[semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

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[semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

ropers
I'm looking for a colour laser printer that's so cheap that I can put
it on my birthday wish list and stand a chance of getting it (too
broke to buy one myself).

- The printer should work with OpenBSD without a hitch, and by that I
don't mean "can sometimes be gotten to work by endlessly tweaking
CUPS", and I also don't mean "can be gotten to work with compat_linux
and a binary blob",
- the printer should also be Linux-compatible (Windows-compatibility
not required),
- it should be a colour laser printer,
- replacement cartridges shouldn't be prohibitively expensive,
- and it should be as cheap as possible without totally sucking monkey balls.**

Oh, and I have an aversion to HP, so it would be better if it wasn't from them.

All-in-one stuff and similar shenanigans aren't important at all. In
fact, I'd prefer it if the device didn't offer that, as BSD/Linux
support of such features tends to be spotty.
I looked at http://openbsd.org/i386.html#hardware and didn't see any
printers mentioned there, though I suppose they sort of fall under
RJ45 support or ulpt(4)
http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=ulpt&sektion=4 and the
rest is lpd/CUPS? If a printer is supported by CUPS/Linux, will it
work on OpenBSD? Sorry for the daft questions, but a cursory Google
search didn't reveal much. I found this:
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2004/07/08/FreeBSD_Basics.html and
this: http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi , but while it offers
good info on specific printers, entering requirements such as
"blob-free" and "colour laser" and then searching for a list of
suitable models doesn't seem to be possible there.

If anyone could recommend anything, or even warn me against buying
certain models, I'd be very grateful.

Thanks and regards,
--ropers

**My current inkjet printer takes well over a minute to print a single
page, so my definition of "not totally sucking monkey balls" is
actually quite modest.

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

Marc Balmer-2
Am 05.04.2009 um 19:44 schrieb ropers:

> I'm looking for a colour laser printer that's so cheap that I can put
> it on my birthday wish list and stand a chance of getting it (too
> broke to buy one myself).
>
> - The printer should work with OpenBSD without a hitch, and by that I
> don't mean "can sometimes be gotten to work by endlessly tweaking
> CUPS", and I also don't mean "can be gotten to work with compat_linux
> and a binary blob",
> - the printer should also be Linux-compatible (Windows-compatibility
> not required),
> - it should be a colour laser printer,
> - replacement cartridges shouldn't be prohibitively expensive,
> - and it should be as cheap as possible without totally sucking  
> monkey balls.**
>
> Oh, and I have an aversion to HP, so it would be better if it wasn't  
> from them.

we use some quite cheap HP printers with OpenBSD.  Since you have an  
aversion
to HP, I did not look up the number.

They work nicely with LaTeX and cost in the $300-400 range I've been  
told.

>
> All-in-one stuff and similar shenanigans aren't important at all. In
> fact, I'd prefer it if the device didn't offer that, as BSD/Linux
> support of such features tends to be spotty.
> I looked at http://openbsd.org/i386.html#hardware and didn't see any
> printers mentioned there, though I suppose they sort of fall under
> RJ45 support or ulpt(4)
> http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=ulpt&sektion=4 and the
> rest is lpd/CUPS? If a printer is supported by CUPS/Linux, will it
> work on OpenBSD? Sorry for the daft questions, but a cursory Google
> search didn't reveal much. I found this:
> http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2004/07/08/FreeBSD_Basics.html and
> this: http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi , but while it offers
> good info on specific printers, entering requirements such as
> "blob-free" and "colour laser" and then searching for a list of
> suitable models doesn't seem to be possible there.
>
> If anyone could recommend anything, or even warn me against buying
> certain models, I'd be very grateful.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> --ropers
>
> **My current inkjet printer takes well over a minute to print a single
> page, so my definition of "not totally sucking monkey balls" is
> actually quite modest.

