missing packages for SPARC

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missing packages for SPARC

Riccardo Mottola
Hi,

I was pkg_add'ing some essential packages on a freshly installed SPARC
machine. I noticed that several packages are missing. I thought it was
the mirror, but they are missing on the master ftp too.
I know that some packages might not build on sparc or do not have sense
on that platform, however I was looking for pretty general stuff:
libxmsl, libxslt or subversion.

Is this a problem? or is it deliberate? Sebastian, I know you used to
stress your SPARCs :)

Thank you,
Riccardo

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Re: missing packages for SPARC

Tobias Ulmer
On Tue, Dec 02, 2014 at 10:35:43PM +0100, Riccardo Mottola wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I was pkg_add'ing some essential packages on a freshly installed SPARC
> machine. I noticed that several packages are missing. I thought it was the
> mirror, but they are missing on the master ftp too.
> I know that some packages might not build on sparc or do not have sense on
> that platform, however I was looking for pretty general stuff: libxmsl,
> libxslt or subversion.

It looks like sparc 5.6 package were built without the modf fix :(

http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/lib/libc/arch/sparc/gen/modf.S

There isn't much that doesn't require python as a build-depends
somewhere...

You're welcome to help out. There is an open issue with bash and
setjmp/longjmp (guessing) that breaks dbus (iirc). I've lost countless
hours and gave up on that.

>
> Is this a problem? or is it deliberate? Sebastian, I know you used to stress
> your SPARCs :)
>
> Thank you,
> Riccardo

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Re: missing packages for SPARC

Christian Weisgerber
In reply to this post by Riccardo Mottola
On 2014-12-02, Riccardo Mottola <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I was pkg_add'ing some essential packages on a freshly installed SPARC
> machine. I noticed that several packages are missing. I thought it was
> the mirror, but they are missing on the master ftp too.
> I know that some packages might not build on sparc or do not have sense
> on that platform, however I was looking for pretty general stuff:
> libxmsl, libxslt or subversion.

They didn't build.  I can't tell whether that's due to the package
building process (the sparc build machines are very unstable) or
problems with the ports themselves.  Peter Hessler may be able to
comment.

Unfortunately, that's the usual course when an architecture becomes
less and less common.  Build failures pile up, compounded by slowness
and general reliability problems, and the set of available packages
keeps shrinking.

Somebody needs to care.

There is no magic bullet.  If, say, two hundred ports fail to build
and take out thousands more for which they serve as dependencies,
then the only way to fix this is for somebody to sit down and examine
and fix the failing ports.  One by one.

If nobody steps up to do this, then it won't happen.

We keep having this tail of zombie architectures.  Long obsolete
hardware, run by few people, with pitiful "best effort" package
builds happening each release and with luck once between.  They
slowly sink under the accumulating bitrot that nobody cares to fix,
but at the same time people can't bring themselves to completely
abandon those archs.  *shrug*

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          [hidden email]

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Re: missing packages for SPARC

patrick keshishian
On 12/3/14, Christian Weisgerber <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2014-12-02, Riccardo Mottola <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I was pkg_add'ing some essential packages on a freshly installed SPARC
>> machine. I noticed that several packages are missing. I thought it was
>> the mirror, but they are missing on the master ftp too.
>> I know that some packages might not build on sparc or do not have sense
>> on that platform, however I was looking for pretty general stuff:
>> libxmsl, libxslt or subversion.
>
> They didn't build.  I can't tell whether that's due to the package
> building process (the sparc build machines are very unstable) or
> problems with the ports themselves.  Peter Hessler may be able to
> comment.
>
> Unfortunately, that's the usual course when an architecture becomes
> less and less common.  Build failures pile up, compounded by slowness
> and general reliability problems, and the set of available packages
> keeps shrinking.
>
> Somebody needs to care.
>
> There is no magic bullet.  If, say, two hundred ports fail to build
> and take out thousands more for which they serve as dependencies,
> then the only way to fix this is for somebody to sit down and examine
> and fix the failing ports.  One by one.
>
> If nobody steps up to do this, then it won't happen.
>
> We keep having this tail of zombie architectures.  Long obsolete
> hardware, run by few people, with pitiful "best effort" package
> builds happening each release and with luck once between.  They
> slowly sink under the accumulating bitrot that nobody cares to fix,
> but at the same time people can't bring themselves to completely
> abandon those archs.  *shrug*

how do you guys deal with disk space with sparc machines?
NFS?

