they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

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they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

akonsu
hello,

i read somewhere that openbsd is not as scalable as other OS. this atricle,
for example.  http://www.serverwatch.com/sreviews/article.php/3415651
but the reviews and benchmarks that i could find are about two years old or
so. does anyone know whether performance has improved since? i am asking
this question just for educational purposes.

thanks
konstantin

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

Aaron Glenn
On 5/25/06, akonsu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> hello,
>
> i read somewhere that openbsd is not as scalable as other OS. this atricle,
> for example.  http://www.serverwatch.com/sreviews/article.php/3415651
> but the reviews and benchmarks that i could find are about two years old or
> so. does anyone know whether performance has improved since? i am asking
> this question just for educational purposes.
>
> thanks
> konstantin

A quick look at the changelog between 3.5 and 3.9 would hopefully
sufficiently answer your question.

aaron.glenn

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

Eric Furman-3
In reply to this post by akonsu
On Thu, 25 May 2006 13:53:26 -0700, "akonsu" <[hidden email]> said:
> hello,
>
> i read somewhere that openbsd is not as scalable as other OS. this
> atricle,
> for example.  http://www.serverwatch.com/sreviews/article.php/3415651
> but the reviews and benchmarks that i could find are about two years old
> or
> so. does anyone know whether performance has improved since? i am asking
> this question just for educational purposes.

This sentence should shoot up warning flags.

"This means that even details as mundane as user passwords are encrypted
using heavy duty algorithms."

Since when did user's passwords become mundane data unworthy of strong
protection?
Let the Flames shoot forth. :-)
--
  Eric Furman
  [hidden email]

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

Adam-29
In reply to this post by akonsu
On Thu, 25 May 2006 13:53:26 -0700 akonsu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> hello,
>
> i read somewhere that openbsd is not as scalable as other OS.

Right.

> so. does anyone know whether performance has improved since?

What does performance have to do with it?  You asked about scalability.
OpenBSD performs well enough for most stuff, and scales well enough
for most stuff.  If you are doing something that falls outside the
realm of "most stuff" then you should test it out and see if its gonna
work out for you or not.

Adam

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

Nick Guenther
In reply to this post by Eric Furman-3
On 5/25/06, Eric Furman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, 25 May 2006 13:53:26 -0700, "akonsu" <[hidden email]> said:
> > hello,
> >
> > i read somewhere that openbsd is not as scalable as other OS. this
> > atricle,
> > for example.  http://www.serverwatch.com/sreviews/article.php/3415651
> > but the reviews and benchmarks that i could find are about two years old
> > or
> > so. does anyone know whether performance has improved since? i am asking
> > this question just for educational purposes.
>
> This sentence should shoot up warning flags.
>
> "This means that even details as mundane as user passwords are encrypted
> using heavy duty algorithms."
>
> Since when did user's passwords become mundane data unworthy of strong
> protection?
>

Also "From the beginning, every line of code has been continually
audited for flaws and vulnerabilities (this is an ongoing process
since hackers are always developing new techniques)"

It's not that 'hackers' are making new techniques as much as
developers are making new bugs.

-Nick

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

beck-7
In reply to this post by akonsu
> i read somewhere that openbsd is not as scalable as other OS. this atricle,
> for example.  http://www.serverwatch.com/sreviews/article.php/3415651

        I read somewhere that Windows was more Scalable tha linux too.
I'm sure you should go run that.

        -Bob

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

Karsten McMinn
In reply to this post by Nick Guenther
On 5/25/06, Nick Guenther <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Also "From the beginning, every line of code has been continually
> audited for flaws and vulnerabilities (this is an ongoing process
> since hackers are always developing new techniques)"
>
> It's not that 'hackers' are making new techniques as much as
> developers are making new bugs.

Also "To get to the heart of the matter, OpenBSD is not an
operating system heavy on hand-holding and "wizards."

if (manpages+codedoc+faqs+archives+misc != handholding) then
 $handholding = breastfeeding
endif

last time I checked our wizards were busy coding/writing.