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

STeve Andre'
On Sunday 05 April 2009 14:02:39 Marc Balmer wrote:

> Am 05.04.2009 um 19:44 schrieb ropers:
> > I'm looking for a colour laser printer that's so cheap that I can put
> > it on my birthday wish list and stand a chance of getting it (too
> > broke to buy one myself).
> >
> > - The printer should work with OpenBSD without a hitch, and by that I
> > don't mean "can sometimes be gotten to work by endlessly tweaking
> > CUPS", and I also don't mean "can be gotten to work with compat_linux
> > and a binary blob",
> > - the printer should also be Linux-compatible (Windows-compatibility
> > not required),
> > - it should be a colour laser printer,
> > - replacement cartridges shouldn't be prohibitively expensive,
> > - and it should be as cheap as possible without totally sucking
> > monkey balls.**
> >
> > Oh, and I have an aversion to HP, so it would be better if it wasn't
> > from them.
>
> we use some quite cheap HP printers with OpenBSD.  Since you have an
> aversion
> to HP, I did not look up the number.
>
> They work nicely with LaTeX and cost in the $300-400 range I've been
> told.

Marc, I'd appreciate the model number(s) of the HP printers.  I'm getting
ready to make some dual-boot systems, and these folks all want printers.

Seems that this might make a good faq entry, if it isn't already there(?).

Thanks,

--STeve Andre'

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

Eric Jacquot-2
In reply to this post by ropers
Hi Ropers,

Le Sun, 5 Apr 2009 19:44:27 +0200,
ropers <[hidden email]> a icrit :

> I'm looking for a colour laser printer that's so cheap that I can put
> it on my birthday wish list and stand a chance of getting it (too
> broke to buy one myself).
>
> - The printer should work with OpenBSD without a hitch, and by that I
> don't mean "can sometimes be gotten to work by endlessly tweaking
> CUPS", and I also don't mean "can be gotten to work with compat_linux
> and a binary blob",
> - the printer should also be Linux-compatible (Windows-compatibility
> not required),
> - it should be a colour laser printer,
> - replacement cartridges shouldn't be prohibitively expensive,
> - and it should be as cheap as possible without totally sucking
> monkey balls.**
>
> Oh, and I have an aversion to HP, so it would be better if it wasn't
> from them.

So am I ;)

I use personnaly a Xerox Phaser 6130N (tested and work very good since
I bought it with openbsd 4.2, and working as a usb local printer like
as a network printers with its embbedded network interface). No blob,
just a ppd file provided on Xerox Site (like all others models) and It
just works good with a great quality printing. Everything but the good
model depends of your monthly printing.

But it'd been just my humble opinion, I just love Xerox ;) because i
can't find at this time a printer from them without a ppd file provided
on their site.

My goal has been just printing... Not fax nor scan... I don't like
all-in-one...

Kind regards,

--
Eric

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

Martin Schröder
In reply to this post by ropers
2009/4/5, ropers <[hidden email]>:
>  - The printer should work with OpenBSD without a hitch, and by that I
>  don't mean "can sometimes be gotten to work by endlessly tweaking
>  CUPS", and I also don't mean "can be gotten to work with compat_linux
>  and a binary blob",

Get one with PostScript and a NIC.

Best
   Martin

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

bofh-6
In reply to this post by ropers
Depends on definition of cheap, but I quite like the brother 5250DN,
black and white.and fast, duplex, network for $200-$250.  I hear their
color cousins are just as good.  From $300+ to $500 depending on
model.  And the cartridges apparently can run on fumes (30k or 70k
pages for mine, forgot which).

Small, cheap, fast, good, the 5250DN is probably one of the best home
printers.  Uses "brotherscipt" instead of true postscript, but I've
never run into problems.