I will dust off my ss20 this weekend see if it powers up.

--patrick

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Re: missing packages for SPARC

Christian Weisgerber
patrick keshishian:

> how do you guys deal with disk space with sparc machines?
> NFS?

Distfiles and packages on NFS, obj on local disk.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          [hidden email]

dev
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Re: missing packages for SPARC

dev
In reply to this post by patrick keshishian
> > We keep having this tail of zombie architectures.  Long obsolete
> > hardware, run by few people, with pitiful "best effort" package
> > builds happening each release and with luck once between.  They
> > slowly sink under the accumulating bitrot that nobody cares to fix,
> > but at the same time people can't bring themselves to completely
> > abandon those archs.  *shrug*
>
<snip>
> I will dust off my ss20 this weekend see if it powers up.
>

A SparcStation 20 is a relic for historical reference only. A cool
item and if it powers up I would be surprised. However it won't
make any more sense than to have a 1976 Ford truck as a daily
driver.

It would be a waste of effort to look at anything previous to a
Sun Fire V890 or any UltraSPARC IV based server.  There are very
few out there running Solaris any more and only hobby types have
SPARC anywhere else.

I ran OpenBSD 5.4 briefly on a small UltraSPARC Netra and it ran
very well. However I ran into issues trying to compile things.  I
may look at OpenBSD again but really anything less than a modern
Niagara class UltraSparc would be wasted efforts I think.

Dennis

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Re: missing packages for SPARC

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Riccardo Mottola
> > > We keep having this tail of zombie architectures.  Long obsolete
> > > hardware, run by few people, with pitiful "best effort" package
> > > builds happening each release and with luck once between.  They
> > > slowly sink under the accumulating bitrot that nobody cares to fix,
> > > but at the same time people can't bring themselves to completely
> > > abandon those archs.  *shrug*
> >
> <snip>
> > I will dust off my ss20 this weekend see if it powers up.
> >
>
> A SparcStation 20 is a relic for historical reference only. A cool
> item and if it powers up I would be surprised. However it won't
> make any more sense than to have a 1976 Ford truck as a daily
> driver.
>
> It would be a waste of effort to look at anything previous to a
> Sun Fire V890 or any UltraSPARC IV based server.  There are very
> few out there running Solaris any more and only hobby types have
> SPARC anywhere else.
>
> I ran OpenBSD 5.4 briefly on a small UltraSPARC Netra and it ran
> very well. However I ran into issues trying to compile things.  I
> may look at OpenBSD again but really anything less than a modern
> Niagara class UltraSparc would be wasted efforts I think.

You are speaking out of turn, basically insulting people who want
to make sure that older architectures do work.  The Sun Fire V890
and Niagara machines are not sparc architecture.  They are sparc64.

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Re: missing packages for SPARC

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Riccardo Mottola
> > > > I will dust off my ss20 this weekend see if it powers up.
> > > >
> > >
> > > A SparcStation 20 is a relic for historical reference only. A cool
> > > item and if it powers up I would be surprised. However it won't
> > > make any more sense than to have a 1976 Ford truck as a daily
> > > driver.
> > >
> > > It would be a waste of effort to look at anything previous to a
> > > Sun Fire V890 or any UltraSPARC IV based server.  There are very
> > > few out there running Solaris any more and only hobby types have
> > > SPARC anywhere else.
> > >
> > > I ran OpenBSD 5.4 briefly on a small UltraSPARC Netra and it ran
> > > very well. However I ran into issues trying to compile things.  I
> > > may look at OpenBSD again but really anything less than a modern
> > > Niagara class UltraSparc would be wasted efforts I think.
> >
> > You are speaking out of turn, basically insulting people who want
> > to make sure that older architectures do work.  The Sun Fire V890
> > and Niagara machines are not sparc architecture.  They are sparc64.
> >
>
> Not sure where the anger is coming from. Regardless, there may be people
> that are interested in running OpenBSD on a DEC alphaserver or even a
> Sun SparcStation 20 from 1996 and that may just be entertainment.  I
> would hope that there was an interest in more modern architectures where
> OpenBSD may run very very well.

