ntpd.drift values?

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ntpd.drift values?

Christian Weisgerber
I'm interested in what values people have in their /var/db/ntpd.drift
files.

To prevent a deluge: Looking over my own machines, I see that most
values are Xe-05, with a few Xe-04 and Xe-06.  So that's the common
range, I don't care about that.  But if you have machines with a
frequency accuracy outside that range, I'd like to hear about it.

E.g., my Sun Blade 100 has 1.180462e-03.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          [hidden email]

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Re: ntpd.drift values?

Patrik Lundin
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 04:30:25PM +0000, Christian Weisgerber wrote:

> I'm interested in what values people have in their /var/db/ntpd.drift
> files.
>
> To prevent a deluge: Looking over my own machines, I see that most
> values are Xe-05, with a few Xe-04 and Xe-06.  So that's the common
> range, I don't care about that.  But if you have machines with a
> frequency accuracy outside that range, I'd like to hear about it.
>
> E.g., my Sun Blade 100 has 1.180462e-03.
>

The only machine in my possession that differed from the range you
described was an old macppc Mac mini:

# ls -l /var/db/ntpd.drift
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  13 Jan 12 07:25 /var/db/ntpd.drift
# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
2.405187e-03

I'll post a dmesg below in case it is interesting.

Regards,
Patrik Lundin

OpenBSD 5.6-stable (GENERIC) #0: Sun Dec 14 12:50:41 CET 2014
    [hidden email]:/usr/src/sys/arch/macppc/compile/GENERIC
real mem = 536870912 (512MB)
avail mem = 506994688 (483MB)
mpath0 at root
scsibus0 at mpath0: 256 targets
mainbus0 at root: model PowerMac10,2
cpu0 at mainbus0: 7447A (Revision 0x105): 1499 MHz: 512KB L2 cache
mem0 at mainbus0
spdmem0 at mem0: 512MB DDR SDRAM non-parity PC3200CL3.0
memc0 at mainbus0: uni-n rev 0xd2
"hw-clock" at memc0 not configured
kiic0 at memc0 offset 0xf8001000
iic0 at kiic0
mpcpcibr0 at mainbus0 pci: uni-north
pci0 at mpcpcibr0 bus 0
pchb0 at pci0 dev 11 function 0 "Apple UniNorth AGP" rev 0x00
radeondrm0 at pci0 dev 16 function 0 "ATI Radeon 9200" rev 0x01
drm0 at radeondrm0
radeondrm0: irq 48
mpcpcibr1 at mainbus0 pci: uni-north
pci1 at mpcpcibr1 bus 0
macobio0 at pci1 dev 23 function 0 "Apple Intrepid" rev 0x00
openpic0 at macobio0 offset 0x40000: version 0x4614 feature 3f0302 LE
macgpio0 at macobio0 offset 0x50
"modem-reset" at macgpio0 offset 0x1d not configured
"modem-power" at macgpio0 offset 0x1c not configured
macgpio1 at macgpio0 offset 0x9: irq 47
"programmer-switch" at macgpio0 offset 0x11 not configured
"gpio5" at macgpio0 offset 0x6f not configured
"gpio6" at macgpio0 offset 0x70 not configured
"extint-gpio15" at macgpio0 offset 0x67 not configured
"escc-legacy" at macobio0 offset 0x12000 not configured
zsc0 at macobio0 offset 0x13000: irq 22,23
zstty0 at zsc0 channel 0
zstty1 at zsc0 channel 1
aoa0 at macobio0 offset 0x10000: irq 30,1,2
audio0 at aoa0
"timer" at macobio0 offset 0x15000 not configured
adb0 at macobio0 offset 0x16000
apm0 at adb0: battery flags 0x0, 0% charged
piic0 at adb0
iic1 at piic0
maxtmp0 at iic1 addr 0xc8: max6642
kiic1 at macobio0 offset 0x18000
iic2 at kiic1
wdc0 at macobio0 offset 0x20000 irq 24: DMA
bwi0 at pci1 dev 18 function 0 "Broadcom BCM4318" rev 0x02: irq 52, address 00:11:24:c0:50:e0
ohci0 at pci1 dev 26 function 0 "Apple Intrepid USB" rev 0x00: irq 29, version 1.0, legacy support