On 4/5/09, ropers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm looking for a colour laser printer that's so cheap that I can put
> it on my birthday wish list and stand a chance of getting it (too
> broke to buy one myself).
>
> - The printer should work with OpenBSD without a hitch, and by that I
> don't mean "can sometimes be gotten to work by endlessly tweaking
> CUPS", and I also don't mean "can be gotten to work with compat_linux
> and a binary blob",
> - the printer should also be Linux-compatible (Windows-compatibility
> not required),
> - it should be a colour laser printer,
> - replacement cartridges shouldn't be prohibitively expensive,
> - and it should be as cheap as possible without totally sucking monkey
> balls.**
>
> Oh, and I have an aversion to HP, so it would be better if it wasn't from
> them.
>
> All-in-one stuff and similar shenanigans aren't important at all. In
> fact, I'd prefer it if the device didn't offer that, as BSD/Linux
> support of such features tends to be spotty.
> I looked at http://openbsd.org/i386.html#hardware and didn't see any
> printers mentioned there, though I suppose they sort of fall under
> RJ45 support or ulpt(4)
> http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=ulpt&sektion=4 and the
> rest is lpd/CUPS? If a printer is supported by CUPS/Linux, will it
> work on OpenBSD? Sorry for the daft questions, but a cursory Google
> search didn't reveal much. I found this:
> http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2004/07/08/FreeBSD_Basics.html and
> this: http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi , but while it offers
> good info on specific printers, entering requirements such as
> "blob-free" and "colour laser" and then searching for a list of
> suitable models doesn't seem to be possible there.
>
> If anyone could recommend anything, or even warn me against buying
> certain models, I'd be very grateful.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> --ropers
>
> **My current inkjet printer takes well over a minute to print a single
> page, so my definition of "not totally sucking monkey balls" is
> actually quite modest.
>
>

--
Sent from my mobile device

http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
"This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity."
-- Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation.
"Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or
internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks
factory where smoking on the job is permitted."  -- Gene Spafford
learn french:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0&feature=related

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

System Administrator-39
In reply to this post by ropers
CUPS and Linux/Windows blobs are so often required because printers
have gone the way of the modems -- i.e. minimal intelligence in the
device with most of the processing happening on the host. If you stick
to real "hardware" printers that provide built-in Postscript (or at
least PCL) language and fonts, you will have no problems with OpenBSD.
The simple litmus test is "does it work in DOS?" (just like a modem;-)
BTW, most USB-only printers are of the dumb "Windoze" variety.

Beware of laser printers with ultra-cheap "cartridges" (e.g. Brother)
which do not contain all of the consumables -- before you know it you
will be shelling the cost of the printer to service the developer drum.
OTOH, the integrated cartridges (e.g. HP and Lexmark) typically cost a
bit more but the printer should not require anything additional for its
multi-year life.

For the longest time I used to be a fan of HP, although I have also
always liked Lexmark. But now my preference is shifting -- HP's lower
priced models are almost all of the host-based variety. Also I recently
learned from a reseller that HP's cartridges include a page counter and
stop operating at the prescribed number of pages regardless of actual
utilization, which is in stark contrast to Lexmark whose cartridges are
guaranteed for "at least" a certain number of pages and the company
will replace it free of charge if it runs out sooner but does not
prevent you using it past that many pages.

On 5 Apr 2009 at 19:44, ropers wrote:

> I'm looking for a colour laser printer that's so cheap that I can
> put it on my birthday wish list and stand a chance of getting it (too
> broke to buy one myself).
>
> - The printer should work with OpenBSD without a hitch, and by that
> I don't mean "can sometimes be gotten to work by endlessly tweaking
> CUPS", and I also don't mean "can be gotten to work with compat_linux
> and a binary blob",
> - the printer should also be Linux-compatible (Windows-compatibility
> not required),
> - it should be a colour laser printer,
> - replacement cartridges shouldn't be prohibitively expensive,
> - and it should be as cheap as possible without totally sucking monkey
> balls.**
>
> Oh, and I have an aversion to HP, so it would be better if it wasn't
> from them.
>
> All-in-one stuff and similar shenanigans aren't important at all. In
> fact, I'd prefer it if the device didn't offer that, as BSD/Linux
> support of such features tends to be spotty.
> I looked at http://openbsd.org/i386.html#hardware and didn't see any
> printers mentioned there, though I suppose they sort of fall under
> RJ45 support or ulpt(4)
> http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=ulpt&sektion=4 and the
> rest is lpd/CUPS? If a printer is supported by CUPS/Linux, will it
> work on OpenBSD? Sorry for the daft questions, but a cursory Google
> search didn't reveal much. I found this:
> http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2004/07/08/FreeBSD_Basics.html and
> this: http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi , but while it offers
> good info on specific printers, entering requirements such as
> "blob-free" and "colour laser" and then searching for a list of
> suitable models doesn't seem to be possible there.
>
> If anyone could recommend anything, or even warn me against buying
> certain models, I'd be very grateful.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> --ropers
>
> **My current inkjet printer takes well over a minute to print a
> single page, so my definition of "not totally sucking monkey balls" is
> actually quite modest.