Oh just shut up.

I would hope you can keep your mouth shut when people talk about the
things they love to hack on.

Because otherwise, you know, you might come off looking like you are
a self-entitled prick who only wants them to work on things you want,
you know?

dev
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Re: missing packages for SPARC

dev
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
> > <snip>
> > > I will dust off my ss20 this weekend see if it powers up.
> > >
> >
> > A SparcStation 20 is a relic for historical reference only. A cool
> > item and if it powers up I would be surprised. However it won't
> > make any more sense than to have a 1976 Ford truck as a daily
> > driver.
> >
> > It would be a waste of effort to look at anything previous to a
> > Sun Fire V890 or any UltraSPARC IV based server.  There are very
> > few out there running Solaris any more and only hobby types have
> > SPARC anywhere else.
> >
> > I ran OpenBSD 5.4 briefly on a small UltraSPARC Netra and it ran
> > very well. However I ran into issues trying to compile things.  I
> > may look at OpenBSD again but really anything less than a modern
> > Niagara class UltraSparc would be wasted efforts I think.
>
> You are speaking out of turn, basically insulting people who want
> to make sure that older architectures do work.  The Sun Fire V890
> and Niagara machines are not sparc architecture.  They are sparc64.
>

Not sure where the anger is coming from. Regardless, there may be people
that are interested in running OpenBSD on a DEC alphaserver or even a
Sun SparcStation 20 from 1996 and that may just be entertainment.  I
would hope that there was an interest in more modern architectures where
OpenBSD may run very very well.

Dennis

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Re: missing packages for SPARC

Mike Larkin
In reply to this post by dev
On Wed, Dec 03, 2014 at 05:54:14PM -0500, dev wrote:

> > > We keep having this tail of zombie architectures.  Long obsolete
> > > hardware, run by few people, with pitiful "best effort" package
> > > builds happening each release and with luck once between.  They
> > > slowly sink under the accumulating bitrot that nobody cares to fix,
> > > but at the same time people can't bring themselves to completely
> > > abandon those archs.  *shrug*
> >
> <snip>
> > I will dust off my ss20 this weekend see if it powers up.
> >
>
> A SparcStation 20 is a relic for historical reference only. A cool
> item and if it powers up I would be surprised. However it won't
> make any more sense than to have a 1976 Ford truck as a daily
> driver.

What you miss is that running on these architectures expose bugs that
would otherwise not be found. Endianness issues, timing differences
due to slower CPUs, alignment bugs, etc... And those bugs sometimes
turn out to be MI bugs that affect all architectures.

>
> It would be a waste of effort to look at anything previous to a
> Sun Fire V890 or any UltraSPARC IV based server.  There are very
> few out there running Solaris any more and only hobby types have
> SPARC anywhere else.
>
> I ran OpenBSD 5.4 briefly on a small UltraSPARC Netra and it ran
> very well. However I ran into issues trying to compile things.  I
> may look at OpenBSD again but really anything less than a modern
> Niagara class UltraSparc would be wasted efforts I think.
>
> Dennis

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Re: missing packages for SPARC

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Riccardo Mottola
> On Wed, Dec 03, 2014 at 05:54:14PM -0500, dev wrote:
> > > > We keep having this tail of zombie architectures.  Long obsolete
> > > > hardware, run by few people, with pitiful "best effort" package
> > > > builds happening each release and with luck once between.  They
> > > > slowly sink under the accumulating bitrot that nobody cares to fix,
> > > > but at the same time people can't bring themselves to completely
> > > > abandon those archs.  *shrug*
> > >
> > <snip>
> > > I will dust off my ss20 this weekend see if it powers up.
> > >
> >
> > A SparcStation 20 is a relic for historical reference only. A cool
> > item and if it powers up I would be surprised. However it won't
> > make any more sense than to have a 1976 Ford truck as a daily
> > driver.
>
> What you miss is that running on these architectures expose bugs that
> would otherwise not be found. Endianness issues, timing differences
> due to slower CPUs, alignment bugs, etc... And those bugs sometimes
> turn out to be MI bugs that affect all architectures.