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

Antonios Anastasiadis
As a matter of fact, yes, Linux and FreeBSD are indeed more "scalable"
and usually faster in heavy workloads that involve databases, heavy
input/output loads etc in multiprocessor systems.
However, the question here is:
Are you willing to sacrifice OpenBSD's security and correctness to get
the SMP scalability these other OSes offer?
Do *you* really need all that stuff, or want to run it because it
"should be faster"?
Just test your application and see if you really need the extra performance.
Speaking for myself, I am happily willing to sacrifice a bit of
performance for everything else OpenBSD does right.

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

akonsu
In reply to this post by beck-7
thank you for telling me what i should do. this makes life much easier.

2006/5/25, Bob Beck <[hidden email]>:
>
> > i read somewhere that openbsd is not as scalable as other OS. this
> atricle,
> > for example.  http://www.serverwatch.com/sreviews/article.php/3415651
>
>        I read somewhere that Windows was more Scalable tha linux too.
> I'm sure you should go run that.
>
>        -Bob

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

Gustavo Rios
In reply to this post by Antonios Anastasiadis
What we need to keep in mind, is that techincally, just because we
keep our mind in security for the first concern, it should not take as
an excuse for delivering slow processing.

Sacrifice correctness for speed is completing nonsense. I cannot even
try to understand it: what is the value of a program processing tasks
fast and devilering wrong results.

So, the next time some justify openbsd being less faster than X, or
even Y because of its security oriented models, i wonder that's the
real motivation behind the scenes.

One good example, the the qmail, extremely fast and secure. So, secure
is not a trade off for speed.


Just my opnions so far.

On 5/25/06, Antonios Anastasiadis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> As a matter of fact, yes, Linux and FreeBSD are indeed more "scalable"
> and usually faster in heavy workloads that involve databases, heavy
> input/output loads etc in multiprocessor systems.
> However, the question here is:
> Are you willing to sacrifice OpenBSD's security and correctness to get
> the SMP scalability these other OSes offer?
> Do *you* really need all that stuff, or want to run it because it
> "should be faster"?
> Just test your application and see if you really need the extra performance.
> Speaking for myself, I am happily willing to sacrifice a bit of
> performance for everything else OpenBSD does right.

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

Rico Secada
In reply to this post by akonsu
Hi

> so. does anyone know whether performance has improved since? i am asking
> this question just for educational purposes.
>
> thanks
> konstantin

Your question is purely hypothetical!

"Does anyone know whether performance has improved since?", since when?
Compared to what? Running what services? Doing what? On what platform?
On what hardware?

If you where serious about this question and really wanted to know and
understand the issue, educational or otherwise, you would do the tests
you need to do, to answer your question.

Best and kind regards,
Rico.

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

Henning Brauer
In reply to this post by akonsu
* akonsu <[hidden email]> [2006-05-25 23:02]:
> i read somewhere that openbsd is not as scalable as other OS.

nonsense.
depends heavily on what exactly you are going to do.
in soem cases, we blow away everybody else easily.
in same cases, others are faster.
in some cases, others crash faster :)

what I am really saying is: it depends. On about 1 million factors.

--
BS Web Services, http://www.bsws.de/
OpenBSD-based Webhosting, Mail Services, Managed Servers, ...
Unix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity.
(Dennis Ritchie)

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

Reid Nichol
In reply to this post by Gustavo Rios
--- Gustavo Rios <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What we need to keep in mind, is that techincally, just because we
> keep our mind in security for the first concern, it should not take
> as an excuse for delivering slow processing.
>
> Sacrifice correctness for speed is completing nonsense. I cannot even
> try to understand it: what is the value of a program processing tasks
> fast and devilering wrong results.
>
> So, the next time some justify openbsd being less faster than X, or
> even Y because of its security oriented models, i wonder that's the
> real motivation behind the scenes.
>
> One good example, the the qmail, extremely fast and secure. So,
> secure is not a trade off for speed.
>
>
> Just my opnions so far.

It's not an excuse, it's a matter of how correctness is done.  As in,
things must be properly error checked, etc.  This requires more
processing time.  So, speed /is/ a sacrific of correctness.

Qmail is "fast" compared to what, sendmail?  That bloated piece of
software with config files the technical equivalent to black voodoo
magic?