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

marrandy (Bugzilla)
In reply to this post by STeve Andre'
On Sunday 05 April 2009 14:11:24 STeve Andre' wrote:
> On Sunday 05 April 2009 14:02:39 Marc Balmer wrote:
> > Am 05.04.2009 um 19:44 schrieb ropers:

> >
> > we use some quite cheap HP printers with OpenBSD.  Since you have an
> > aversion
> > to HP, I did not look up the number.
> >
> > They work nicely with LaTeX and cost in the $300-400 range I've been
> > told.
>
> Marc, I'd appreciate the model number(s) of the HP printers.  I'm getting
> ready to make some dual-boot systems, and these folks all want printers.
>
> Seems that this might make a good faq entry, if it isn't already there(?).
>
> Thanks,
>
> --STeve Andre'

HP have been actively working on drivers for a decade.

All the one's I have ever tried on Linux have worked fine.

I had a HP-Office Jet Rx40i and now a HP color laserjet 2840.

I use/d them for printing, scanning and now faxing.

They work great.

Install the HPLIP Device Manager.

You can find printer support info on HP's here.

http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/index.html

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

Alexander Hall
In reply to this post by ropers
ropers wrote:
> I'm looking for a colour laser printer that's so cheap that I can put
> it on my birthday wish list and stand a chance of getting it (too
> broke to buy one myself).

...

> Oh, and I have an aversion to HP, so it would be better if it wasn't from them.

Hrm, well, anyway...

Our "HP Color LaserJet CP1515n" supports postscript over TCP/IP in a few
ways, including lpd and as a simple tcp stream over port 999. lpd was
all we needed for OpenBSD and of course windows printing is no problem.
I cannot imagine printing from any unix os well be a problem eother. You
might want to look it up. Its likely not the cheapest but it is
definitely not the most expensive either. There may be newer models
available by now too.

I have no idea what the cartridges etc cost. We do not print enough for
me to case about that.

"Installing" on OpenBSD means trivial changes to /etc/printcap

Using a network connected printer with PS support really made me happy
after years of fighting with cheap crappy inkjets.

/Alexander

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

Toni Mueller-10
In reply to this post by System Administrator-39
Hi,

On Sun, 05.04.2009 at 15:24:09 -0400, System Administrator <[hidden email]> wrote:
> device with most of the processing happening on the host. If you stick
> to real "hardware" printers that provide built-in Postscript (or at
> least PCL) language and fonts, you will have no problems with OpenBSD.

these will imho easily bust a small budget, but are also the only
viable choice if you intend to keep the device for some time.

> For the longest time I used to be a fan of HP, although I have also
> always liked Lexmark.

I was also a fan of HP printers, especially after having bad experience
with a medium-sized Lexmark printer, due to massive mechanical problems
which looked like "designed-to-break", and very pricey replacement
parts.


> learned from a reseller that HP's cartridges include a page counter and
> stop operating at the prescribed number of pages regardless of actual
> utilization, which is in stark contrast to Lexmark whose cartridges are
> guaranteed for "at least" a certain number of pages and the company
> will replace it free of charge if it runs out sooner but does not
> prevent you using it past that many pages.

The page count mechanisms seem to be very common in many printers'
cartridges, esp. in the lower price range. Try to ask your dealer about
page counters in other printers' cartridges. I guess that you'll find
them in more than half the models across the board.