Mike, you are talking way over his head...

dev
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Re: missing packages for SPARC

dev
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
> > > You are speaking out of turn, basically insulting people who want
> > > to make sure that older architectures do work.  The Sun Fire V890
> > > and Niagara machines are not sparc architecture.  They are
> > > sparc64.
> > >
> >
> > Not sure where the anger is coming from. Regardless, there may be
> > people
> > that are interested in running OpenBSD on a DEC alphaserver or even
> > a
> > Sun SparcStation 20 from 1996 and that may just be entertainment.  I
> > would hope that there was an interest in more modern architectures
> > where
> > OpenBSD may run very very well.
>
> Oh just shut up.
>
> I would hope you can keep your mouth shut when people talk about the
> things they love to hack on.
>
> Because otherwise, you know, you might come off looking like you are
> a self-entitled prick who only wants them to work on things you want,
> you know?


Actually I was closely following the discussion on utf8 issues and found
it interesting. OpenBSD is generally looked at as a serious and secure
UNIX implementation and I was giving consideration to getting GCC 4.9.2
built ansd tested on it.  I don't see results[1] in the GCC project for
recent GCC and felt it would be of value to try.  With a recent GCC it
may have been possible to then build Apache 2.4.x and some other things
that would allow an up to date set of tools to exist.  These would allow
a web site to run with great security and stability. Really that was my
entire interest in OpenBSD.  Oh, that and the LibreSSL work and OpenSSH
of course.

You, however, seem to feel a need to crash into a room like a mad man
off his meds.

Not sure what your intent is.  What is it?  Really?

Dennis


[1] https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.9/buildstat.html

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Re: missing packages for SPARC

System Administrator-39
On 3 Dec 2014 at 18:36, dev wrote:

> > > > You are speaking out of turn, basically insulting people who
> want
> > > > to make sure that older architectures do work.  The Sun Fire
> V890
> > > > and Niagara machines are not sparc architecture.  They are
> > > > sparc64.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Not sure where the anger is coming from. Regardless, there may
> be
> > > people
> > > that are interested in running OpenBSD on a DEC alphaserver or
> even
> > > a
> > > Sun SparcStation 20 from 1996 and that may just be entertainment.
> I
> > > would hope that there was an interest in more modern
> architectures
> > > where
> > > OpenBSD may run very very well.
> >
> > Oh just shut up.
> >
> > I would hope you can keep your mouth shut when people talk about
> the
> > things they love to hack on.
> >
> > Because otherwise, you know, you might come off looking like you
> are
> > a self-entitled prick who only wants them to work on things you
> want,
> > you know?
>
>
> Actually I was closely following the discussion on utf8 issues and
> found
> it interesting. OpenBSD is generally looked at as a serious and
> secure
> UNIX implementation and I was giving consideration to getting GCC
> 4.9.2
> built ansd tested on it.  I don't see results[1] in the GCC project
> for
> recent GCC and felt it would be of value to try.  With a recent GCC
> it
> may have been possible to then build Apache 2.4.x and some other
> things
> that would allow an up to date set of tools to exist.  These would
> allow
> a web site to run with great security and stability. Really that was
> my
> entire interest in OpenBSD.  Oh, that and the LibreSSL work and
> OpenSSH
> of course.
>
> You, however, seem to feel a need to crash into a room like a mad
> man
> off his meds.
>
> Not sure what your intent is.  What is it?  Really?

Pot meet kettle. Of course the big difference is that kettle has been
running the show (and very successully too) for the past two decades.

Now, let this thread die! All entertainment value has long evaporated.

> Dennis
>
>
> [1] https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.9/buildstat.html

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Re: missing packages for SPARC

Riccardo Mottola
In reply to this post by dev
Hi,

dev wrote:
> It would be a waste of effort to look at anything previous to a
> Sun Fire V890 or any UltraSPARC IV based server.  There are very
> few out there running Solaris any more and only hobby types have
> SPARC anywhere else.
The first thing you forget is the fun factor. People devote time in
open-source also because of fun and  other "profit" from it. If
everything was for profit, a lot wouldn't exist.
Otherwise just use Windows or RedHat on intel... and suffer with their bugs!