ohci1 at pci1 dev 27 function 0 "NEC USB" rev 0x43: irq 63, version 1.0
ohci2 at pci1 dev 27 function 1 "NEC USB" rev 0x43: irq 63, version 1.0
ehci0 at pci1 dev 27 function 2 "NEC USB" rev 0x04: irq 63
usb0 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0
uhub0 at usb0 "NEC EHCI root hub" rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1
usb1 at ohci0: USB revision 1.0
uhub1 at usb1 "Apple OHCI root hub" rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1
usb2 at ohci1: USB revision 1.0
uhub2 at usb2 "NEC OHCI root hub" rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1
usb3 at ohci2: USB revision 1.0
uhub3 at usb3 "NEC OHCI root hub" rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1
mpcpcibr2 at mainbus0 pci: uni-north
pci2 at mpcpcibr2 bus 0
kauaiata0 at pci2 dev 13 function 0 "Apple Intrepid ATA" rev 0x00
wdc1 at kauaiata0 irq 39: DMA
wd0 at wdc1 channel 0 drive 0: <ST9808211A>
wd0: 16-sector PIO, LBA, 76319MB, 156301488 sectors
atapiscsi0 at wdc1 channel 0 drive 1
scsibus1 at atapiscsi0: 2 targets
cd0 at scsibus1 targ 0 lun 0: <MATSHITA, DVD-R UJ-845, D8PB> ATAPI 5/cdrom removable
wd0(wdc1:0:0): using PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2, Ultra-DMA mode 4
cd0(wdc1:0:1): using PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2, Ultra-DMA mode 4
"Apple UniNorth Firewire" rev 0x81 at pci2 dev 14 function 0 not configured
gem0 at pci2 dev 15 function 0 "Apple Uni-N2 GMAC" rev 0x80: irq 41, address 00:11:24:d6:fc:32
bmtphy0 at gem0 phy 0: BCM5221 100baseTX PHY, rev. 4
uhidev0 at uhub1 port 1 configuration 1 interface 0 "Apple Computer HID-proxy" rev 2.00/19.65 addr 2
uhidev0: iclass 3/1
ukbd0 at uhidev0: 8 variable keys, 6 key codes
wskbd0 at ukbd0 mux 1
uhidev1 at uhub1 port 1 configuration 1 interface 1 "Apple Computer HID-proxy" rev 2.00/19.65 addr 2
uhidev1: iclass 3/1
ums0 at uhidev1: 5 buttons
wsmouse0 at ums0 mux 0
vscsi0 at root
scsibus2 at vscsi0: 256 targets
softraid0 at root
scsibus3 at softraid0: 256 targets
bootpath: /pci@f4000000/ata-6@d/disk@0:/bsd
root on wd0a (03f064c2035a40b3.a) swap on wd0b dump on wd0b
drm: initializing kernel modesetting (RV280 0x1002:0x5962 0x1002:0x5962).
error: [drm:pid0:radeon_get_bios] *ERROR* Unable to locate a BIOS ROM
drm: Using device-tree clock info
radeondrm0: VRAM: 128M 0x0000000098000000 - 0x000000009FFFFFFF (64M used)
trying to bind memory to uninitialized GART !
error: [drm:pid0:radeon_ttm_backend_bind] *ERROR* failed to bind 1 pages at 0x00000000
error: [drm:pid0:radeon_wb_init] *ERROR* (-22) create WB bo failed
error: [drm:pid0:r100_init] *ERROR* Disabling GPU acceleration
drm: radeon: cp finalized
drm: radeon: cp finalized
Finalizing pool allocator
ttm_pool_mm_shrink_fini stub
drm: Zone  kernel: Used memory at exit: 0 kiB
drm: radeon: ttm finalized
drm: Forcing AGP to PCI mode
error: [drm:pid0:radeon_get_bios] *ERROR* Unable to locate a BIOS ROM
drm: Using device-tree clock info
radeondrm0: VRAM: 128M 0x0000000098000000 - 0x000000009FFFFFFF (64M used)
radeondrm0: GTT: 512M 0x0000000078000000 - 0x0000000097FFFFFF
drm: PCI GART of 512M enabled (table at 0x0000000001C81000).
drm: Connector Table: 6 (mini external tmds)
drm: No valid Ext TMDS info found in BIOS
drm: No TV DAC info found in BIOS
No connectors reported connected with modes
Cannot find any crtc or sizes - going 1024x768
radeondrm0: 1024x768
wsdisplay0 at radeondrm0 mux 1: console (std, vt100 emulation)
wskbd0: connecting to wsdisplay0
wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (std, vt100 emulation)

