performance of intel multithreading

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performance of intel multithreading

Kihaguru Gathura-2
Hi,

From a security standpoint, which platform will offer better performance
solution in web and database now that OpenBSD multithreading is switched
off for Intel?


(Fujitsu PRIMEPOWER 250 - Version F - 2 X SPARC64 V 1.98 GHz) or (Fujitsu
PRIMERGY RX300 S6 - 2 X Xeon 6 core 12 thread E5620 2.4 GHz)


Thanks,

Kihaguru
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Re: performance of intel multithreading

Kihaguru Gathura-2
The PRIMERGY registers more cpu's a total of 24 when OpenBSD is installed

On Tuesday, November 6, 2018, Kihaguru Gathura <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> From a security standpoint, which platform will offer better performance
solution in web and database now that OpenBSD multithreading is switched
off for Intel?
>
>
> (Fujitsu PRIMEPOWER 250 - Version F - 2 X SPARC64 V 1.98 GHz) or (Fujitsu
PRIMERGY RX300 S6 - 2 X Xeon 6 core 12 thread E5620 2.4 GHz)
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kihaguru
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Re: performance of intel multithreading

Nick Holland
In reply to this post by Kihaguru Gathura-2
On 11/05/18 23:51, Kihaguru Gathura wrote:
> Hi,
>
> From a security standpoint,
> which platform will offer better performance

huh?  What's your priority, security or performance?

> solution in web and database now that OpenBSD
> multithreading is switched off for Intel?
>
>
> (Fujitsu PRIMEPOWER 250 - Version F - 2 X SPARC64 V 1.98 GHz)

a very old, SCSI based computer.

> or
> (Fujitsu PRIMERGY RX300 S6 - 2 X Xeon 6 core 12 thread E5620 2.4
> GHz)

A not quite as old SATA/SAS system (but still hardly new).

If you have both, do your own benchmarks.
If you have one and no budget to buy something ...um... modern, use it.
If you have neither, buy something ELSE.

My guess is that the Intel powered system will outrun the SPARC system
in raw performance in every measure you make.  Probably won't even need
to use a stopwatch to compare.  And a modern laptop will embarrass both
of them, multi-threading or not.

I'd not put a SCSI system into production as you won't find too many
drives less than ten years old, and they are tiny, power hungry, and
slow by modern disk standards.  At least the SAS based system, you can
get new drives for, or even stock it with SSDs and really have fun.

Security?  Eh.  I suspect you aren't getting ROM updates for either. If
someone pops your system security and tries to run a binary on it, the
UltraSPARC will probably give them a bigger surprise.  But if you are
running web services, you are probably running apps written by someone
without any idea what they are doing in an interpreted language like
PHP, and the exact same exploits will take out either platform, because
the exploits will be at a much higher level than the processor.

Nick.

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Re: performance of intel multithreading

Kihaguru Gathura-2
Hi,


On Wednesday, November 7, 2018, Nick Holland <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> On 11/05/18 23:51, Kihaguru Gathura wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> From a security standpoint,
>> which platform will offer better performance
>
> huh?  What's your priority, security or performance?
>

Security is the Priority.

> If you have one and no budget to buy something ...um... modern, use it.

I have the PrimePower 250

> UltraSPARC will probably give them a bigger surprise.

Please explain further if possible.

But if you are
> running web services, you are probably running apps written by someone
> without any idea what they are doing in an interpreted language like
> PHP, and the exact same exploits will take out either platform, because
> the exploits will be at a much higher level than the processor.

Self written services in C language.


Thanks,

Kihaguru.
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Re: performance of intel multithreading

Claudio Jeker
On Wed, Nov 07, 2018 at 07:34:57PM +0300, Kihaguru Gathura wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 7, 2018, Nick Holland <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > On 11/05/18 23:51, Kihaguru Gathura wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> From a security standpoint,
> >> which platform will offer better performance
> >
> > huh?  What's your priority, security or performance?
> >
>
> Security is the Priority.
>
> > If you have one and no budget to buy something ...um... modern, use it.
>
> I have the PrimePower 250
>
> > UltraSPARC will probably give them a bigger surprise.
>
> Please explain further if possible.
>
> But if you are
> > running web services, you are probably running apps written by someone
> > without any idea what they are doing in an interpreted language like
> > PHP, and the exact same exploits will take out either platform, because
> > the exploits will be at a much higher level than the processor.
>
> Self written services in C language.
>

SPARC64 has thanks to stackghost a good defence against ROP attacks. It is
big endian and strict aligned. The IOMMU also give some protection of
driver bugs. SUN4U would be able to do execute only pages but SUN4V no
longer supports that. In general OpenBSD/sparc64 is a good arch when it
comes to being secure. The problem is that there is less and less good
hardware around which is beefy enough and so more and more packages fail
to build -- there is general less interest in the HW (esp outside OpenBSD).

Now OpenBSD/amd64 is also not bad either, fairly important changes were
made to make attacks less successful (e.g. Todd Mortimer's LLVM
ret-protector). The big benefit of amd64 is that this is the common arch
every developer has access to.

In the end running OpenBSD gives you as many security features turned on
by default as nowhere else.

--
:wq Claudio

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Re: performance of intel multithreading

Nick Holland
In reply to this post by Kihaguru Gathura-2
On 11/07/18 11:34, Kihaguru Gathura wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 7, 2018, Nick Holland <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> On 11/05/18 23:51, Kihaguru Gathura wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> From a security standpoint,
>>> which platform will offer better performance
>>
>> huh?  What's your priority, security or performance?
>>
>
> Security is the Priority.
>
>> If you have one and no budget to buy something ...um... modern, use it.
>
> I have the PrimePower 250
>
>> UltraSPARC will probably give them a bigger surprise.
>
> Please explain further if possible.

Most attackers are what we call script kiddies -- they don't know what
they are doing, but they have a script, they throw it at a target and it
either works and they move in or it doesn't, and they move on to the
next target (or often, their magic cracking kit does it for them).

For these people, "computers" are all IBM PC descended and all powered
by Intel processors.  Something not running Windows or Linux and not
running on an Intel chip will be a huge deterrent IF they get into your
system and try to run their binary tool kits.

Now, someone who knows their mouse from their keyboard...no.  And a
state sponsored attacker that's after YOU personally?  No.  But they
will have to hand you over to the next tier guys. :)

The analogy I've used often is much of computer security logic, if
applied to your household security, would involve putting the door to
your house on a different side than your neighbors's doors and putting
the door knob on the opposite side....and maybe painting the door
purple.  And sure enough, the guy wandering down the street with
instructions saying "Door on front of house, color brown, handle on left
side" will totally miss the door of your house and your house will be
"secure" even if the door is unlocked.  And fortunately, 99.9% of the
attackers out there are going to be stopped by your oddly placed
backwards purple door.

The problem is...there are tens of thousands of attackers, so quite a
few aren't going to be confused by this.


> But if you are
>> running web services, you are probably running apps written by someone
>> without any idea what they are doing in an interpreted language like
>> PHP, and the exact same exploits will take out either platform, because
>> the exploits will be at a much higher level than the processor.
>
> Self written services in C language.

Now, who do you think is a better programmer, the people who put
together OpenBSD or you?  Not to show you any disrespect, but honestly,
I'm putting my money on the OpenBSD devs.  Most likely, OpenBSD won't be
the entry point for your attacker.  A lot of the brilliant work that the
OpenBSD devs have done may HELP your system survive a flaw in your
program, but your program is still more likely to be the entry point (or
data exfiltration point) than the OS is, so your Plat X vs. Plat Y
decision is probably not the big thing to worry about.


Nick.