considering a move to OpenBSD

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considering a move to OpenBSD

Charlie Eddy
hello misc,

I am considering a move to OpenBSD, since I subscribed to this mailing list
some time ago (~few months). I want to take advantage of security.

However, a programmer who I know personally and respect considers OpenBSD
to be old-school, in a negative sense. He recommends Arch Linux as
superior, because more new. Does the difference boil down to one's
definition of free software, and then compliance with that definition?

I have read up on this a lot, and this is a serious question. I have heard
that it is unimportant what *nix you're on after a few years of using one
or the other, in terms of functionality. I am interested in embedded
devices. I think that bends the needle towards Arch, but the security of
OpenBSD is also attractive. What considerations should I take into account?

Regards,
Charlie
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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Jeroen
Hi,

OpenBSD has a clear and proactive stance when it comes to security,
while Arch does not. If you want to stay atop of new developments, feel
free to try -current. If you need a very stable environment, go with
-stable. Don't expect to find that latter one in Arch, as it works with
a rolling release model.

I can talk hours and hours why OpenBSD is superior to Linux, but a part
of that is a matter of personal preference. This non-technical blog
post might be somewhat to rather interesting for you. I have written it
about a year ago, it's not perfect, nor is it complete:

https://h3artbl33d.nl/blog/?p=15

And yeah, it's WordPress. Sorry about that.

Regards,
J.

On Thu, 2018-02-08 at 13:41 -0800, Charlie Eddy wrote:

> hello misc,
>
> I am considering a move to OpenBSD, since I subscribed to this mailing list
> some time ago (~few months). I want to take advantage of security.
>
> However, a programmer who I know personally and respect considers OpenBSD
> to be old-school, in a negative sense. He recommends Arch Linux as
> superior, because more new. Does the difference boil down to one's
> definition of free software, and then compliance with that definition?
>
> I have read up on this a lot, and this is a serious question. I have heard
> that it is unimportant what *nix you're on after a few years of using one
> or the other, in terms of functionality. I am interested in embedded
> devices. I think that bends the needle towards Arch, but the security of
> OpenBSD is also attractive. What considerations should I take into account?
>
> Regards,
> Charlie

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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Michael Price
In reply to this post by Charlie Eddy
If your programmer friend has any source code patches he would like to
submit then I am sure the project would love to have them.

On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 4:58 PM Charlie Eddy <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> hello misc,
>
> I am considering a move to OpenBSD, since I subscribed to this mailing list
> some time ago (~few months). I want to take advantage of security.
>
> However, a programmer who I know personally and respect considers OpenBSD
> to be old-school, in a negative sense. He recommends Arch Linux as
> superior, because more new. Does the difference boil down to one's
> definition of free software, and then compliance with that definition?
>
> I have read up on this a lot, and this is a serious question. I have heard
> that it is unimportant what *nix you're on after a few years of using one
> or the other, in terms of functionality. I am interested in embedded
> devices. I think that bends the needle towards Arch, but the security of
> OpenBSD is also attractive. What considerations should I take into account?
>
> Regards,
> Charlie
>
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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

msheremet
In reply to this post by Charlie Eddy
On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 13:41:20 -0800
Charlie Eddy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> hello misc,
>
> I am considering a move to OpenBSD

Where from?

>
> However, a programmer who I know personally and respect considers
> OpenBSD to be old-school, in a negative sense. He recommends Arch
> Linux as superior, because more new. Does the difference boil down to
> one's definition of free software, and then compliance with that
> definition?

I don't think so. I've been a daily user of both OpenBSD and Arch Linux
for the last several years. And I can't switch completely to either
one.

>
> I have read up on this a lot, and this is a serious question. I have
> heard that it is unimportant what *nix you're on after a few years of
> using one or the other, in terms of functionality.

IMHO it's far from true.

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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Kevin Chadwick-4
In reply to this post by Charlie Eddy
On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 13:41:20 -0800


> Does the difference boil down to one's
> definition of free software, and then compliance with that definition?

There is a huge difference. Arch is at the whim of Linux which is far
behind even the Windows kernel in mitigations (which is far
behind OpenBSD) because it doesn't really care about security but only
uptime and OpenBSD base is also a very tight and secure implementation
that beats putting Arch packages together hands down.

If you care more about uptime than secure uptime then Arch may be a
good choice though in my experience a number of years ago were that
their updates were unreliable and I knew I could do a better job
myself. That has never happened on OpenBSD. So perhaps another distro
even, in that case!