I'd attribute the faster qmail to a leaner program.


best regards,
Reid Nichol

President Bush says:

War Is Peace
Freedom Is Slavery
Ignorance Is Strength
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com 

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

Gustavo Rios
In reply to this post by akonsu
There some things in life i do really enjoy playing with. I like
programming and related things, right now i am working on a series of
programs for replacing traditional unix tools, dues to security,
performance and even license concerns. I believe i will have
everything done in the end of the up starting week.

All the best.

On 5/25/06, akonsu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> thank you for telling me what i should do. this makes life much easier.
>
> 2006/5/25, Bob Beck <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > > i read somewhere that openbsd is not as scalable as other OS. this
> > atricle,
> > > for example.  http://www.serverwatch.com/sreviews/article.php/3415651
> >
> >        I read somewhere that Windows was more Scalable tha linux too.
> > I'm sure you should go run that.
> >
> >        -Bob

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

Julian Bolivar
In reply to this post by Reid Nichol
Hello everybody,

For example I'm installing an OpenBSD box to perform a text file
processing, and are 8 files, 1GB each one, every hour; my AWK script
worked well in Linux and Solaris and realy I think that it will work
fine in OpenBSD too.

I will tell you the results.

Regards,

Julian

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

Gustavo Rios
In reply to this post by akonsu
You are welcome!

PS: I am payed to maked others life simple, and in general the simpler
the life the more expensive the bill gets.

On 5/25/06, akonsu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> thank you for telling me what i should do. this makes life much easier.
>
> 2006/5/25, Bob Beck <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > > i read somewhere that openbsd is not as scalable as other OS. this
> > atricle,
> > > for example.  http://www.serverwatch.com/sreviews/article.php/3415651
> >
> >        I read somewhere that Windows was more Scalable tha linux too.
> > I'm sure you should go run that.
> >
> >        -Bob

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

fuzzyping
In reply to this post by akonsu
On May 25, 2006, at 4:53 PM, akonsu wrote:

> hello,
>
> i read somewhere that openbsd is not as scalable as other OS. this  
> atricle,
> for example.  http://www.serverwatch.com/sreviews/article.php/3415651
> but the reviews and benchmarks that i could find are about two  
> years old or
> so. does anyone know whether performance has improved since? i am  
> asking
> this question just for educational purposes.

Instead of wasting your time with the question and everyone else's  
time suffering it, JUST TRY THE OS.  If it meets your scalability/
performance needs, GREAT!  If it doesn't, find something else that  
does.  What is the point of making generalizations about OpenBSD vs  
Linux vs Solaris vs Windows?  Particularly when this is for  
"educational purposes".

Learn the UNIX mantra - "right tool for the job".  OpenBSD is either  
the right tool for your task, or it isn't.

P.S.  Sorry for flying off the handle, but as an engineer, I have a  
difficult time when people ask obtuse questions that fail to focus on  
their real-life applications.

--
Jason Dixon
DixonGroup Consulting
http://www.dixongroup.net

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

Adam-29
In reply to this post by Henning Brauer
On Fri, 26 May 2006 03:01:36 +0200 Henning Brauer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> * akonsu <[hidden email]> [2006-05-25 23:02]:
> > i read somewhere that openbsd is not as scalable as other OS.
>
> nonsense.
> depends heavily on what exactly you are going to do.
> in soem cases, we blow away everybody else easily.

What cases are those?

Adam

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

Matthias Kilian
On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 05:48:46PM -0400, Adam wrote:
> > in soem cases, we blow away everybody else easily.
>
> What cases are those?

PF and spamd, for example. bgpd may be a good candidate, too.

Ciao,
        Kili

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Re: they say openbsd is not as scalable as others

Adam-29
On Sat, 27 May 2006 00:18:03 +0200 Matthias Kilian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 05:48:46PM -0400, Adam wrote:
> > > in soem cases, we blow away everybody else easily.
> >
> > What cases are those?
>
> PF and spamd, for example. bgpd may be a good candidate, too.

Those scale better on openbsd than they do on freebsd and netbsd?  Have
you actually tested this?

Adam

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