bsd cloud

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bsd cloud

Friedrich Locke
Hi folks,

i have seen, some minutes ago, a message about cloud with BSD!
I have seen announcements on cloud computing every where. What is the
difference between a BSD cloud and a linux cloud ? A windows cloud and a
linux cloud ?
Isn't all that the new buzz word  in the market ?

So what would a BSD cloud be different in the context of cloud (not openbsd
features) ?

So in essence what is it really cloud we have not doing since networks have
been in the game ?
Don't take this as an offense, i just cannot understand all this frenesy
about clouds ...


thanks in advance.

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Re: bsd cloud

William Ahern-2
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 04:13:47PM -0200, Friedrich Locke wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> i have seen, some minutes ago, a message about cloud with BSD!
> I have seen announcements on cloud computing every where. What is the
> difference between a BSD cloud and a linux cloud ? A windows cloud and a
> linux cloud ?
> Isn't all that the new buzz word  in the market ?
>
> So what would a BSD cloud be different in the context of cloud (not openbsd
> features) ?

The "cloud computing" of Amazon EC2, Rackspace, GoGrid, etc merely describes
a VPS farm where images can be installed, managed, and migrated from a web
service the vendor provides. Fundamentally, nothing exotic of the OS is
required beyond the typical Xen/VMWare/KVM support and related disk and
network drivers. Also, the vendors may install packages which communicate
with their "cloud" controller, and in those cases it's rare that non-Linux
systems will be supported. It really depends on the services provided by the
vendor's web application, and the storage infrastructure (i.e. the possibly
specialized disk drivers).

> So in essence what is it really cloud we have not doing since networks
> have been in the game ? Don't take this as an offense, i just cannot
> understand all this frenesy about clouds ...

It's just a marketing term. Also, cloud vendors very intentionally hide the
ball from people. Why? "Cloud compute time" is typically measued in hours
that your VM is provisioned in the farm--i.e. the image running inside a VM
instance, whether or not your image is halted. If you price out one month of
"cloud compute time" (i.e. 24 hours * 30 days) and factor in your bandwidth
usage, for moderate and heavy utilization a co-located or leased server will
be cheaper, often times significantly. For low-end usage a dedicated VPS
instance will be comparable or cheaper. Vendors don't want people comparing
prices between "cloud computing" and regular leasing or VPS hosting.

"Cloud computing" really only makes sense

1) for very low utilization;

2) for very high utilization, where you need to provision many images
dynamically throughout the day, week, or month;

3) when you value the redundancy and failsafe provided by being able to
snapshot and migrate instances in "the cloud"--i.e. across the vendor's VPS
farm.

I co-locate my own servers, and maintain some cloud images on Rackspace as a
failsafe. I'm only charged a nominal fee for storage of the images, until I
provision a server instance from one of the backup images, which ideally
should happen rarely, and only for short periods of time.

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Re: bsd cloud

Jiri B-2
In reply to this post by Friedrich Locke
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 04:13:47PM -0200, Friedrich Locke wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> i have seen, some minutes ago, a message about cloud with BSD!
> I have seen announcements on cloud computing every where. What is the
> difference between a BSD cloud and a linux cloud ? A windows cloud and a
> linux cloud ?
> Isn't all that the new buzz word  in the market ?
>
> So what would a BSD cloud be different in the context of cloud (not openbsd
> features) ?
>
> So in essence what is it really cloud we have not doing since networks have
> been in the game ?
> Don't take this as an offense, i just cannot understand all this frenesy
> about clouds ...

As now qemu has direct support for glusterfs (a distributed
filesystem) and glusterfs daemon[1] should run on any Unix-like OS
you can have OpenBSD-based cloud too :D For glusterfs is that you
won't be able to mount it on OpenBSD as other posix filesystem
as there's neither support nor FUSE-like workaround.

You can of course try to "port" KVM to OpenBSD, hehe.

jirib

[1] http://community.gluster.org/q/does-glusterfs-support-freebsd/

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Re: bsd cloud

Bentley, Dain
In reply to this post by Friedrich Locke
That would be great! KVM on openbsd. The joyent folks did it with
illumos/opensolaris based smartos. I would think a port to OpenBSD would be
possible.

Sent from my Android phone using TouchDown (www.nitrodesk.com)

-----Original Message-----
From: Jiri B [[hidden email]]
Received: Tuesday, 27 Nov 2012, 2:20pm
To: Friedrich Locke [[hidden email]]
CC: openbsd-misc [[hidden email]]
Subject: Re: bsd cloud

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 04:13:47PM -0200, Friedrich Locke wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> i have seen, some minutes ago, a message about cloud with BSD!
> I have seen announcements on cloud computing every where. What is the
> difference between a BSD cloud and a linux cloud ? A windows cloud and a
> linux cloud ?
> Isn't all that the new buzz word  in the market ?
>
> So what would a BSD cloud be different in the context of cloud (not openbsd
> features) ?
>
> So in essence what is it really cloud we have not doing since networks have
> been in the game ?
> Don't take this as an offense, i just cannot understand all this frenesy
> about clouds ...

As now qemu has direct support for glusterfs (a distributed
filesystem) and glusterfs daemon[1] should run on any Unix-like OS
you can have OpenBSD-based cloud too :D For glusterfs is that you
won't be able to mount it on OpenBSD as other posix filesystem
as there's neither support nor FUSE-like workaround.