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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Tom Smyth
In reply to this post by Jeroen
Hi Charlie,
https://sivers.org/openbsd is another good site to view :)
@Joren that is commitment the Tat :)


Thanks
Tom Smyth

On 8 February 2018 at 22:12, Jeroen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> OpenBSD has a clear and proactive stance when it comes to security,
> while Arch does not. If you want to stay atop of new developments, feel
> free to try -current. If you need a very stable environment, go with
> -stable. Don't expect to find that latter one in Arch, as it works with
> a rolling release model.
>
> I can talk hours and hours why OpenBSD is superior to Linux, but a part
> of that is a matter of personal preference. This non-technical blog
> post might be somewhat to rather interesting for you. I have written it
> about a year ago, it's not perfect, nor is it complete:
>
> https://h3artbl33d.nl/blog/?p=15
>
> And yeah, it's WordPress. Sorry about that.
>
> Regards,
> J.
>
> On Thu, 2018-02-08 at 13:41 -0800, Charlie Eddy wrote:
>> hello misc,
>>
>> I am considering a move to OpenBSD, since I subscribed to this mailing list
>> some time ago (~few months). I want to take advantage of security.
>>
>> However, a programmer who I know personally and respect considers OpenBSD
>> to be old-school, in a negative sense. He recommends Arch Linux as
>> superior, because more new. Does the difference boil down to one's
>> definition of free software, and then compliance with that definition?
>>
>> I have read up on this a lot, and this is a serious question. I have heard
>> that it is unimportant what *nix you're on after a few years of using one
>> or the other, in terms of functionality. I am interested in embedded
>> devices. I think that bends the needle towards Arch, but the security of
>> OpenBSD is also attractive. What considerations should I take into account?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Charlie
>

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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Steve Litt
In reply to this post by Charlie Eddy
On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 13:41:20 -0800
Charlie Eddy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> hello misc,
>
> I am considering a move to OpenBSD, since I subscribed to this
> mailing list some time ago (~few months). I want to take advantage of
> security.
>
> However, a programmer who I know personally and respect considers
> OpenBSD to be old-school, in a negative sense. He recommends Arch
> Linux as superior, because more new. Does the difference boil down to
> one's definition of free software, and then compliance with that
> definition?
>
> I have read up on this a lot, and this is a serious question. I have
> heard that it is unimportant what *nix you're on after a few years of
> using one or the other, in terms of functionality. I am interested in
> embedded devices. I think that bends the needle towards Arch, but the
> security of OpenBSD is also attractive. What considerations should I
> take into account?

If installability on embedded devices is a requirement, I think that
would rule out a whole bunch of BSDs and Linux distros.

About your friend: There's a logical fallacy called "Appeal to Novelty"
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_novelty) If your experience is
anything like mine, household appliances installed in the 1980's tended
to last almost 20 years, whereas appliances in the 2010's tend to last
about six. Sometimes newer is better, sometimes it's not. Arch Linux
uses the relatively new systemd init system/OS controller/Desktop aid.
It's such a mess that nobody's ever been able to draw its block diagram,
complete with boxes and arrows.

My main OS right now is Void Linux, but when I used OpenBSD I was
impressed with how everything worked exactly the same, every single
time. This is subjective,  but I view OpenBSD as the most solid OS I've
ever run.

SteveT

Steve Litt
January 2018 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother?
http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb

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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Daniel Bolgheroni-6
In reply to this post by Charlie Eddy
On Thu, Feb 08, 2018 at 09:41:20PM +0000, Charlie Eddy wrote:

> hello misc,
>
> I am considering a move to OpenBSD, since I subscribed to this mailing list
> some time ago (~few months). I want to take advantage of security.
>
> However, a programmer who I know personally and respect considers OpenBSD
> to be old-school, in a negative sense. He recommends Arch Linux as
> superior, because more new. Does the difference boil down to one's
> definition of free software, and then compliance with that definition?
>
> I have read up on this a lot, and this is a serious question. I have heard
> that it is unimportant what *nix you're on after a few years of using one
> or the other, in terms of functionality. I am interested in embedded
> devices. I think that bends the needle towards Arch, but the security of
> OpenBSD is also attractive. What considerations should I take into account?