You might find fun in driving your 1976 car and even learn how to steer,
how to drive without traction control. Perhaps you won't use it for
daily commuting, but to go to the lake in the weekends?

Also, we are not speaking here of Solaris, but on OpenBSD. It can run on
slower stuff even.

Last point, I develop (= code) open source software since many years.
Not only I take pride that it runs on lesser known architectures and
operating systems, but doing so helped me find so many bugs that make my
software more robust and reliable than the average program coded for
"Linux and x86".
Buffer overflows, uninitialized variables.. especially structure members
are very sensitive on SPARC.

My stuff is more desktop oriented, so perhaps of less use for some
people here, but still !

Right below my SS20 there is a Fire, so don't worry, I'm working to get
my stuff working on Solaris and UltraSPARC too. If it runs on both, it
is a gain for the free software world.


Riccardo

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Re: missing packages for SPARC

Hugo Villeneuve-4
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
On Wed, Dec 03, 2014 at 09:46:04PM +0100, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> patrick keshishian:
>
> > how do you guys deal with disk space with sparc machines?
> > NFS?
>
> Distfiles and packages on NFS, obj on local disk.

That works well. But I got tired of that especialy since I was down
to a 1G drive and I had to have /usr/{src,ports,obj,xenocara,xobj}
on NFS.

I put a new Seagate 73GB SCA drive in my SparcStation 20 (150MHz/224MB).
It works but I can only use part of it.

After I got a few kmem_map out of space panic inside ufs_readdir.
I reduced my biggest partition from 25GB to 12GB and that seems to
have made them go away.

Although now, under heavy disk load, it cannot keep the clock
in time. I loose about 1 hours over a make build. (better than the
defunct mac68k port, annoying still.)


You may get different results with other SCA compatible Sparcs or
slower systems.


OpenBSD 5.6-stable (GENERIC) #2: Mon Dec  1 16:20:42 EST 2014
    [hidden email]:/usr/src/sys/arch/sparc/compile/GENERIC
real mem = 234319872 (223MB)
avail mem = 225472512 (215MB)
mainbus0 at root: SUNW,SPARCstation-20
cpu0 at mainbus0: RT620/625 @ 150 MHz, on-chip FPU
cpu0: 512K byte write-back, 32 bytes/line, sw flush cache enabled
obio0 at mainbus0
clock0 at obio0 addr 0xf1200000: mk48t08 (eeprom)
timer0 at obio0 addr 0xf1300000: delay constant 48, frequency 2000000 Hz
zs0 at obio0 addr 0xf1100000 pri 12, softpri 6
zstty0 at zs0 channel 0: console
zstty1 at zs0 channel 1
zs1 at obio0 addr 0xf1000000 pri 12, softpri 6
zskbd0 at zs1 channel 0: no keyboard
zsms0 at zs1 channel 1
wsmouse0 at zsms0 mux 0
fdc0 at obio0 addr 0xf1700000 pri 11, softpri 4: chip 82077
fd0 at fdc0 drive 0: 1.44MB 80 cyl, 2 head, 18 sec
auxreg0 at obio0 addr 0xf1800000
power0 at obio0 addr 0xf1a01000
cgfourteen0 at obio0 addr 0x9c000000 pri 8: 8MB, rev 3.0, 1152x900
wsdisplay0 at cgfourteen0 mux 1
wsdisplay0: screen 0 added (std, sun emulation)
iommu0 at mainbus0 ioaddr 0xe0000000: version 0x1/0x1, page-size 4096, range 64MB
sbus0 at iommu0: 25 MHz
dma0 at sbus0 slot 15 offset 0x400000: rev 2
esp0 at dma0 offset 0x800000 pri 4: ESP200, 40MHz
scsibus0 at esp0: 8 targets, initiator 7
sd0 at scsibus0 targ 3 lun 0: <SEAGATE, ST373455LC, 0003> SCSI3 0/direct fixed naa.5000000000000000
sd0: 70007MB, 512 bytes/sector, 143374744 sectors
cd0 at scsibus0 targ 6 lun 0: <TOSHIBA, XM-4101TASUNSLCD, 1084> SCSI2 5/cdrom removable
ledma0 at sbus0 slot 15 offset 0x400010: rev 2
le0 at ledma0 offset 0xc00000 pri 6: address 08:00:20:23:6b:8e
le0: 16 receive buffers, 4 transmit buffers
bpp0 at sbus0 slot 15 offset 0x4800000: DMA2
"SUNW,DBRIe" at sbus0 slot 14 offset 0x10000 not configured
cgsix0 at sbus0 slot 2 offset 0x0 pri 9: SUNW,501-2325, 1152x900, rev 11
wsdisplay1 at cgsix0 mux 1
wsdisplay1: screen 0 added (std, sun emulation)
vscsi0 at root
scsibus1 at vscsi0: 256 targets
softraid0 at root
scsibus2 at softraid0: 256 targets
bootpath: /iommu@f,e0000000/sbus@f,e0001000/espdma@f,400000/esp@f,800000/sd@3,0
root on sd0a (9794594d03d23d76.a) swap on sd0b dump on sd0b