> On 5 Apr 2009 at 19:44, ropers wrote:
> > I'm looking for a colour laser printer that's so cheap that I can

I don't know what exactly you want to do, but you might be interested
in reading some reports about the printing quality and operating cost,
too. Eg. a good ink jet printer should deliver better quality printouts
than a bad laser printer. If all you're doing is printing a few easy
charts from your spread sheet, then this may be irrelevant to you.


Kind regards,
--Toni++

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

ropers
2009/4/6 Toni Mueller <[hidden email]>:
>
> I don't know what exactly you want to do, but you might be interested
> in reading some reports about the printing quality and operating cost,
> too. Eg. a good ink jet printer should deliver better quality printouts
> than a bad laser printer.

I do positively, affirmatively, definitely want a laser printer. ;)

Because:
(a), I already have a (dead slow and old but portable) ink jet printer,
(b), ink jet printers are more likely to go into the direction of
weird binary blob printer drivers with neither built-in postscript,
nor good ghostscript/driver support, and
(c), an ink jet printer cannot do this: http://www.riccibitti.com/pcb/pcb.htm

regards,
--ropers

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

Jussi Peltola
On Mon, Apr 06, 2009 at 11:37:30AM +0200, ropers wrote:
> (c), an ink jet printer cannot do this: http://www.riccibitti.com/pcb/pcb.htm
 
However, inkjets seem to be better for printing masks for photo-etching,
but the transparencies are awfully expensive and so is the ink when it
dries out. I got surprisingly good results photo etching with plain
paper and an inkjet, about as good as a LaserJet 2200 and
good transparencies.

For the toner transfer trick it seems to me that LaserJet 3 and 4 work
very well, they print much darker than newer lasers. Haven't tried a
color laser, they might have interesting differences. I wish I could
just put my PCBs through a laser printer and etch away...

--
Jussi Peltola

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

daniel.ramaley (Bugzilla)
In reply to this post by Martin Schröder
On 2009-04-05 at 13:26:54, Martin Schrvder wrote:
>2009/4/5, ropers <[hidden email]>:
>>  - The printer should work with OpenBSD without a hitch, and by that
>> I don't mean "can sometimes be gotten to work by endlessly tweaking
>> CUPS", and I also don't mean "can be gotten to work with
>> compat_linux and a binary blob",
>
>Get one with PostScript and a NIC.

In my experience, that is the correct answer. At various times in the
past i've tried to get non-PostScript printers working with different
Unix-like operating systems (including OpenBSD). Unless your time is
very cheap, it is usually better just to buy something with PostScript.
And if it has built-in networking, even better. Buying a printer with a
NIC is easier than setting up printer sharing on a computer.

As for the original poster's HP aversion... i've had good luck with HP.
At home i use an HP 2605dn, a duplexing color laser printer that has
worked beautifully for my light use. That exact model is probably no
longer available since HP regularly rotates their consumer models, but
they undoubtedly have something similar today.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake University
Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
+1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

Aaron Poffenberger
Daniel A. Ramaley wrote:

> On 2009-04-05 at 13:26:54, Martin Schrvder wrote:
>  
>> 2009/4/5, ropers <[hidden email]>:
>>    
>>>  - The printer should work with OpenBSD without a hitch, and by that
>>> I don't mean "can sometimes be gotten to work by endlessly tweaking
>>> CUPS", and I also don't mean "can be gotten to work with
>>> compat_linux and a binary blob",
>>>      
>> Get one with PostScript and a NIC.
>>    
>
> In my experience, that is the correct answer. At various times in the
> past i've tried to get non-PostScript printers working with different
> Unix-like operating systems (including OpenBSD). Unless your time is
> very cheap, it is usually better just to buy something with PostScript.
> And if it has built-in networking, even better. Buying a printer with a
> NIC is easier than setting up printer sharing on a computer.
>
> As for the original poster's HP aversion... i've had good luck with HP.
> At home i use an HP 2605dn, a duplexing color laser printer that has
> worked beautifully for my light use. That exact model is probably no
> longer available since HP regularly rotates their consumer models, but
> they undoubtedly have something similar today.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake University
> Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
> +1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA
>
>  
I specifically went with HP after doing my research and can second Dan's
recommendation of the HP's 2605dn. I have the same printer and did
nothing more than setup a printcap entry for it to be the default
printer and it just works. I really like the fact that it has a
web-management console that lets me configure anything available from
the Mac & Windows desktop app. I also like that on both Mac & PC you can
opt to install just a print driver without the management crap. Some
printers require desktop-software running in the background in order to
use the printer. This one doesn't.

