cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

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cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

Bryan Vyhmeister-2
I am attempting to run OpenBSD/mac68k 3.9 on a Color Classic that has  
been upgraded with an LC 575 motherboard and full 68040 but without  
the 640x480 video hack. In order to run Mac OS 7.5.5, I had to change  
an item in the System file for the Gestalt ID 99 from Boot Process 21  
to 10. I get the same bus error in OpenBSD/mac68k that I got with  
System 7.5.5 before being patched (it looks different but the error  
is the same). Any idea if modifying sys/arch/mac68k/include/cpu.h to  
read Gestalt 99 instead of 92 for the LC 575 would have any effect? I  
would just try it and rebuild the kernel but that takes a very long  
time so I thought I would ask first before I try it.

Bryan

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Re: cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

Martin Reindl-3
Bryan Vyhmeister <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am attempting to run OpenBSD/mac68k 3.9 on a Color Classic that has  
> been upgraded with an LC 575 motherboard and full 68040 but without  
> the 640x480 video hack. In order to run Mac OS 7.5.5, I had to change  
> an item in the System file for the Gestalt ID 99 from Boot Process 21  
> to 10. I get the same bus error in OpenBSD/mac68k that I got with  
> System 7.5.5 before being patched (it looks different but the error  
> is the same). Any idea if modifying sys/arch/mac68k/include/cpu.h to  
> read Gestalt 99 instead of 92 for the LC 575 would have any effect? I  
> would just try it and rebuild the kernel but that takes a very long  
> time so I thought I would ask first before I try it.

Hard to say without knowing the exact error. You can try and just build
a kernel overnight.

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Re: cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

Thomas Carlson-2
In reply to this post by Bryan Vyhmeister-2
Hmm...  I thought this list was dead and gone.  Bryan, hope you aren't
expecting a response from anyone else trying to run OpenBSD on old Macs
like a Color Classic.  This distribution has stopped supporting that
machine (PDS slot ethernet) and the likes of my Powerbook 180 a long
time ago.

Much more support for old mac68k iron over at NetBSD.

Tom

On Sep 20, 2006, at 8:34 PM, Bryan Vyhmeister wrote:

> I am attempting to run OpenBSD/mac68k 3.9 on a Color Classic that has
> been upgraded with an LC 575 motherboard and full 68040 but without
> the 640x480 video hack. In order to run Mac OS 7.5.5, I had to change
> an item in the System file for the Gestalt ID 99 from Boot Process 21
> to 10. I get the same bus error in OpenBSD/mac68k that I got with
> System 7.5.5 before being patched (it looks different but the error is
> the same). Any idea if modifying sys/arch/mac68k/include/cpu.h to read
> Gestalt 99 instead of 92 for the LC 575 would have any effect? I would
> just try it and rebuild the kernel but that takes a very long time so
> I thought I would ask first before I try it.
>
> Bryan

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Re: cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

Miod Vallat
In reply to this post by Martin Reindl-3
>> I am attempting to run OpenBSD/mac68k 3.9 on a Color Classic that has
>> been upgraded with an LC 575 motherboard and full 68040 but without
>> the 640x480 video hack. In order to run Mac OS 7.5.5, I had to change
>> an item in the System file for the Gestalt ID 99 from Boot Process 21
>> to 10. I get the same bus error in OpenBSD/mac68k that I got with
>> System 7.5.5 before being patched (it looks different but the error
>> is the same). Any idea if modifying sys/arch/mac68k/include/cpu.h to
>> read Gestalt 99 instead of 92 for the LC 575 would have any effect? I
>> would just try it and rebuild the kernel but that takes a very long
>> time so I thought I would ask first before I try it.
>
> Hard to say without knowing the exact error. You can try and just build
> a kernel overnight.

 From a code point of view, LC575 (Gestalt 92) and Performa 580 (Gestalt 99)
are completely identical (except for the machine description string), so
this will hardly change anything.

