Why Sendmail?

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Why Sendmail?

Conrad Winchester
First of all hi! My name is Conrad and I am new to the world of OpenBSD, but
not unix in general.

I have just done my first install of a server using OpenBSD and am extremely
impressed.

I do have one question though and I apologize if people always ask this: At
the end of the install I asked whether I want to run sshd and ntpd by
default - very nice BUT why am I not given the option to turn off Sendmail
at this point? I NEVER use sendmail and for an OS that prides itself on
being as minimal as possible I would have thought giving you the option to
not run sendmail would also be there right from the start.

Comments please

Conrad Winchester

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Re: Why Sendmail?

Martin Schröder
Search the archives, you troll

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Re: Why Sendmail?

Cristiano Deana
In reply to this post by Conrad Winchester
2006/11/23, Conrad Winchester <[hidden email]>:

> I do have one question though and I apologize if people always ask this: At
> the end of the install I asked whether I want to run sshd and ntpd by
> default - very nice BUT why am I not given the option to turn off Sendmail
> at this point? I NEVER use sendmail and for an OS that prides itself on
> being as minimal as possible I would have thought giving you the option to
> not run sendmail would also be there right from the start.

Any system needs a MTA running, at least to manage email from
nightly/weekly/monthly check.
So, default MUST be "mta running" (you can choose to stop it).

Why sendmail? Why not?

p.s.
i usually use another MTA

--
Cris, member of G.U.F.I
Italian FreeBSD User Group
http://www.gufi.org/

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Re: Why Sendmail?

Paul de Weerd
In reply to this post by Conrad Winchester
On Thu, Nov 23, 2006 at 01:32:29PM +0000, Conrad Winchester wrote:
| First of all hi! My name is Conrad and I am new to the world of OpenBSD,
but
| not unix in general.
|
| I have just done my first install of a server using OpenBSD and am
extremely
| impressed.
|
| I do have one question though and I apologize if people always ask this: At
| the end of the install I asked whether I want to run sshd and ntpd by
| default - very nice BUT why am I not given the option to turn off Sendmail
| at this point? I NEVER use sendmail and for an OS that prides itself on
| being as minimal as possible I would have thought giving you the option to
| not run sendmail would also be there right from the start.

You do use sendmail (or at least an MTA). Let your system run for a
day and check your mail. You'll notice daily scripts sending you nice
informative stuff about your system. These can not be sent without a
running MTA.

Also note that the default sendmail has been configured to only accept
e-mail from localhost (it listens on 127.0.0.1:25 by default).

If you prefer any other MTA, install that from packages and use it,
but you'll break your system by disabling all MTA functionality.

Cheers,

Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd

--
>++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<+++++++.>+++[<------>-]<.>+++[<+
+++++++++++>-]<.>++[<------------>-]<+.--------------.[-]
                 http://www.weirdnet.nl/

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]

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Re: Why Sendmail?

Antoine Jacoutot
In reply to this post by Conrad Winchester
Selon Conrad Winchester <[hidden email]>:
> at this point? I NEVER use sendmail and for an OS that prides itself on
> being as minimal as possible I would have thought giving you the option to

Where is it stated that OpenBSD prides itself on "being as minimal as possible"?

--
Antoine

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Re: Why Sendmail?

Josh Grosse
In reply to this post by Conrad Winchester
On Thu, Nov 23, 2006 at 01:32:29PM +0000, Conrad Winchester wrote:

> ...why am I not given the option to turn off Sendmail
> at this point? I NEVER use sendmail...

See afterboot(8) for a description of the sendmail configuration.

See daily(8) for a discussion of system maintenance logs which are mailed
to root.

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Re: Why Sendmail?

Gregory Edigarov-2
In reply to this post by Conrad Winchester
I think it is because of cron jobs, that use to send mails to root .
 
Conrad Winchester wrote:
> I do have one question though and I apologize if people always ask this: At
> the end of the install I asked whether I want to run sshd and ntpd by
> default - very nice BUT why am I not given the option to turn off Sendmail
> at this point? I NEVER use sendmail and for an OS that prides itself on
> being as minimal as possible I would have thought giving you the option to
> not run sendmail would also be there right from the start.

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Re: Why Sendmail?

Will Maier
In reply to this post by Conrad Winchester
On Thu, Nov 23, 2006 at 01:32:29PM +0000, Conrad Winchester wrote:
> I do have one question though and I apologize if people always ask
> this: At the end of the install I asked whether I want to run sshd
> and ntpd by default - very nice BUT why am I not given the option
> to turn off Sendmail at this point?

So that mail delivery works? OpenBSD has a number of useful
automated reports enabled by default which provide you with
important information, among other reasons.

> I NEVER use sendmail

Do you use a different MTA? That's fine -- sendmail is the default
MTA, but you can easily install others (eg Postfix) using
precompiled packages. In most cases, you simply run
'<newMTA>-enable' and clean up a few loose ends. See the
installation message for your MTA of choice for more information.