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Re: missing packages for SPARC

Hugo Villeneuve-4
In reply to this post by Tobias Ulmer
On Wed, Dec 03, 2014 at 04:42:52PM +0100, Tobias Ulmer wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 02, 2014 at 10:35:43PM +0100, Riccardo Mottola wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was pkg_add'ing some essential packages on a freshly installed SPARC
> > machine. I noticed that several packages are missing. I thought it was the
> > mirror, but they are missing on the master ftp too.
> > I know that some packages might not build on sparc or do not have sense on
> > that platform, however I was looking for pretty general stuff: libxmsl,
> > libxslt or subversion.
>
> It looks like sparc 5.6 package were built without the modf fix :(
>
> http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/lib/libc/arch/sparc/gen/modf.S
>
> There isn't much that doesn't require python as a build-depends
> somewhere...

Ok, that fix made me able to build mutt, phyton 2.7.

>
> You're welcome to help out. There is an open issue with bash and
> setjmp/longjmp (guessing) that breaks dbus (iirc). I've lost countless
> hours and gave up on that.

Yeah, I got blocked with "bash" dependent ports (ruby-2.0 for subversion).


For a limited time, my small untrustworthy local sparc 5.6-stable
package collection:

http://vent.eintr.net:8040/pub/OpenBSD/5.6/packages/sparc/

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Re: missing packages for SPARC

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Riccardo Mottola
>> > > You are speaking out of turn, basically insulting people who want
>> > > to make sure that older architectures do work.  The Sun Fire V890
>> > > and Niagara machines are not sparc architecture.  They are
>> > > sparc64.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Not sure where the anger is coming from. Regardless, there may be
>> > people
>> > that are interested in running OpenBSD on a DEC alphaserver or even
>> > a
>> > Sun SparcStation 20 from 1996 and that may just be entertainment.  I
>> > would hope that there was an interest in more modern architectures
>> > where
>> > OpenBSD may run very very well.
>>
>> Oh just shut up.
>>
>> I would hope you can keep your mouth shut when people talk about the
>> things they love to hack on.
>>
>> Because otherwise, you know, you might come off looking like you are
>> a self-entitled prick who only wants them to work on things you want,
>> you know?
>
>
>Actually I was closely following the discussion on utf8 issues and found
>it interesting. OpenBSD is generally looked at as a serious and secure
>UNIX implementation and I was giving consideration to getting GCC 4.9.2
>built ansd tested on it.  I don't see results[1] in the GCC project for
>recent GCC and felt it would be of value to try.  With a recent GCC it
>may have been possible to then build Apache 2.4.x and some other things
>that would allow an up to date set of tools to exist.  These would allow
>a web site to run with great security and stability. Really that was my
>entire interest in OpenBSD.  Oh, that and the LibreSSL work and OpenSSH
>of course.
>
>You, however, seem to feel a need to crash into a room like a mad man
>off his meds.
>
>Not sure what your intent is.  What is it?  Really?



Let's be quite honest about this Dennis.

You aren't going to do shit because you don't have any skills.  You
are just a business person, not a programmer.


Thank you for adding the value of your words.