All-in-all, a nice printer.

--Aaron

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

Graham Allan
In reply to this post by Eric Jacquot-2
On Sun, Apr 05, 2009 at 08:15:54PM +0200, Eric JACQUOT wrote:

> Hi Ropers,
>
> Le Sun, 5 Apr 2009 19:44:27 +0200,
> ropers <[hidden email]> a icrit :
>
> > I'm looking for a colour laser printer that's so cheap that I can put
> > it on my birthday wish list and stand a chance of getting it (too
> > broke to buy one myself).
> >
> > - The printer should work with OpenBSD without a hitch, and by that I
> > don't mean "can sometimes be gotten to work by endlessly tweaking
> > CUPS", and I also don't mean "can be gotten to work with compat_linux
> > and a binary blob",
> > - the printer should also be Linux-compatible (Windows-compatibility
> > not required),
> > - it should be a colour laser printer,
> > - replacement cartridges shouldn't be prohibitively expensive,
> > - and it should be as cheap as possible without totally sucking
> > monkey balls.**
> >
> > Oh, and I have an aversion to HP, so it would be better if it wasn't
> > from them.
>
> So am I ;)
>
> I use personnaly a Xerox Phaser 6130N (tested and work very good since
> I bought it with openbsd 4.2, and working as a usb local printer like
> as a network printers with its embbedded network interface). No blob,
> just a ppd file provided on Xerox Site (like all others models) and It
> just works good with a great quality printing. Everything but the good
> model depends of your monthly printing.
>
> But it'd been just my humble opinion, I just love Xerox ;) because i
> can't find at this time a printer from them without a ppd file provided
> on their site.

Xerox has been good for us too (genuine Postscript helps). The Phaser 6180
has been a good printer, and the successor 6280 looks quite similar.

Graham
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Graham Allan - I.T. Manager
School of Physics and Astronomy - University of Minnesota
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

J.C. Roberts-3
In reply to this post by ropers
On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 11:37:30 +0200 ropers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2009/4/6 Toni Mueller <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > I don't know what exactly you want to do, but you might be
> > interested in reading some reports about the printing quality and
> > operating cost, too. Eg. a good ink jet printer should deliver
> > better quality printouts than a bad laser printer.
>
> I do positively, affirmatively, definitely want a laser printer. ;)
>
> Because:
> (a), I already have a (dead slow and old but portable) ink jet
> printer, (b), ink jet printers are more likely to go into the
> direction of weird binary blob printer drivers with neither built-in
> postscript, nor good ghostscript/driver support, and
> (c), an ink jet printer cannot do this:
> http://www.riccibitti.com/pcb/pcb.htm

For Do-It-Yourself PCB's, you *really* want postscript support. Color
support is not necessary, and you can easily get away with finding a
free, used, office laser printer. As odd as it might seem, some of the
old laser printers are actually "better" in the sense of they were
built to last and you can still get parts for most of them.

Network support is very nice to have, and makes your life a lot easier,
but isn't a show stopper since you can almost always use a small
"print-server" device. I've had *decades* of success with HP LaserJet I,
and LaserJet II-P printers, although I would not suggest the former for
PCB work due to resolution. Yes, I know they're ancient, but they work.

The other two laser printers I have here are only slightly more recent,
namely a Xerox N17 (mono, network, duplexing) and a Tektronix (xerox)
Phaser 750 (color, network duplexing). The latter is a beast and fairly
expensive to run, but it does a good job.