Miod

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Re: cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

Bryan Vyhmeister-2
In reply to this post by Martin Reindl-3
On Sep 20, 2006, at 11:20 PM, Martin Reindl wrote:

> Bryan Vyhmeister <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I am attempting to run OpenBSD/mac68k 3.9 on a Color Classic that has
>> been upgraded with an LC 575 motherboard and full 68040 but without
>> the 640x480 video hack. In order to run Mac OS 7.5.5, I had to change
>> an item in the System file for the Gestalt ID 99 from Boot Process 21
>> to 10. I get the same bus error in OpenBSD/mac68k that I got with
>> System 7.5.5 before being patched (it looks different but the error
>> is the same). Any idea if modifying sys/arch/mac68k/include/cpu.h to
>> read Gestalt 99 instead of 92 for the LC 575 would have any effect? I
>> would just try it and rebuild the kernel but that takes a very long
>> time so I thought I would ask first before I try it.
>
> Hard to say without knowing the exact error. You can try and just  
> build
> a kernel overnight.

I will try it but I have to get src mounted using NFS and all first.  
I'll try to get it done today.

Bryan

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Re: cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

Martin Reindl-3
Bryan Vyhmeister <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sep 20, 2006, at 11:20 PM, Martin Reindl wrote:
>
> > Bryan Vyhmeister <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> I am attempting to run OpenBSD/mac68k 3.9 on a Color Classic that has
> >> been upgraded with an LC 575 motherboard and full 68040 but without
> >> the 640x480 video hack. In order to run Mac OS 7.5.5, I had to change
> >> an item in the System file for the Gestalt ID 99 from Boot Process 21
> >> to 10. I get the same bus error in OpenBSD/mac68k that I got with
> >> System 7.5.5 before being patched (it looks different but the error
> >> is the same). Any idea if modifying sys/arch/mac68k/include/cpu.h to
> >> read Gestalt 99 instead of 92 for the LC 575 would have any effect? I
> >> would just try it and rebuild the kernel but that takes a very long
> >> time so I thought I would ask first before I try it.
> >
> > Hard to say without knowing the exact error. You can try and just  
> > build
> > a kernel overnight.
>
> I will try it but I have to get src mounted using NFS and all first.  
> I'll try to get it done today.
>
> Bryan

Don't bother, see Miod's previous mail. Please provide the full error
message instead.

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Re: cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

Bryan Vyhmeister-2
In reply to this post by Thomas Carlson-2
On Sep 21, 2006, at 7:13 AM, Thomas Carlson wrote:

> Hmm...  I thought this list was dead and gone.  Bryan, hope you  
> aren't expecting a response from anyone else trying to run OpenBSD  
> on old Macs like a Color Classic.  This distribution has stopped  
> supporting that machine (PDS slot ethernet) and the likes of my  
> Powerbook 180 a long time ago.
>
> Much more support for old mac68k iron over at NetBSD.

I understand. I prefer OpenBSD. I have tried running NetBSD recently  
and I have had a number of issues with stability. Those have not been  
the case with OpenBSD in my experience so I would prefer to stick  
with it. Note that this machine is not really a Color Classic anymore  
from the logic board point of view but actually an LC 575. I'm not  
sure what the bus error relates to exactly but I am going to try to  
figure it out.

I recognize it is not supported but I am running OpenBSD/mac68k 3.9  
on an SE/30 right now and it runs fine aside from the fact it is very  
slow because of the 16 MHz 68030. The shell is sluggish but isn't bad  
except for very slow initial login with ssh.

Bryan

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Re: cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

Bryan Vyhmeister-2
In reply to this post by Miod Vallat
On Sep 21, 2006, at 7:34 AM, Miod Vallat wrote:

> From a code point of view, LC575 (Gestalt 92) and Performa 580  
> (Gestalt 99)
> are completely identical (except for the machine description  
> string), so
> this will hardly change anything.

I wondered about that. Any idea what "boot process" would have to do  
with in relation to OpenBSD? The details of what I had to do to get  
Mac OS 7.5.5 to run are here:

http://www.colourclassicfaq.com/mobo/mystic.shtml

Bryan

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Re: cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

Bryan Vyhmeister-2
In reply to this post by Thomas Carlson-2
Thank you for all the replies. In searching around on the NetBSD/
mac68k list archives, I found a post related to this precise issue. I  
installed the BSD/mac68k Booter version 2.0 from NetBSD and in the  
settings, you can manually change the machine ID. I changed it from  
99 to 92. Now it is booting just fine. I am attempting to install  
now. I will post more later on how it goes.