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Re: ntpd.drift values?

Daniel Ouellet
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
On 1/12/15 11:30 AM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:

> I'm interested in what values people have in their /var/db/ntpd.drift
> files.
>
> To prevent a deluge: Looking over my own machines, I see that most
> values are Xe-05, with a few Xe-04 and Xe-06.  So that's the common
> range, I don't care about that.  But if you have machines with a
> frequency accuracy outside that range, I'd like to hear about it.
>
> E.g., my Sun Blade 100 has 1.180462e-03.
>

I have about 50 to 60 Old Sun boxes on their way out all with value like
this, just a few examples with various version. But I do have plenty of
them as you can see. Just a limited example lists.

Daniel


# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.055324e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.032935e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.063805e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.040444e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.040631e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.033248e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.040670e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.042067e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.047072e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.053258e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.043816e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.057907e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.035807e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.049110e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.027660e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.044599e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.029674e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.049267e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
7.568284e-05

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.036458e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.027673e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
2.689529e-05

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.169196e-05

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.042208e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
3.758685e-04

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
1.046213e-03

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
8.674609e-06

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Re: ntpd.drift values?

Peter Strömberg-2
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
$ cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
2.475987e-03

ASUS M3A78-T



On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Christian Weisgerber <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I'm interested in what values people have in their /var/db/ntpd.drift
> files.
>
> To prevent a deluge: Looking over my own machines, I see that most
> values are Xe-05, with a few Xe-04 and Xe-06.  So that's the common
> range, I don't care about that.  But if you have machines with a
> frequency accuracy outside that range, I'd like to hear about it.
>
> E.g., my Sun Blade 100 has 1.180462e-03.
>
> --
> Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          [hidden email]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of dmesg.boot]

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Re: ntpd.drift values?

Stuart Henderson
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
On 2015-01-12, Christian Weisgerber <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm interested in what values people have in their /var/db/ntpd.drift
> files.
>
> To prevent a deluge: Looking over my own machines, I see that most
> values are Xe-05, with a few Xe-04 and Xe-06.  So that's the common
> range, I don't care about that.  But if you have machines with a
> frequency accuracy outside that range, I'd like to hear about it.
>
> E.g., my Sun Blade 100 has 1.180462e-03.
>

Taking the ones I can check easily:

1x e-03 (macppc mac mini)
1x e-04 (alix)
16x e-05
8x e-06 (various r200, r210)
5x e-07 (r210, supermicro A1SAi, KVM [arp networks], net4526)
2x e-08 (esxi)

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Re: ntpd.drift values?

Sebastian Reitenbach
On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 11:58 CET, Stuart Henderson <[hidden email]> wrote:
 

> On 2015-01-12, Christian Weisgerber <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I'm interested in what values people have in their /var/db/ntpd.drift
> > files.
> >
> > To prevent a deluge: Looking over my own machines, I see that most
> > values are Xe-05, with a few Xe-04 and Xe-06.  So that's the common
> > range, I don't care about that.  But if you have machines with a
> > frequency accuracy outside that range, I'd like to hear about it.
> >
> > E.g., my Sun Blade 100 has 1.180462e-03.
> >

Here a few numbers that were easily collectable:

Dell Inc. Latitude D630 cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7250 @ 2.00GHz (amd64)                                                                            
2.166568e-05

VIA Eden Processor 1200MHz ("CentaurHauls" 686-class) 1.21 GHz (i386)
-2.109627e-04

Acer, inc. Aspire 3630 1.61GHz (i386)
-4.995503e-05

Soekris Geode(TM) 267Mhz (i386)
-2.438824e-05

Soekris Geode(TM) 500MHz (i386)
1.062687e-05

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Re: ntpd.drift values?

