infnan.3

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infnan.3

Jan Stary
lib/libm/man/infnan.3 says

   At some time in the future, some of the useful properties
   of the Infinities and NaNs in the IEEE standard 754 for Binary
   Floating-Point Arithmetic will be simulated in UNIX on the DEC VAX

Not sure about the future of DEC VAX
- do we want to keep the slightly amusing text or what?

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Re: infnan.3

Jan Stary
On Jun 22 14:27:26, [hidden email] wrote:
> lib/libm/man/infnan.3 says
>
>    At some time in the future, some of the useful properties
>    of the Infinities and NaNs in the IEEE standard 754 for Binary
>    Floating-Point Arithmetic will be simulated in UNIX on the DEC VAX
>
> Not sure about the future of DEC VAX
> - do we want to keep the slightly amusing text or what?

Anyway:


Index: lib/libm/man/infnan.3
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/src/lib/libm/man/infnan.3,v
retrieving revision 1.16
diff -u -p -u -p -r1.16 infnan.3
--- lib/libm/man/infnan.3 3 Nov 2013 18:28:27 -0000 1.16
+++ lib/libm/man/infnan.3 22 Jun 2014 12:29:00 -0000
@@ -47,7 +47,7 @@ the Infinities and \*(Nas in the
 .Tn IEEE
 standard 754 for Binary
 Floating\-Point Arithmetic will be simulated in
-.Tn UNIX
+.Ux
 on the
 .Tn DEC VAX
 by using its Reserved Operands.
@@ -62,7 +62,7 @@ in appropriate places in
 .Em libm .
 When
 better exception\-handling is implemented in
-.Tn UNIX ,
+.Ux ,
 only
 .Fn infnan
 among the codes in

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Re: infnan.3

Ingo Schwarze
Hi Jan,

i don't like this particular patch.

It's obvious that whole page needs a content update by a VAX expert.
Quibbling over formatting details is not going to fix it.  Having
old-fashioned formatting actually makes it even more obvious how
old-fashioned the content is.

Regarding the macros in question, in general:

 - .Tn is a mess because it effectively is a presentation-level
   macro (small caps) misnamed to sound like a semantic macro.
   In general, i agree with reducing its usage - but the
   replacement needs to make some sense.

 - .Ux is a mess because it has no useful application any longer.
   As long as most of the code in BSD was actual AT&T code, so
   as long as AT&T code changes more or less automatically ended
   up in BSD sooner or later, it had some scope where it could
   be applied.  But that kind of usage is completely dead since
   4.4-Lite1 at the very latest, and mostly much earlier.
   It was never useful for HISTORY purposes, you really need .At,
   .Bx and friends in that domain.

Yours,
  Ingo


Jan Stary wrote on Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 02:29:56PM +0200:

> Index: lib/libm/man/infnan.3
> ===================================================================
> RCS file: /cvs/src/lib/libm/man/infnan.3,v
> retrieving revision 1.16
> diff -u -p -u -p -r1.16 infnan.3
> --- lib/libm/man/infnan.3 3 Nov 2013 18:28:27 -0000 1.16
> +++ lib/libm/man/infnan.3 22 Jun 2014 12:29:00 -0000
> @@ -47,7 +47,7 @@ the Infinities and \*(Nas in the
>  .Tn IEEE
>  standard 754 for Binary
>  Floating\-Point Arithmetic will be simulated in
> -.Tn UNIX
> +.Ux
>  on the
>  .Tn DEC VAX
>  by using its Reserved Operands.
> @@ -62,7 +62,7 @@ in appropriate places in
>  .Em libm .
>  When
>  better exception\-handling is implemented in
> -.Tn UNIX ,
> +.Ux ,
>  only
>  .Fn infnan
>  among the codes in
>

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Re: infnan.3

Ted Unangst-6
In reply to this post by Jan Stary
On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 17:39, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> Hi Jan,
>
> i don't like this particular patch.
>
> It's obvious that whole page needs a content update by a VAX expert.
> Quibbling over formatting details is not going to fix it.  Having
> old-fashioned formatting actually makes it even more obvious how
> old-fashioned the content is.

I may be out of place, but I think most of the vax specific content
could be better moved to a vax-specific vaxfp man page. When vaxen
were moderately common, such knowledge was useful. Now, I think it's
more likely to simply confuse readers and obfuscate more important
content.

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Re: infnan.3

Ingo Schwarze
Hi Ted,

Ted Unangst wrote on Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 12:57:18PM -0400:
> On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 17:39, Ingo Schwarze wrote:

>> i don't like this particular patch.
>>
>> It's obvious that whole page needs a content update by a VAX expert.
>> Quibbling over formatting details is not going to fix it.  Having
>> old-fashioned formatting actually makes it even more obvious how
>> old-fashioned the content is.

> I may be out of place, but I think most of the vax specific content
> could be better moved to a vax-specific vaxfp man page.

Just for the record, the page Jan is talking about already is
architecture-specific:

  ischwarze@isnote $ apropos infnan
  infnan(3/vax) - signals invalid floating-point operations on a VAX (temporary)
  ischwarze@isnote $ man -S vax -w infnan
  /usr/share/man/man3/vax/infnan.3
  ischwarze@isnote $ man infnan
  man: no entry for infnan in the manual.

Yours,
  Ingo

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Re: infnan.3

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Jan Stary
> It's obvious that whole page needs a content update by a VAX expert.

that is correct.  All the rest of the discussion is moot.

Only miod and martynas can swing this the right way.

I disagree with Ted about making this a seperate page, since that
would remove a vital component of floating point knowledge from
programmers, that being: not all floating point is the same, not all
of it is ieee, and not even ieee implementaiton is consistant.  Some
visibility must remain to show that there is sausage being made here.

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Re: infnan.3

Ingo Schwarze
Hi,

Theo de Raadt wrote on Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 09:09:49AM -0600:
> Ingo Schwarze wrote:

>> It's obvious that whole page needs a content update by a VAX expert.

> that is correct.  All the rest of the discussion is moot.
>
> Only miod and martynas can swing this the right way.
>
> I disagree with Ted about making this a seperate page,

As i said before, infnan(3/vax) already *is* a separate,
architecture-specific, VAX-only page.

It is cross-referenced from various machine independent pages,
though.  I cannot miss the opportunity to show this off:

ischwarze@isnote $ apropos Xr=infnan
atanh, atanhf, atanhl(3) - inverse hyperbolic tangent functions
gamma, gammaf, lgamma, lgammaf, lgammal, tgamma, tgammaf, tgammal(3) - log gamma functions
exp, exp2, exp2f, exp2l, expf, expl, expm1, expm1f, expm1l, log, log10, log10f, log10l, log1p, log1pf, log1pl, log2, log2f, log2l, logf, logl, pow, powf, powl(3) - exponential, logarithm, power functions
asinh, asinhf, asinhl(3) - inverse hyperbolic sine functions
acosh, acoshf, acoshl(3) - inverse hyperbolic cosine functions

Yours,
  Ingo

> since that would remove a vital component of floating point
> knowledge from programmers, that being: not all floating point
> is the same, not all of it is ieee, and not even ieee implementaiton
> is consistant.  Some visibility must remain to show that there is
> sausage being made here.