I don't think that, if you ask the same question on an Arch Linux
mailing list, people will suggest you to run OpenBSD. Since you're on an
OpenBSD mailing list, the odds are people here will... nevermind.

There are a lot (really, a lot) of things you should consider.
Honestly, these opiniated, one-sentence answers like these should ring
bells on your head, and work as an alert (because it's newer? really?).

That being said, the mindset of "going to shop" when choosing software
(e.g. comparing project features to see which one "offers more for the
lowest price") is just wrong. What do you really need? "Embedded",
"security" or any single-worded reason won't say much.

No words here will spare you the work you have to do by yourself. Install
it and put it to work. Then, then take your own conclusions.

--
db

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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Charlie Eddy
Thanks Daniel. Definitely the correct answer.

On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 4:07 PM, Daniel Bolgheroni <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 08, 2018 at 09:41:20PM +0000, Charlie Eddy wrote:
> > hello misc,
> >
> > I am considering a move to OpenBSD, since I subscribed to this mailing
> list
> > some time ago (~few months). I want to take advantage of security.
> >
> > However, a programmer who I know personally and respect considers OpenBSD
> > to be old-school, in a negative sense. He recommends Arch Linux as
> > superior, because more new. Does the difference boil down to one's
> > definition of free software, and then compliance with that definition?
> >
> > I have read up on this a lot, and this is a serious question. I have
> heard
> > that it is unimportant what *nix you're on after a few years of using one
> > or the other, in terms of functionality. I am interested in embedded
> > devices. I think that bends the needle towards Arch, but the security of
> > OpenBSD is also attractive. What considerations should I take into
> account?
>
> I don't think that, if you ask the same question on an Arch Linux
> mailing list, people will suggest you to run OpenBSD. Since you're on an
> OpenBSD mailing list, the odds are people here will... nevermind.
>
> There are a lot (really, a lot) of things you should consider.
> Honestly, these opiniated, one-sentence answers like these should ring
> bells on your head, and work as an alert (because it's newer? really?).
>
> That being said, the mindset of "going to shop" when choosing software
> (e.g. comparing project features to see which one "offers more for the
> lowest price") is just wrong. What do you really need? "Embedded",
> "security" or any single-worded reason won't say much.
>
> No words here will spare you the work you have to do by yourself. Install
> it and put it to work. Then, then take your own conclusions.
>
> --
> db
>
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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Jeffrey Joshua Rollin
In reply to this post by Steve Litt
On 8 Feb 2018 23:23, "Steve Litt" <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Thu, 8 Feb 2018 13:41:20 -0800
Charlie Eddy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> hello misc,
>
> I am considering a move to OpenBSD, since I subscribed to this
> mailing list some time ago (~few months). I want to take advantage of
> security.
>
> However, a programmer who I know personally and respect considers
> OpenBSD to be old-school, in a negative sense. He recommends Arch
> Linux as superior, because more new. Does the difference boil down to
> one's definition of free software, and then compliance with that
> definition?
>
> I have read up on this a lot, and this is a serious question. I have
> heard that it is unimportant what *nix you're on after a few years of
> using one or the other, in terms of functionality. I am interested in
> embedded devices. I think that bends the needle towards Arch, but the
> security of OpenBSD is also attractive. What considerations should I
> take into account?

If installability on embedded devices is a requirement, I think that
would rule out a whole bunch of BSDs and Linux distros.

About your friend: There's a logical fallacy called "Appeal to Novelty"
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_novelty) If your experience is
anything like mine, household appliances installed in the 1980's tended
to last almost 20 years, whereas appliances in the 2010's tend to last
about six. Sometimes newer is better, sometimes it's not. Arch Linux
uses the relatively new systemd init system/OS controller/Desktop aid.
It's such a mess that nobody's ever been able to draw its block diagram,
complete with boxes and arrows.

My main OS right now is Void Linux, but when I used OpenBSD I was
impressed with how everything worked exactly the same, every single
time. This is subjective,  but I view OpenBSD as the most solid OS I've
ever run.

