wifi modes

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wifi modes

Nick Guenther
Why do only certain wireless cards support host AP mode or IBSS mode?
Is the 'modality' hardwired into the wifi hardware?

For the archives (since I couldn't find anything on this), the drivers
that support being wireless routers (Host AP mode) are:
acs(4), ath(4), pgt(4), ral(4), rtw(4), rum(4), ural(4) and wi(4)

Drivers that support joining ad-hoc networks:
acx(4), an(4), ath(4), atu(4), atw(4), ipw(4), iwi(4), pgt(4), ral(4),
ray(4), rtw(4), rum(4), ural(4), urtw(4), wi(4)

Drivers that can be ad-hoc "masters" (is this still correct or are
ad-hoc masters outdated?):
wi(4)

(zyd(4) says the chip has the ability to do ad-hoc but "more work is
required", and googling
(http://mirror.hamakor.org.il/archives/linux-il/11-2005/18095.html)
suggests it can be an access point too)

Thank you in advance
-Nick

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Re: wifi modes

Theo de Raadt
> Why do only certain wireless cards support host AP mode or IBSS mode?

Because someone has to _want_ to do the work.

I understand not everyone can do the work, but why bother making lists.

It isn't going to encourage anyone to want to.

Why don't you all see that?

We are not your slaves.

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Re: wifi modes

Nick Guenther
Apologies. By now of course I see *that*. But so it's just a software
issue then: that's the answer I was hoping for! It means there's
nothing inherently wrong with my hardware, I can make it work if I
just put the effort in (and find the time to learn).

Thanks
-Nick

On 28/04/2009, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Why do only certain wireless cards support host AP mode or IBSS mode?
>
> Because someone has to _want_ to do the work.
>
> I understand not everyone can do the work, but why bother making lists.
>
> It isn't going to encourage anyone to want to.
>
> Why don't you all see that?
>
> We are not your slaves.

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Re: wifi modes

Claudio Jeker
In reply to this post by Nick Guenther
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 05:47:20PM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote:

> Why do only certain wireless cards support host AP mode or IBSS mode?
> Is the 'modality' hardwired into the wifi hardware?
>
> For the archives (since I couldn't find anything on this), the drivers
> that support being wireless routers (Host AP mode) are:
> acs(4), ath(4), pgt(4), ral(4), rtw(4), rum(4), ural(4) and wi(4)
>
> Drivers that support joining ad-hoc networks:
> acx(4), an(4), ath(4), atu(4), atw(4), ipw(4), iwi(4), pgt(4), ral(4),
> ray(4), rtw(4), rum(4), ural(4), urtw(4), wi(4)
>
> Drivers that can be ad-hoc "masters" (is this still correct or are
> ad-hoc masters outdated?):
> wi(4)
>
> (zyd(4) says the chip has the ability to do ad-hoc but "more work is
> required", and googling
> (http://mirror.hamakor.org.il/archives/linux-il/11-2005/18095.html)
> suggests it can be an access point too)
>

The list is not correct. acx(4) is quite fine in host-ap mode (I guess
acs(4) is a typo in the first list).
Being not able to do host-ap mode on wifi cards are either HW limitations
or documentation limitation. So not much we can do about it.

--
:wq Claudio

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Re: wifi modes

Nick Guenther
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 1:27 AM, Claudio Jeker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 05:47:20PM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote:
>> Why do only certain wireless cards support host AP mode or IBSS mode?
>> Is the 'modality' hardwired into the wifi hardware?
>>
>> For the archives (since I couldn't find anything on this), the drivers
>> that support being wireless routers (Host AP mode) are:
>> acs(4), ath(4), pgt(4), ral(4), rtw(4), rum(4), ural(4) and wi(4)
>>
>> Drivers that support joining ad-hoc networks:
>> acx(4), an(4), ath(4), atu(4), atw(4), ipw(4), iwi(4), pgt(4), ral(4),
>> ray(4), rtw(4), rum(4), ural(4), urtw(4), wi(4)
>>
>> Drivers that can be ad-hoc "masters" (is this still correct or are
>> ad-hoc masters outdated?):
>> wi(4)
>>
>> (zyd(4) says the chip has the ability to do ad-hoc but "more work is
>> required", and googling
>> (http://mirror.hamakor.org.il/archives/linux-il/11-2005/18095.html)
>> suggests it can be an access point too)
>>
>
> The list is not correct. acx(4) is quite fine in host-ap mode (I guess
> acs(4) is a typo in the first list).
> Being not able to do host-ap mode on wifi cards are either HW limitations
> or documentation limitation. So not much we can do about it.
>

Oh yeah, I meant acx, oops. These newfangled qwerty keyboards, you know...

So that's two answers. So is AP mode a hardware-level thing or what?
Or is it that certain firmware/chipsets implement it themselves and
only allow the driver to activate it (or rather, don't, in most
cases). Does the same apply or not apply to ad hoc mode?

Thank you!
-Nick

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Re: wifi modes

Claudio Jeker
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 02:12:29AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 1:27 AM, Claudio Jeker <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 05:47:20PM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote:
> >> Why do only certain wireless cards support host AP mode or IBSS mode?
> >> Is the 'modality' hardwired into the wifi hardware?
> >>
> >> For the archives (since I couldn't find anything on this), the drivers
> >> that support being wireless routers (Host AP mode) are:
> >> acs(4), ath(4), pgt(4), ral(4), rtw(4), rum(4), ural(4) and wi(4)
> >>
> >> Drivers that support joining ad-hoc networks:
> >> acx(4), an(4), ath(4), atu(4), atw(4), ipw(4), iwi(4), pgt(4), ral(4),
> >> ray(4), rtw(4), rum(4), ural(4), urtw(4), wi(4)
> >>
> >> Drivers that can be ad-hoc "masters" (is this still correct or are
> >> ad-hoc masters outdated?):
> >> wi(4)
> >>
> >> (zyd(4) says the chip has the ability to do ad-hoc but "more work is
> >> required", and googling
> >> (http://mirror.hamakor.org.il/archives/linux-il/11-2005/18095.html)
> >> suggests it can be an access point too)
> >>
> >
> > The list is not correct. acx(4) is quite fine in host-ap mode (I guess
> > acs(4) is a typo in the first list).
> > Being not able to do host-ap mode on wifi cards are either HW limitations
> > or documentation limitation. So not much we can do about it.
> >
>
> Oh yeah, I meant acx, oops. These newfangled qwerty keyboards, you know...
>
> So that's two answers. So is AP mode a hardware-level thing or what?
> Or is it that certain firmware/chipsets implement it themselves and
> only allow the driver to activate it (or rather, don't, in most
> cases). Does the same apply or not apply to ad hoc mode?
>

host-ap mode needs to be able to send out some very specific messages
that are not needed for normal client operation. If the HW/firmware or
whatever does not support us to generate these packets the card will not
support host-ap mode. Some drivers support host-ap mode even though the
HW is actually not capable of being a real AP because some parts of the
spec can not be satisfied (stuff like power saving mode for example).
While it works somewhat it fails to be spec conformant.

--
:wq Claudio

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Re: wifi modes

Nick Guenther
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 2:46 AM, Claudio Jeker <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> host-ap mode needs to be able to send out some very specific messages
> that are not needed for normal client operation. If the HW/firmware or
> whatever does not support us to generate these packets the card will not
> support host-ap mode. Some drivers support host-ap mode even though the
> HW is actually not capable of being a real AP because some parts of the
> spec can not be satisfied (stuff like power saving mode for example).
> While it works somewhat it fails to be spec conformant.
>

Thank you very kindly for the explanation. I really mean that.

-Nick