Alexey Suslikov
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
Christian Weisgerber <naddy <at> mips.inka.de> writes:

> I'm interested in what values people have in their /var/db/ntpd.drift
> files.

cpu0: Intel(R) Pentium(R) CPU 2117U @ 1.80GHz, 1796.23 MHz
5.323365e-06

cpu0: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X3430 @ 2.40GHz, 2394.38 MHz
1.213260e-05

if it is important, how about adding /var/db/ntpd.drift to sendbug?

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Re: ntpd.drift values?

trondd
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
The only system I have outside that range is my Zaurus SL-C3000 which is e-07.

Tim.

On 1/12/15, Christian Weisgerber <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm interested in what values people have in their /var/db/ntpd.drift
> files.
>
> To prevent a deluge: Looking over my own machines, I see that most
> values are Xe-05, with a few Xe-04 and Xe-06.  So that's the common
> range, I don't care about that.  But if you have machines with a
> frequency accuracy outside that range, I'd like to hear about it.
>
> E.g., my Sun Blade 100 has 1.180462e-03.
>
> --
> Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          [hidden email]

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Re: ntpd.drift values?

Christian Weisgerber
In reply to this post by Stuart Henderson
On 2015-01-13, Stuart Henderson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 1x e-03 (macppc mac mini)

Thanks to all who replied.  Macs and Suns seem to be particularly
bad.  I counted zeroes again and just realized that the combo of
ntp.org and ntp_adjtime() can only correct offsets up to 5e-4
(500 ppm).  I wonder if our timekeeping on these archs is broken.

> 2x e-08 (esxi)

Oooh, interesting.  I hadn't considered VMs that actually keep time.

Anyway, I was asking because we want, for compatibility reasons,
to switch OpenNTPD's drift file format from an unscaled frequency
offset to ppm, and it would be nice if we could just tell from the
magnitude of the number what unit it's in.  See the patch on tech@.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          [hidden email]

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Re: ntpd.drift values?

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
> > 2x e-08 (esxi)
>
> Oooh, interesting.  I hadn't considered VMs that actually keep time.
>
> Anyway, I was asking because we want, for compatibility reasons,
> to switch OpenNTPD's drift file format from an unscaled frequency
> offset to ppm, and it would be nice if we could just tell from the
> magnitude of the number what unit it's in.  See the patch on tech@.

I know it will sound a bit crazy, but we could delete crazy drift
files during upgrade...

Prod them to learn fresh.

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Re: ntpd.drift values?

Maurice Janssen-2
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
On 01/13/15 19:54, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2015-01-13, Stuart Henderson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> 2x e-08 (esxi)
>
> Oooh, interesting.  I hadn't considered VMs that actually keep time.

4.560218e-09 (VM at Transip.nl, don't know what kind of host OS they use)

Maurice

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Re: ntpd.drift values?

Jorge Gabriel Lopez Paramount
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
Quoting Christian Weisgerber <[hidden email]>:

>> 2x e-08 (esxi)
>
> Oooh, interesting.  I hadn't considered VMs that actually keep time.

Indeed:

# cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
3.970778e-09

OpenBSD 5.5/i386 with qemu on Linux host, worked fine so far.   =)

--
Best regards,
Jorge Lopez.



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Re: ntpd.drift values?

janus
In reply to this post by Maurice Janssen-2
KVM VM1 (wedos.cz):
$ cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
-7.373786e-07

KVM VM2 (wedos.cz):
$ cat /var/db/ntpd.drift
6.413769e-08

Jan

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 08:07:44PM +0100, Maurice Janssen wrote:
> On 01/13/15 19:54, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> >On 2015-01-13, Stuart Henderson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>2x e-08 (esxi)
> >
> >Oooh, interesting.  I hadn't considered VMs that actually keep time.
>
> 4.560218e-09 (VM at Transip.nl, don't know what kind of host OS they use)
>
> Maurice