SteveT


Hardware support won't be as good as in Linux, but it's probably the BSD
with the greatest level of hardware support out of the box, for PCs, plus
it installs X11 out of the box (if you want); by default, though, OpenBSD's
implementation of X11 is primitive, if you're coming from Linux, but can be
made more user-friendly and attractive. WiFi support (more precisely
switching networks) is still a pain; and I've come to the conclusion that
I'm obsessed with fonts, because I seem to be the only one who thinks ALL
Unices' fonts suck out of the box, though they can be improved greatly in
Linux. I haven't yet got them looking great in OpenBSD, but maybe you'll
have better luck/won't care. I can't speak to security because I wouldn't
know a vulnerability if it bit me on the arse, but sometimes the stability
of (userspace) software can be overrated (GDM
for example can be unstable on my system, but then GNOME3 always is, and I
use GDM only under duress, because it's the best desktop manager available
on OPENBSD, IMO (the fact that I use MATE or XFCE, not the execrable GNOME,
as my desktop might be a factor in GDM's instability.

Oh, and proprietary or freemium software (even browsers like Chrome and
Vivaldi) are hard to come by.

 Jeff

PS if you're ONLY interested in embedded devices, try NetBSD too - it even
runs on toasters. (This used to be a joke, but now it really does.)


Steve Litt
January 2018 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother?
http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb
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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Leonid Bobrov
In reply to this post by Charlie Eddy
On Thu, Feb 08, 2018 at 01:41:20PM -0800, Charlie Eddy wrote:
> hello misc,
>

Hi!

> I am considering a move to OpenBSD, since I subscribed to this mailing list
> some time ago (~few months). I want to take advantage of security.
>

Good, go ahead, all doors are open.

> However, a programmer who I know personally and respect considers OpenBSD
> to be old-school, in a negative sense. He recommends Arch Linux as
> superior, because more new. Does the difference boil down to one's
> definition of free software, and then compliance with that definition?
>

It's good to listen opinions and have advices. But remember you have
your own opinion, so make your own choice and say aloud: I CHOOSE TO!!!

Also I don't understand what does it mean more new. If you mean new
features, Linux is chaotic, so if number of features is more important
to you than quality of OS, then Arch Linux is really a good choice.

> I have read up on this a lot, and this is a serious question. I have heard
> that it is unimportant what *nix you're on after a few years of using one
> or the other, in terms of functionality. I am interested in embedded
> devices. I think that bends the needle towards Arch, but the security of
> OpenBSD is also attractive. What considerations should I take into account?
>

It is really important what Unix-like OS you're using, first of all it
matters to you. Make your choice depending on what you want technically.

I don't use Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, DragonFlyBSD or any other Unix-like
OS because they don't meet my needs. OpenBSD has everything I can't live
without. I choose security, simplicity and code quality.
 
> Regards,
> Charlie
>

Regards,
Leonid Bobrov

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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Edgar Pettijohn III-2


On 02/08/18 19:28, mazocomp wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 08, 2018 at 01:41:20PM -0800, Charlie Eddy wrote:
>> hello misc,
>>
> Hi!
>
>> I am considering a move to OpenBSD, since I subscribed to this mailing list
>> some time ago (~few months). I want to take advantage of security.
>>
> Good, go ahead, all doors are open.
>
>> However, a programmer who I know personally and respect considers OpenBSD
>> to be old-school, in a negative sense. He recommends Arch Linux as
>> superior, because more new. Does the difference boil down to one's
>> definition of free software, and then compliance with that definition?
>>
> It's good to listen opinions and have advices. But remember you have
> your own opinion, so make your own choice and say aloud: I CHOOSE TO!!!
>
> Also I don't understand what does it mean more new. If you mean new
> features, Linux is chaotic, so if number of features is more important
> to you than quality of OS, then Arch Linux is really a good choice.
>
>> I have read up on this a lot, and this is a serious question. I have heard
>> that it is unimportant what *nix you're on after a few years of using one
>> or the other, in terms of functionality. I am interested in embedded
>> devices. I think that bends the needle towards Arch, but the security of
>> OpenBSD is also attractive. What considerations should I take into account?
>>
> It is really important what Unix-like OS you're using, first of all it
> matters to you. Make your choice depending on what you want technically.
>
> I don't use Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, DragonFlyBSD or any other Unix-like
> OS because they don't meet my needs. OpenBSD has everything I can't live
> without. I choose security, simplicity and code quality.
>  
>> Regards,
>> Charlie
>>
> Regards,
> Leonid Bobrov
>
I find all Linux's to be overly complicated. I installed Debian on a
desktop for
my 7 year old to play minecraft. First off it took forever to download
and install.
My piss poor internet connection is to blame for most of that time though.
However, anytime I want to install something else and I go man "new
program".
Guess what no f-ing man page. I have to install a separate doc package.
I'm kind of
glad that they automatically start servers and what not, because I'm not
sure I could
bear to read the systemd manual to figure out how to start them. The
other BSD's
aren't even close in my opinion.  FreeBSD is ok, but for a desktop you
don't even
start out with a basic X to get going.  You have to install it
separately.  NetBSD is ok,
but it seemed like everytime I went to install a package it wouldn't
build or the defaults
weren't what I needed.  It's rare to find an OpenBSD package not be spot
on plus there
is almost always additional information from the packager I assume in
/usr/local/share/doc/pkg-readme/.
I think the only Linux distro that I don't mind using is Slackware, but
I feel it is in need
of some cleaning. It's nice that it comes stock with sooooo much, but
it's also kind of
annoying. I haven't tried DragonFly, but I'm guessing it is probably a
lot like FreeBSD.

