Which BLOB did OpenBSD object to in the Raspberry Pi?

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Which BLOB did OpenBSD object to in the Raspberry Pi?

alan01346
I thought it was the bootloader, but I see there's u-boot (and QEMU)
for the Pi now.
http://elinux.org/RPi_U-Boot

I don't know, I just wish everybody could get along. I've had a Pi
model B for 3 years, I've got a new Pi 3B on its way.  64-bit and quad
core for $35?  Even if I have to live with Linux.  Yes, I know there's
FreeBSD and NetBSD for it.
--
Credit is the root of all evil.  - AB1JX

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Re: Which BLOB did OpenBSD object to in the Raspberry Pi?

Barbier, Jason
As I recall it was mostly the closed nature of the processor itself. It
requires an NDA from Broadcom or to reverse engineer it. Sonpretty much
when device makers get out of this neanderthal mindset ofcwe cant share
our hardware reference docs everyone will get along better.

--
Jason Barbier | E: [hidden email]
GPG Key-ID: B5F75B47(http://kusuriya.devio.us/pubkey.asc)

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016, at 05:04 AM, Alan Corey wrote:

> I thought it was the bootloader, but I see there's u-boot (and QEMU)
> for the Pi now.
> http://elinux.org/RPi_U-Boot
>
> I don't know, I just wish everybody could get along. I've had a Pi
> model B for 3 years, I've got a new Pi 3B on its way.  64-bit and quad
> core for $35?  Even if I have to live with Linux.  Yes, I know there's
> FreeBSD and NetBSD for it.
> --
> Credit is the root of all evil.  - AB1JX
>

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Re: Which BLOB did OpenBSD object to in the Raspberry Pi?

Michael Motyka
In reply to this post by alan01346

> On Apr 29, 2016, at 05:04, Alan Corey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I thought it was the bootloader,

GPU boot blob apparently. It's ass backwards to boot via the GPU instead of core0. Maybe they were trying to hide their DDR init code or didn't have a habitable block of SRAM for the v8. http://illwillpress.com/DISLIKET.html

> but I see there's u-boot (and QEMU)
> for the Pi now.
> http://elinux.org/RPi_U-Boot
>
> I don't know, I just wish everybody could get along. I've had a Pi
> model B for 3 years, I've got a new Pi 3B on its way.  64-bit and quad
> core for $35?  Even if I have to live with Linux.  Yes, I know there's
> FreeBSD and NetBSD for it.

From what I've read it gets to user code in EL3 so if you can clock and power gate the GPU you own the machine and can run whatever you want

> --
> Credit is the root of all evil.  - AB1JX
>

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Re: Which BLOB did OpenBSD object to in the Raspberry Pi?

alan01346
In reply to this post by alan01346
Hmm, you mean documentation from ARM or from Broadcom?  There seems to
be a ton of stuff at http://infocenter.arm.com but the URL's funky or
blocked by my ISP.  I can go there in Lynx from my devio.us account
but I'm a little out of practice with Lynx.  I was seeing tables of
contents in documents, but I wanted a PDF or ten.  Try
http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.set.cortexa/index.html
as an example.

The Cortex family of processors made Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cortex-A who says the amount of
documentation is daunting.

The Pi's probably unique in being manufactured by essentially a
non-profit organization. https://www.raspberrypi.org/about/  The
forums at https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/ seem pretty good.  I
don't know if they have any non-disclosure agreements with Broadcom or
not.  The foundation seems mostly academically oriented, I would think
they'd cooperate with any open source organization.

--
Credit is the root of all evil.  - AB1JX

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Re: Which BLOB did OpenBSD object to in the Raspberry Pi?

Barbier, Jason
From broadcom. Other arms are fine usually.