You can of course try to "port" KVM to OpenBSD, hehe.

jirib

[1] http://community.gluster.org/q/does-glusterfs-support-freebsd/

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Re: bsd cloud

Russell Garrison
In reply to this post by Jiri B-2
>> i have seen, some minutes ago, a message about cloud with BSD!
>> I have seen announcements on cloud computing every where. What is the
>> difference between a BSD cloud and a linux cloud ? A windows cloud and a
>> linux cloud ?
>> Isn't all that the new buzz word  in the market ?
>>
>> So what would a BSD cloud be different in the context of cloud (not openbsd
>> features) ?
>>
>> So in essence what is it really cloud we have not doing since networks have
>> been in the game ?
>> Don't take this as an offense, i just cannot understand all this frenesy
>> about clouds ...

I think the OP was curious about where they could find a cloud service
provider offering instances running OpenBSD 5.2, not whether the
underlying environment providing the services is OpenBSD.

A difference that would provide really comes down to what environment
you would like for your use/application. Some applications are not
ported for a variety of reasons, so having a choice of operating
system that matches the requirements is helpful. It can also come down
to what someone would like/care to use over other alternatives.

The cloud has advantages and disadvantages, but it is really making
waves in the industry. There is a ton of hype, but past that are some
real facts. One that I like is that: "Every day Amazon Web Services
adds enough new capacity to support all of Amazon.com’s global
infrastructure through the company’s first 5 years, when it was a
$2.76 billion annual revenue enterprise." Amazon uses that ability to
scale to provide a service to both large and small companies. The
customers get to focus on their business and products, while another
party takes care of the facilities execution on a scale that few else
can manage.

It still takes some analysis on the economics of that approach for
your business, but it can work to provide "elastic" capacity that
better matches your demand than a traditional approach. So I would say
it is the raw scale that is available now and the fact that someone
like Amazon can turn around and provide that to literally millions of
customers. A company can experience tremendous growth (or reduction)
in a short period of time while relying on a cloud service provider to
provide them with the scale they need.

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Re: bsd cloud

Moritz Grimm-2
In reply to this post by Friedrich Locke
> i have seen, some minutes ago, a message about cloud with BSD!
> I have seen announcements on cloud computing every where. What is the
> difference between a BSD cloud and a linux cloud ? A windows cloud and a
> linux cloud ?
> Isn't all that the new buzz word  in the market ?

It's bullshit marketing blah-blah if the "cloud" cannot be automated,
i.e. it must be possible to provision new RAM and CPU resources with an
API. In fact, it's all about APIs ... the OS defines the APIs available
to access those RAM and CPU resources (most significant difference would
be Windows vs Unix).

It's all about abstraction of the infrastructure, and automation. As a
user, I don't care if my API calls manage virtual machines or force an
intern to timely do everything manually on bare metal for me, using
jolts of electricity. That's also what makes it potentially interesting
-- just not from a security point of view.

In case of virtualization, the guest OS (possibly OpenBSD) can never be
any more secure than the host OS (usually Linux), and the whole setup is
more risky overall due to added complexity and additional attack vectors.

On the plus side, the things one can build with an infrastructure that
can be 100% automated are quite cool, at the very least in terms of
auto-repair (covering most types of failures) and the hyped auto-scaling.

> So what would a BSD cloud be different in the context of cloud (not openbsd
> features) ?

Different long- and short-term maintenance, I would say (in my
experience with OpenBSD, better + cheaper than Linux). And, with OpenBSD
as the guest, I would also expect significant benefit wrt security: due
to its nature in general, and lack of unnecessary complexity in
particular. From a dogmatic point of view, however, OpenBSD "in the
cloud" is not desired (due to the security issues wrt virtualization).

IOW, I'd also be very much interested in a proper compute cloud offering
OpenBSD instances, ideally with an EC2-compatible API ... it would be an
improvement.

> So in essence what is it really cloud we have not doing since networks have
> been in the game ?
> Don't take this as an offense, i just cannot understand all this frenesy
> about clouds ...

Automation. 42. Many people seem to mix up cloud computing with plain
virtual servers, grid computing, clustering, whatever ... but those are
just possible components, and what it boils down to is abstraction and
automation -- at least from an engineering point of view.


Moritz

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Re: bsd cloud

Chris Cappuccio
In reply to this post by Jiri B-2
Jiri B [[hidden email]] wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 04:13:47PM -0200, Friedrich Locke wrote:
> >
> > So what would a BSD cloud be different in the context of cloud (not openbsd
> > features) ?
>
> You can of course try to "port" KVM to OpenBSD, hehe.

OpenBSD supports Sun's LDom hypervisor hardware out-of-the-box. Even the host mode is now fully or almost fully supported, so OpenBSD can be used as a host and a guest. It is still under active development in -current. Nobody else aside from Solaris comes with a complete, easy to use, out of the box implementation.

Sparc64 with LDom is a very interesting choice if running on i386/amd64 is not a requirement.

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Re: bsd cloud

Jay Patel-7
In reply to this post by Friedrich Locke
You can also look into this
http://bsdmag.org/magazine/1812-what-s-new-in-pc-bsd-9-1

Topic :Setting up Your OwnCloud Instance via the Warden™

you can use same method for setting up OwnCloud in OpenBSD..

Warm Regards,
Jay.