I say install it on a usb stick and give it a whirl. It does everything
I need it to do.

Edgar

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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Consus-2
In reply to this post by Jeroen
On 23:12 Thu 08 Feb, Jeroen wrote:
> I can talk hours and hours why OpenBSD is superior to Linux

It is possible to list all block devices (with type and size) with one
command? You now, like lsblk(8) in Linux.

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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Philipp Buehler
Am 09.02.2018 10:27 schrieb Consus:
> It is possible to list all block devices (with type and size) with one
> command? You now, like lsblk(8) in Linux.

You're implying..

# lsblk
bash: lsblk: command not found

And just that is already a reason, I do not like "Linux" very much.

--
pb

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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

John Wilkes-2
In reply to this post by Charlie Eddy
Another perspective. Not to do with embedded systems, but the quality
of OpenBSD documentation.
 
My job is as a technical editor. I write documentation for email
encryption software based on a Debian platform (but mainly administered
in the browser, to be fair). I know exactly how documentation is viewed
(if at all) and the last thing that most users do when they need help is
to click the 'Help' button.
 
Most people search the internet looking for solutions to their problem.
They often find it - they wouldn't bother doing that in the first place
if that weren't true. Along the way, they'll find lots of outdated and
plain wrong stuff that just wastes time.
 
A few years ago, wearying of the incessant need to reinvent the wheel in
the Linux world, I tried out the BSDs and settled on OpenBSD. Its
emphasis on security and correctness appealed to me. What never occured
to me was the meaning of the documentation. It is there - complete - and
it is very good. There is no need to trawl through the internet looking
for answers, it is all there on your box.
 
OpenBSD does documentation properly, in my professional opinion. It's
just not what you may be used to from the Linux world. A certain change
in mentality is required when switching from Linux to OpenBSD. It takes
time to learn to type 'man' rather than going straight to the browser
when you don't know how something works. No joke.
 
For the most part, the user experience of OpenBSD is the same as on other
systems. The differences - to me - are similar in nature to those in the
documentation. It might not work the way you are used to, but it does
work. It just depends on if you need to or want to adapt to the
differences.

Best regards,

John


Gesendet: Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 um 22:41 Uhr
Von: "Charlie Eddy" <[hidden email]>
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: considering a move to OpenBSD
hello misc,OpenBSD[https://3c.gmx.net/mail/client/folder;jsessionid=65A379D72B7A98611E388F1A9FABCCDF-n1.bs06a?folderId=tfol13c1d90600f67315&uc=USER_DEFINED]

I am considering a move to OpenBSD, since I subscribed to this mailing list
some time ago (~few months). I want to take advantage of security.

However, a programmer who I know personally and respect considers OpenBSD
to be old-school, in a negative sense. He recommends Arch Linux as
superior, because more new. Does the difference boil down to one's
definition of free software, and then compliance with that definition?

I have read up on this a lot, and this is a serious question. I have heard
that it is unimportant what *nix you're on after a few years of using one
or the other, in terms of functionality. I am interested in embedded
devices. I think that bends the needle towards Arch, but the security of
OpenBSD is also attractive. What considerations should I take into account?

Regards,
Charlie

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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Consus-2
In reply to this post by Philipp Buehler
On 10:40 Fri 09 Feb, Philipp Buehler wrote:

> Am 09.02.2018 10:27 schrieb Consus:
> > It is possible to list all block devices (with type and size) with one
> > command? You now, like lsblk(8) in Linux.
>
> You're implying..
>
> # lsblk
> bash: lsblk: command not found
>
> And just that is already a reason, I do not like "Linux" very much.