Bryan

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Re: cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

Joel Rees
In reply to this post by Bryan Vyhmeister-2
On 2006/09/22, at 4:19, Bryan Vyhmeister wrote:

> On Sep 21, 2006, at 7:34 AM, Miod Vallat wrote:
>
>> From a code point of view, LC575 (Gestalt 92) and Performa 580  
>> (Gestalt 99)
>> are completely identical (except for the machine description  
>> string), so
>> this will hardly change anything.
>
> I wondered about that. Any idea what "boot process" would have to  
> do with in relation to OpenBSD?

Could you unpack that question a little?

> The details of what I had to do to get Mac OS 7.5.5 to run are here:
>
> http://www.colourclassicfaq.com/mobo/mystic.shtml

Man, I wish I had that much time on my hands, not to mention the  
space for old hardware, and the apparently cheap electricity.

While we're at it, let's try to port obsd to the old 6809. ;->

It would appear from your site that you have a spare old Mac. If you  
have a printer cable and an old copy of ClarisWorks (was bundled with  
many of the consumer Macs), there's a sort of decent terminal  
emulator in ClarisWorks. (I don't remember if there was a terminal  
emulator in AppleWorks 5.) That would allow you to capture the error  
messages and other relevant output during boot without having to  
filter it through your eyeballs and fingertips. (Hint, hint.)

(Hint. Hint.)

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Re: cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

Allen Briggs
On Fri, Sep 22, 2006 at 08:46:07PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
> It would appear from your site that you have a spare old Mac. If you  
> have a printer cable and an old copy of ClarisWorks (was bundled with  
> many of the consumer Macs), there's a sort of decent terminal  
> emulator in ClarisWorks.

There's also ZTerm, which I think was freeware or maybe low-cost
shareware back in the 68k's heydays.  Serial consoles are invaluable.

-allen

--
Allen Briggs  |  http://www.ninthwonder.com/~briggs/  |  [hidden email]

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Re: cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

Bryan Vyhmeister-2
In reply to this post by Joel Rees
On Sep 22, 2006, at 4:46 AM, Joel Rees wrote:

> Man, I wish I had that much time on my hands, not to mention the  
> space for old hardware, and the apparently cheap electricity.
>
> While we're at it, let's try to port obsd to the old 6809. ;->
>
> It would appear from your site that you have a spare old Mac. If  
> you have a printer cable and an old copy of ClarisWorks (was  
> bundled with many of the consumer Macs), there's a sort of decent  
> terminal emulator in ClarisWorks. (I don't remember if there was a  
> terminal emulator in AppleWorks 5.) That would allow you to capture  
> the error messages and other relevant output during boot without  
> having to filter it through your eyeballs and fingertips. (Hint,  
> hint.)

I get the hint. I need to set that up but I haven't had a chance to  
yet. The Color Classic/LC 575 is running great so far since I used  
BSD/mac68k Booter 2.0.0 (which I noticed is used in OpenBSD 4.0) and  
set the Machine ID to 92.

Bryan

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Re: cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

Bryan Vyhmeister-2
In reply to this post by Bryan Vyhmeister-2
On Sep 22, 2006, at 6:34 AM, Thomas Carlson wrote:

> You got me curious now.  How do you plan to connect your machine to  
> a network?  The serial cable/null modem route?  Or, is there an se0  
> driver in OpenBSD that would support the old Cabletron EA4-- series  
> SCSI-ethernet adaptors?

Both the SE/30 and Color Classic/LC 575 have 10base-T ethernet  
installed using an expansion board. The LC 575 board is using the LC  
PDS Nubus slot (I think that is what it is called) and I don't  
remember what slot the SE/30 is using but it works fine. The LC 575  
comes up with an sn0 interface and the SE/30 with an ae0 interface.