For D-I-Y PCB work, one of the features you might want to look for is
whether or not the printer has a "paper path" for card stock (I'm
not sure what it's called elsewhere in the world, but "card stock" is
basically *very* thick paper like cardboard).

--
J.C. Roberts

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

fuzzyping
On Mon, Apr 06, 2009 at 11:49:28AM -0700, J.C. Roberts wrote:

> On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 11:37:30 +0200 ropers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > 2009/4/6 Toni Mueller <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > I don't know what exactly you want to do, but you might be
> > > interested in reading some reports about the printing quality and
> > > operating cost, too. Eg. a good ink jet printer should deliver
> > > better quality printouts than a bad laser printer.
> >
> > I do positively, affirmatively, definitely want a laser printer. ;)
> >
> > Because:
> > (a), I already have a (dead slow and old but portable) ink jet
> > printer, (b), ink jet printers are more likely to go into the
> > direction of weird binary blob printer drivers with neither built-in
> > postscript, nor good ghostscript/driver support, and
> > (c), an ink jet printer cannot do this:
> > http://www.riccibitti.com/pcb/pcb.htm
>
> For Do-It-Yourself PCB's, you *really* want postscript support. Color
> support is not necessary, and you can easily get away with finding a
> free, used, office laser printer. As odd as it might seem, some of the
> old laser printers are actually "better" in the sense of they were
> built to last and you can still get parts for most of them.
>
> Network support is very nice to have, and makes your life a lot easier,
> but isn't a show stopper since you can almost always use a small
> "print-server" device. I've had *decades* of success with HP LaserJet I,
> and LaserJet II-P printers, although I would not suggest the former for
> PCB work due to resolution. Yes, I know they're ancient, but they work.

If the above is correct (and I believe JCR) then I can highly recommend
the Brother HL-2170W.  It's inexpensive and has worked great for me with
OpenBSD.  Comes with wireless *and* wired networking.

http://www.brother-usa.com/Printer/ModelDetail.aspx?ProductID=hl2170W
 
--
Jason Dixon
DixonGroup Consulting
http://www.dixongroup.net/

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

J.C. Roberts-3
On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:05:14 -0400 Jason Dixon <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> > For Do-It-Yourself PCB's, you *really* want postscript support.
> > Color support is not necessary, and you can easily get away with
> > finding a free, used, office laser printer. As odd as it might
> > seem, some of the old laser printers are actually "better" in the
> > sense of they were built to last and you can still get parts for
> > most of them.
> >
> > Network support is very nice to have, and makes your life a lot
> > easier, but isn't a show stopper since you can almost always use a
> > small "print-server" device. I've had *decades* of success with HP
> > LaserJet I, and LaserJet II-P printers, although I would not
> > suggest the former for PCB work due to resolution. Yes, I know
> > they're ancient, but they work.
>
> If the above is correct (and I believe JCR) then I can highly
> recommend the Brother HL-2170W.  It's inexpensive and has worked
> great for me with OpenBSD.  Comes with wireless *and* wired
> networking.
>
> http://www.brother-usa.com/Printer/ModelDetail.aspx?ProductID=hl2170W

If I am recalling things correctly, the "issue" with the original
LaserJet I (if you could find one) is that without a memory upgrade it
can only do 300dpi across 25-33% of a "letter" sized page. Yes, I know
it seems terribly odd, but that's the way it worked. You sent it a page
at 300dpi, and it would only print the first part of it. If the same
page was sent at 75dpi or 150dpi, the whole page would print.

You will probably never be building extremely high-speed PCB designs in
your garage, so a resolution of 300dpi or better should suffice. Even
the axis-based mixed-resolution printers (i.e. "600x300" Horizonal/Vert)
should work fine.

The things I like about my XEROX DocuPrint N17 are:
1.) 1200 dpi resolution
2.) a paper path for thick card stock
3.) network interface
4.) postscript support (multiple levels)
5.) duplexing
6.) very cheap to run

If the real reason for buying a laser printer is PCB work, then there
are some laser printers with a perfectly straight card-stock paper path
where you can actually run the PCB material directly through the
printer. I've seen them but I can't recall off the top of my head what
brands/models can do this.

