dylan language

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dylan language

Joe S-3
Today I saw a blog post about a wireshark alternative called
networtnightvision that claims to be more secure than wireshark. I'm
very interested in this because wireshark is just too dangerous to run,
IMO. Anyways, the sniffer is written in dylan. I have never heard of
dylan before. Here is a snippet from a paper [0] which the author claims:

~~~~snip from the paper~~~~
Since we noticed a lack of a decent secure framework for handling
network packets, we have designed and implemented major parts of a
TCP/IP stack in the high level programming language Dylan, focusing on
security, performance and code reuse.

Dylan is a high level language that provides a number of features to
detect and prevent data reference failures, one of the most common
sources of vulnerabilities in C software.

Bounds checks for array accesses are inserted where needed by the
compiler. Also a garbage collector is used, avoiding the need to care
about manual memory management, and preventing bugs from early frees or
double frees. Dylan is strongly typed, so bypassing the type system by
doing casts and pointer arithmetic is not possible.
~~~~snip from the paper~~~~


Is this for real? I figured if anyone could shed some light on this, an
OpenBSD developer might be able to comment on this "dylan" language. I'm
not looking to learn dylan, but am just wondering if this is legit. I
wouldn't mind running one of these tools if they are indeed "safer" to
run than wireshark. (yes i use tcpdump regularly)



[0] http://www.opendylan.org/~hannes/secure-networking.pdf

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Re: dylan language

Marc Espie-2
On Fri, Dec 22, 2006 at 11:42:44AM -0800, Joe wrote:
>
> Is this for real? I figured if anyone could shed some light on this, an
> OpenBSD developer might be able to comment on this "dylan" language. I'm
> not looking to learn dylan, but am just wondering if this is legit. I
> wouldn't mind running one of these tools if they are indeed "safer" to
> run than wireshark. (yes i use tcpdump regularly)

I have the beginning of a port of gwydiondylan, there are still a lot
of issues to fix. The byte-code compiler (mindy) is slow as hell, d2c doesn't
quite work for me yet. Outside of that, dylan->binary does not work on a
range of architectures.

Dylan reminds me of haskell. Both are high-level languages, better than
sliced bread, and *everything* you want to build with them involves
compilation speeds that make g++ look like it's the fastest thing out
there...

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Re: dylan language

Darren S.
In reply to this post by Joe S-3
On 12/22/06, Joe <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Today I saw a blog post about a wireshark alternative called
> networtnightvision that claims to be more secure than wireshark. I'm
> very interested in this because wireshark is just too dangerous to run,
> IMO. Anyways, the sniffer is written in dylan. I have never heard of
> dylan before. Here is a snippet from a paper [0] which the author claims:

[snip]

> Is this for real? I figured if anyone could shed some light on this, an
> OpenBSD developer might be able to comment on this "dylan" language. I'm
> not looking to learn dylan, but am just wondering if this is legit. I
> wouldn't mind running one of these tools if they are indeed "safer" to
> run than wireshark. (yes i use tcpdump regularly)

The CCC also had some features on the use of Dylan and its role in the
design of a new network analysis framework. Some other things they
mention in relation are the implementation of a userland TCP/iP stack
and the challenge to keep performance reasonable (a noble goal
considering the rising link speeds we need to analyze).

At that time networknightvision is referred to as PoC only. It's
reported to have a fraction of the features of Ethereal and Dylan's
resulting compiled code is reported to be "a little slower than Perl."
To me it sounds like something that is in a bit of an infancy.

DS

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Re: dylan language

John Wright-6
In reply to this post by Joe S-3
On Fri, Dec 22, 2006 at 11:42:44AM -0800, Joe wrote:
> Today I saw a blog post about a wireshark alternative called
> networtnightvision that claims to be more secure than wireshark. I'm
> very interested in this because wireshark is just too dangerous to run,
> IMO. Anyways, the sniffer is written in dylan. I have never heard of
> dylan before. Here is a snippet from a paper [0] which the author claims:

Isn't Dylan the one that Apple were talking about around the same time that
Sun released Java?