--
Jason Barbier | E: [hidden email]
GPG Key-ID: B5F75B47(http://kusuriya.devio.us/pubkey.asc)

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016, at 07:10 AM, Alan Corey wrote:

> Hmm, you mean documentation from ARM or from Broadcom?  There seems to
> be a ton of stuff at http://infocenter.arm.com but the URL's funky or
> blocked by my ISP.  I can go there in Lynx from my devio.us account
> but I'm a little out of practice with Lynx.  I was seeing tables of
> contents in documents, but I wanted a PDF or ten.  Try
> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.set.cortexa/index.html
> as an example.
>
> The Cortex family of processors made Wikipedia:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cortex-A who says the amount of
> documentation is daunting.
>
> The Pi's probably unique in being manufactured by essentially a
> non-profit organization. https://www.raspberrypi.org/about/  The
> forums at https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/ seem pretty good.  I
> don't know if they have any non-disclosure agreements with Broadcom or
> not.  The foundation seems mostly academically oriented, I would think
> they'd cooperate with any open source organization.
>
> --
> Credit is the root of all evil.  - AB1JX
>

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Re: Which BLOB did OpenBSD object to in the Raspberry Pi?

Barbier, Jason
In reply to this post by alan01346
Sent too early doh. But yeah the foundation is under NDA with broadcom,
it actually was a big issue in the free software community along with
the proprietary video. The video has been fixed but not the cpu.

--
Jason Barbier | E: [hidden email]
GPG Key-ID: B5F75B47(http://kusuriya.devio.us/pubkey.asc)

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016, at 07:10 AM, Alan Corey wrote:

> Hmm, you mean documentation from ARM or from Broadcom?  There seems to
> be a ton of stuff at http://infocenter.arm.com but the URL's funky or
> blocked by my ISP.  I can go there in Lynx from my devio.us account
> but I'm a little out of practice with Lynx.  I was seeing tables of
> contents in documents, but I wanted a PDF or ten.  Try
> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.set.cortexa/index.html
> as an example.
>
> The Cortex family of processors made Wikipedia:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cortex-A who says the amount of
> documentation is daunting.
>
> The Pi's probably unique in being manufactured by essentially a
> non-profit organization. https://www.raspberrypi.org/about/  The
> forums at https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/ seem pretty good.  I
> don't know if they have any non-disclosure agreements with Broadcom or
> not.  The foundation seems mostly academically oriented, I would think
> they'd cooperate with any open source organization.
>
> --
> Credit is the root of all evil.  - AB1JX
>

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Re: Which BLOB did OpenBSD object to in the Raspberry Pi?

andrew fabbro
Lots of interesting conversation here on this:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10162101

I confess I don't know all the details but fundamentally, there are limited
arm resources and I suspect OpenBSD doesn't have time for people who want
to play games with their code, given that other boards (e.g., beagle) are
more open.  OpenBSD has limited resources, the arm crew even less, and the
have to spend those hours as wisely as possible.

I think if the RPi was completely open, it would have been supported long
ago.  You can run Free and Net on it, btw.


On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Jason Barbier <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Sent too early doh. But yeah the foundation is under NDA with broadcom,
> it actually was a big issue in the free software community along with
> the proprietary video. The video has been fixed but not the cpu.
>
> --
> Jason Barbier | E: [hidden email]
> GPG Key-ID: B5F75B47(http://kusuriya.devio.us/pubkey.asc)
>
> On Sat, Apr 30, 2016, at 07:10 AM, Alan Corey wrote:
> > Hmm, you mean documentation from ARM or from Broadcom?  There seems to
> > be a ton of stuff at http://infocenter.arm.com but the URL's funky or
> > blocked by my ISP.  I can go there in Lynx from my devio.us account
> > but I'm a little out of practice with Lynx.  I was seeing tables of
> > contents in documents, but I wanted a PDF or ten.  Try
> > http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.set.cortexa/index.html
> > as an example.
> >
> > The Cortex family of processors made Wikipedia:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cortex-A who says the amount of
> > documentation is daunting.
> >
> > The Pi's probably unique in being manufactured by essentially a
> > non-profit organization. https://www.raspberrypi.org/about/  The
> > forums at https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/ seem pretty good.  I
> > don't know if they have any non-disclosure agreements with Broadcom or
> > not.  The foundation seems mostly academically oriented, I would think
> > they'd cooperate with any open source organization.
> >
> > --
> > Credit is the root of all evil.  - AB1JX
> >
>
>


--
andrew fabbro
[hidden email]