You need to realize laser printers are *not* the only way to do PCB's,
and some of the inkjet printers are at least equal if not better for
this task.

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2006/08/how_to_direct_to_pcb_ink_jet_r.html

(MakeZine has a number of other Home-PCB articles)
Some people argue that using inkjets is more accurate than laser
printers since the possible human errors in resist mask alignment are
eliminated. Also, with inkjet printers, you can even do "silkscreens"
of sorts on your home built boards.

        "Fashion Is My Only Conscience" ;-)

Lastly, if you're not in a rush, or if you're working on high-speed
designs, you should talk to your local PCB fabrication house. The silly
part is many of their customers do not use the entire "blank" so your
small design can easily be tossed in an unused corner of the blank and
be manufactured in parallel with orders from other customers. This is
really cheap to do, since without your order, the wasted space on the
blank would be tossed out. The cool part about this is you can get
multi-layer (>2) PCB designs --something you can't do at home-- done
very cheaply if you're patient, as well as get the benefit of DRC
testing, X-RAY analysis, Bed-Of-Nails (aka "clamshell") testing, ...

As long as you can "Tape-Out" your design into a supported format (i.e.
gerber), your local fab house will most likely be *real* friendly since
it will save them wasted materials, and of course, they just never know
where the "little business" you offer may lead in the future.

--
J.C. Roberts

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

ropers
In reply to this post by Aaron Poffenberger
> Daniel A. Ramaley wrote:
>>
>> As for the original poster's HP aversion... i've had good luck with HP.
>> At home i use an HP 2605dn, a duplexing color laser printer that has
>> worked beautifully for my light use. That exact model is probably no
>> longer available since HP regularly rotates their consumer models, but
>> they undoubtedly have something similar today.

2009/4/6 Aaron Poffenberger <[hidden email]>:

>
> I specifically went with HP after doing my research and can second Dan's
> recommendation of the HP's 2605dn. I have the same printer and did nothing
> more than setup a printcap entry for it to be the default printer and it
> just works. I really like the fact that it has a web-management console that
> lets me configure anything available from the Mac & Windows desktop app. I
> also like that on both Mac & PC you can opt to install just a print driver
> without the management crap. Some printers require desktop-software running
> in the background in order to use the printer. This one doesn't.
>
> All-in-all, a nice printer.

Grand, grand. It's your purchase, so your satisfaction with it is
paramount. Personally, I'd not want a HP product unless there was no
alternative and it was unavoidable. Or maybe if I got it for free.
Generally speaking, I'm just not really convinced that HP printers are
all that great.

...

In other news, if you engaged in some serious Intarwebs sleuthing, you
could probably figure out what company I used to work for.
Coming up at eight: The evening movie, right after a quick word from
our sponsors. But first: the weather. More news at 11.

regards,
--ropers

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Re: [semi-OT] Can anyone recommend an OpenBSD-compatible colour laser printer?

ropers
In reply to this post by J.C. Roberts-3
2009/4/6 J.C. Roberts <[hidden email]>:
>
> If the real reason for buying a laser printer is PCB work, then there
> are some laser printers with a perfectly straight card-stock paper path
> where you can actually run the PCB material directly through the
> printer. I've seen them but I can't recall off the top of my head what
> brands/models can do this.

Have you actually tried this? I'm just wondering, because I have a
really hard time imagining how this could work, seeing that laser
printers tend to require and electrically charged drum, and an
electrically conductive (and potentially, somewhere, grounded) print
medium seems like it could drain the drum charge real fast, resulting
in the toner going all over the place. But maybe I'm mistaken. Maybe
the drum charge is really only required during transfer of the toner
to the drum, and maybe even the drum being in contact with a copper
plated medium wouldn't disturb the toner positioning. Maybe the toner
would transfer and get fused to the "blank PCB" just fine. Maybe. If
anyone knows, then I'd be really curious to hear.

regards,
--ropers

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