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Re: missing packages for SPARC

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Riccardo Mottola
>dev wrote:
>> It would be a waste of effort to look at anything previous to a
>> Sun Fire V890 or any UltraSPARC IV based server.  There are very
>> few out there running Solaris any more and only hobby types have
>> SPARC anywhere else.
>The first thing you forget is the fun factor. People devote time in
>open-source also because of fun and  other "profit" from it. If
>everything was for profit, a lot wouldn't exist.
>Otherwise just use Windows or RedHat on intel... and suffer with their bugs!
>
>You might find fun in driving your 1976 car and even learn how to steer,
>how to drive without traction control. Perhaps you won't use it for
>daily commuting, but to go to the lake in the weekends?
>
>Also, we are not speaking here of Solaris, but on OpenBSD. It can run on
>slower stuff even.
>
>Last point, I develop (= code) open source software since many years.
>Not only I take pride that it runs on lesser known architectures and
>operating systems, but doing so helped me find so many bugs that make my
>software more robust and reliable than the average program coded for
>"Linux and x86".
>Buffer overflows, uninitialized variables.. especially structure members
>are very sensitive on SPARC.
>
>My stuff is more desktop oriented, so perhaps of less use for some
>people here, but still !
>
>Right below my SS20 there is a Fire, so don't worry, I'm working to get
>my stuff working on Solaris and UltraSPARC too. If it runs on both, it
>is a gain for the free software world.

Sorry Riccardo, but Dennis is a businessman.

He does not care if you love doing this.  He would prefer that you
work on what HE NEEDS.

If you want to find out more, you can reach him at:

Admin Name: CLARKE, DENNIS
Admin Organization: Corvidae Code Inc.
Admin Street: 153 Chatham Street
Admin City: Brantford
Admin State/Province: ON
Admin Postal Code: N3S 4G5
Admin Country: CA
Admin Phone: +1.5197717761

Not that you need to reach out to him.  People like him are very
common.  You could walk down the street and find a person with his
simplistic attitude.

They simply don't believe that good things are built by people who
love building good things.  After all, they are people of business.

They will never understand the magic that creates the effects that
have paid for their houses.  They think it is all build on modern
foundations, and that building on the stones of the past provides
no benefit.  Future, ho.  The past is just rubble, right.

But do say hi if you call him.  Again, I think there is no point in
bothering.  He is common.  You can find people with his simplistic
attitude be stepping outside.  (Except those people on your street
rarely arrive on a mailing list and preach that people should stop
loving what they love).  Of course I have far more reactionary private
mails from him exposing his character.  The waste of my time stops
here, so should the waste of your time -- work on the wonderful things
you want to.  We never know the fruits until we try.

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Re: missing packages for SPARC

John Long-4
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
On Wed, Dec 03, 2014 at 04:36:43PM +0000, Christian Weisgerber wrote:

> On 2014-12-02, Riccardo Mottola <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I was pkg_add'ing some essential packages on a freshly installed SPARC
> > machine. I noticed that several packages are missing. I thought it was
> > the mirror, but they are missing on the master ftp too.
> > I know that some packages might not build on sparc or do not have sense
> > on that platform, however I was looking for pretty general stuff:
> > libxmsl, libxslt or subversion.
>
> They didn't build.  I can't tell whether that's due to the package
> building process (the sparc build machines are very unstable) or
> problems with the ports themselves.  Peter Hessler may be able to
> comment.

How much time is necessary to build packages during and for a release? How
much time for snapshots? And how often does this need to be done? I'm trying
to get an idea how much uptime you would need if somebody who is able to
take this on doesn't have a suitable box to build on.

I have a few boxes that could host this but I cannot run them for days on
end simply because they're in my office and would deafen/burn me alive.

> We keep having this tail of zombie architectures.  Long obsolete
> hardware, run by few people, with pitiful "best effort" package
> builds happening each release and with luck once between.  They
> slowly sink under the accumulating bitrot that nobody cares to fix,
> but at the same time people can't bring themselves to completely
> abandon those archs.  *shrug*

Arrrrgh........

/jl

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Re: missing packages for SPARC

John Long-4
I had forgotten OpenBSD has SPARC and SPARC64 ports. I don't have any SPARC
boxes, sorry for missing the point here.

If SPARC64 builds become an issue I hope I can help in some way.

/jl

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