> and for an OS that prides itself on being as minimal as possible I
> would have thought giving you the option to not run sendmail would
> also be there right from the start.

IANAD, but...the goals[0] of the OpenBSD project are pretty clear,
and minimalism isn't explicitly one of them. Providing an audited
and specific featureset in the base distribution makes the task of
securing the whole system easier, but 'shipping the least stuff'
isn't in itself a goal (AFAICT).

Sendmail is there as a convenience, as is a heavily modified Apache.
If you don't need them, or want different MTAs or web servers, the
package system gives you plenty of easy options.

As you're new, I'll also plug the FAQ:

http://www.openbsd.org/faq/

In fact, this _very question_ is answered in the FAQ[1]. It helps to
check the FAQ and the mailing list archives first if you have a
question. You'll also find the man pages handy.

[0] http://www.openbsd.org/goals.html
[1] http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq1.html#HowAbout

--

o--------------------------{ Will Maier }--------------------------o
| web:.......http://www.lfod.us/ | [hidden email] |
*------------------[ BSD Unix: Live Free or Die ]------------------*

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Re: Why Sendmail?

z0mbix
In reply to this post by Conrad Winchester
On 23/11/06, Conrad Winchester <[hidden email]> wrote:

> First of all hi! My name is Conrad and I am new to the world of OpenBSD, but
> not unix in general.
>
> I have just done my first install of a server using OpenBSD and am extremely
> impressed.
>
> I do have one question though and I apologize if people always ask this: At
> the end of the install I asked whether I want to run sshd and ntpd by
> default - very nice BUT why am I not given the option to turn off Sendmail
> at this point? I NEVER use sendmail and for an OS that prides itself on
> being as minimal as possible I would have thought giving you the option to
> not run sendmail would also be there right from the start.
>
> Comments please
>
> Conrad Winchester
>
>

Not sure why you are not given the option to disable it on install,
but you turn it off by simply setting "sendmail_flags=NO" in
/etc/rc.conf.local. Also the afterboot manpage is very useful for new
installs. Specifically the section on sendmail:

Sendmail
     OpenBSD ships with a default /etc/mail/localhost.cf file that will work
     for simple installations; it was generated from openbsd-localhost.mc in
     /usr/share/sendmail/cf.  Please see /usr/share/sendmail/README and
     /usr/share/doc/smm/08.sendmailop/op.me for information on generating your
     own sendmail configuration files.  For the default installation, sendmail
     is configured to only accept connections from the local host and to not
     accept connections on any external interfaces.  This makes it possible to
     send mail locally, but not receive mail from remote servers, which is
     ideal if you have one central incoming mail machine and several clients.
     To cause sendmail to accept external network connections, modify the
     sendmail_flags variable in /etc/rc.conf.local to use the
     /etc/mail/sendmail.cf file in accordance with the comments therein.  This
     file was generated from openbsd-proto.mc.

     Note that sendmail now also listens on port 587 by default.  This is to
     implement the RFC 2476 message submission protocol.  You may disable this
     via the no_default_msa option in your sendmail .mc file.  See
     /usr/share/sendmail/README for more information.  The
     /etc/mail/localhost.cf file already has this disabled.

Cheers z0mbix

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Re: Why Sendmail?

Conrad Winchester
In reply to this post by Cristiano Deana
Thanks, I get it now.

Have installed my favourite MTA (it was so much easier on openBSD  
than other systems I have tried (gentoo/redhat/netBSD) which is  
nice). I will set up all important root/postmaster mail accounts etc  
to make sure I get the system emails (they are a bonus too).

BTW the openBSD docs are brilliant.

Conrad


On 23 Nov 2006, at 13:45, Cristiano Deana wrote:

> 2006/11/23, Conrad Winchester <[hidden email]>:
>
>> I do have one question though and I apologize if people always ask  
>> this: At
>> the end of the install I asked whether I want to run sshd and ntpd by
>> default - very nice BUT why am I not given the option to turn off  
>> Sendmail
>> at this point? I NEVER use sendmail and for an OS that prides  
>> itself on
>> being as minimal as possible I would have thought giving you the  
>> option to
>> not run sendmail would also be there right from the start.
>
> Any system needs a MTA running, at least to manage email from
> nightly/weekly/monthly check.
> So, default MUST be "mta running" (you can choose to stop it).
>
> Why sendmail? Why not?
>
> p.s.
> i usually use another MTA
>
> --
> Cris, member of G.U.F.I
> Italian FreeBSD User Group
> http://www.gufi.org/

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Re: Why Sendmail?

Paolo Maero
In reply to this post by Martin Schröder
Martin,

Why being so nice?

Fear of widening openbsd customer base?

/Paolo


On Nov 23, 2006, at 2:44 PM, Martin Schrvder wrote:

> Search the archives, you troll