Bryan

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Re: cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

Miod Vallat
In reply to this post by Thomas Carlson-2
> Hmm...  I thought this list was dead and gone.  Bryan, hope you aren't
> expecting a response from anyone else trying to run OpenBSD on old Macs
> like a Color Classic.  This distribution has stopped supporting that
> machine (PDS slot ethernet) and the likes of my Powerbook 180 a long
> time ago.
>
> Much more support for old mac68k iron over at NetBSD.

I disagree.

While the main focus of OpenBSD/mac68k is on fast 68030 and 68040
machines, there has been a lot of work over the last 12-18 months to
bring the mac68k port back in a very good shape.

However, PowerBooks and systems with IDE disks are not being worked on,
mainly because of a lack of hardware rather than because of a lack of
interest (anyone got a spare PowerBook 550c ?). This does not mean they
don't work to a decent level.

As for ``old iron'' used on a mac... this sounds like an oxymoron to
me (-:

Miod

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Re: cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

Bryan Vyhmeister-2
On Sep 25, 2006, at 3:34 PM, Miod Vallat wrote:

> While the main focus of OpenBSD/mac68k is on fast 68030 and 68040
> machines, there has been a lot of work over the last 12-18 months to
> bring the mac68k port back in a very good shape.

I'm really glad to hear that! The reality of it is, these machines  
can still be useful and it is great to be able to run a world-class  
operating system on them. I enjoy it and I know others do too. It's fun.

> However, PowerBooks and systems with IDE disks are not being worked  
> on,
> mainly because of a lack of hardware rather than because of a lack of
> interest (anyone got a spare PowerBook 550c ?). This does not mean  
> they
> don't work to a decent level.

IDE support wouldn't be a priority in my list because SCSI works  
better especially with slow machines because of its greater  
intelligence so to speak. As for PowerBook support, I've been trying  
to get my hands on a PowerBook 550c for years now. I have a regular  
search running on eBay and nothing has turned up for a very long  
time. I tried to find one using other sources too and one person said  
he was going to sell his and then I never heard from him again. I  
assume he decided not to sell or found another buyer. I don't know.

> As for ``old iron'' used on a mac... this sounds like an oxymoron to
> me (-:

I agree completely!! Thanks for your comments. They are very  
encouraging.

Bryan

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Re: cpu.h and Color Classic/LC 575

Thomas Carlson-2
In reply to this post by Miod Vallat
On Sep 25, 2006, at 3:34 PM, Miod Vallat wrote:

>> Hmm...  I thought this list was dead and gone.  Bryan, hope you aren't
>> expecting a response from anyone else trying to run OpenBSD on old
>> Macs
>> like a Color Classic.  This distribution has stopped supporting that
>> machine (PDS slot ethernet) and the likes of my Powerbook 180 a long
>> time ago.
>>
>> Much more support for old mac68k iron over at NetBSD.
>
> I disagree.
>
> While the main focus of OpenBSD/mac68k is on fast 68030 and 68040
> machines, there has been a lot of work over the last 12-18 months to
> bring the mac68k port back in a very good shape.

That's good to hear.  OpenBSD was always a bit smug about not including
ethernet drivers and the like for the older, more limited hardware.  To
be smug about one's Quadra... that must seem hilarious to anyone from
outside the mac68k community who wonders why we are bothering with any
of this old junk to begin with.

>
> However, PowerBooks and systems with IDE disks are not being worked on,
> mainly because of a lack of hardware rather than because of a lack of
> interest (anyone got a spare PowerBook 550c ?). This does not mean they
> don't work to a decent level.

Actually, most older PowerBooks, my 180 included, are SCSI, not IDE.  I
am using a 1.3 GIG SCSI converted ATA drive that works just fine with
NetBSD 1.5.3.  The biggest limitation these old 'books have, other than
the 14MB RAM limit, is that the only way they can be connected to a
network is through a serial port or a SCSI-ethernet adapter such as the
Cabletron EA414 I have.  NetBSD has an se0 driver for it included in
their generic kernel, but I have yet to figure out how to get the
device to work.

>
> As for ``old iron'' used on a mac... this sounds like an oxymoron to
> me (-:

I was being ironic, pardon the pun.

>
> Miod