I'm implying this:

# lsblk
NAME            MAJ:MIN RM   SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT
nvme0n1         259:0    0 238.5G  0 disk
├─nvme0n1p1     259:1    0   256M  0 part /boot/efi
├─nvme0n1p2     259:2    0   256M  0 part /boot
└─nvme0n1p3     259:3    0   238G  0 part
  ├─laptop-root 253:0    0    32G  0 lvm  /
  ├─laptop-swap 253:1    0    16G  0 lvm
  └─laptop-home 253:2    0   190G  0 lvm  /home

I also can see RAIDs here (I do not have one on my laptop though). How
do I get something similar on OpenBSD?

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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Kevin Chadwick-4
On Fri, 9 Feb 2018 13:14:05 +0300


> # lsblk
> NAME            MAJ:MIN RM   SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT
> nvme0n1         259:0    0 238.5G  0 disk
> ├─nvme0n1p1     259:1    0   256M  0 part /boot/efi
> ├─nvme0n1p2     259:2    0   256M  0 part /boot
> └─nvme0n1p3     259:3    0   238G  0 part
>   ├─laptop-root 253:0    0    32G  0 lvm  /
>   ├─laptop-swap 253:1    0    16G  0 lvm
>   └─laptop-home 253:2    0   190G  0 lvm  /home
>
> I also can see RAIDs here (I do not have one on my laptop though). How
> do I get something similar on OpenBSD?

I forgot that mount and dmesg are useless on Linux these days, so
annoying!

Why are system temperatures and such, a pain to get on Linux too?

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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Otto Moerbeek
In reply to this post by Consus-2
On Fri, Feb 09, 2018 at 12:27:47PM +0300, Consus wrote:

> On 23:12 Thu 08 Feb, Jeroen wrote:
> > I can talk hours and hours why OpenBSD is superior to Linux
>
> It is possible to list all block devices (with type and size) with one
> command? You now, like lsblk(8) in Linux.

I don't think there's a single command that covers that. By
look at sysctl hw.disknames and disklabel.

But some points I'd like to make

- Only you can decide if OpenBSD fits you and if you like the way
things work.

- You have to expect some/a lot of things to be different compared to
Linux. While both systems implement Posix, the general approach
differs a lot. Some things differ for a reason, historical or not.

- You shouldn't assume we know Linux. So refering to a Linux specific
command often does not help a lot. Try to explain what you want to achieve.

- Use the man pages and FAQ. We've put quite some effort into them.

        -Otto



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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Consus-2
On 13:02 Fri 09 Feb, Otto Moerbeek wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 09, 2018 at 12:27:47PM +0300, Consus wrote:
>
> > On 23:12 Thu 08 Feb, Jeroen wrote:
> > > I can talk hours and hours why OpenBSD is superior to Linux
> >
> > It is possible to list all block devices (with type and size) with one
> > command? You now, like lsblk(8) in Linux.
>
> I don't think there's a single command that covers that. By
> look at sysctl hw.disknames and disklabel.
>
> But some points I'd like to make
>
> - Only you can decide if OpenBSD fits you and if you like the way
>   things work.

Of course. I quite like it on my router. It works marvelous.
 
> - You have to expect some/a lot of things to be different compared to
>   Linux. While both systems implement Posix, the general approach
>   differs a lot. Some things differ for a reason, historical or not.

I know.

> - You shouldn't assume we know Linux. So refering to a Linux specific
>   command often does not help a lot. Try to explain what you want to
>   achieve.

I was just making a point. OpenBSD has a lot of downsides in some areas
so blindly calling it 'superior to Linux' without knowing the actual use
cases is kinda naive.

> - Use the man pages and FAQ. We've put quite some effort into them.

Keep up the good work.

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Re: considering a move to OpenBSD

Kevin Chadwick-4
On Fri, 9 Feb 2018 15:09:25 +0300


> > - You shouldn't assume we know Linux. So refering to a Linux
> > specific command often does not help a lot. Try to explain what you
> > want to achieve.  
>
> I was just making a point. OpenBSD has a lot of downsides in some
> areas so blindly calling it 'superior to Linux' without knowing the
> actual use cases is kinda naive.

That is taking what he said out of context. He said he could talk for
hours why and not that OpenBSD is superior for *every* use case. The OP
did focus on security which OpenBSD clearly wins hands down as that is
a primary goal.

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