What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

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What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Mohamed salah
I wanna put something in discussion, what's your motivational to use
OPENBSD what not other bsd's what not gnu/Linux, if something doesn't work
fine on openbsd and you love this os so much what will do?
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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Raul Miller
I would fix the issue, or use something else to get that done or
abandon that project.

(I am not sure why you would imagine that using OpenBSD implies not
using other operating systems. It's *because* I use other operating
systems that I like using OpenBSD.)

Thanks,

--
Raul

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 10:41 AM Mohamed salah
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I wanna put something in discussion, what's your motivational to use
> OPENBSD what not other bsd's what not gnu/Linux, if something doesn't work
> fine on openbsd and you love this os so much what will do?

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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Christopher Turkel
I use OpenBSD because it can do everything I want it to do and it’s easy to
use.

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019, Raul Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would fix the issue, or use something else to get that done or
> abandon that project.
>
> (I am not sure why you would imagine that using OpenBSD implies not
> using other operating systems. It's *because* I use other operating
> systems that I like using OpenBSD.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Raul
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 10:41 AM Mohamed salah
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I wanna put something in discussion, what's your motivational to use
> > OPENBSD what not other bsd's what not gnu/Linux, if something doesn't
> work
> > fine on openbsd and you love this os so much what will do?
>
>
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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Dave Anderson-4
In reply to this post by Mohamed salah
On Wed, 28 Aug 2019, Mohamed salah wrote:

>I wanna put something in discussion, what's your motivational to use
>OPENBSD what not other bsd's what not gnu/Linux, if something doesn't work
>fine on openbsd and you love this os so much what will do?

The emphasis on security and correctness.

--
Dave Anderson
<[hidden email]>

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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Mike.
In reply to this post by Mohamed salah
On 8/28/2019 10:32 AM, Mohamed salah wrote:
> I wanna put something in discussion, what's your motivational to use
> OPENBSD what not other bsd's what not gnu/Linux, if something doesn't work
> fine on openbsd and you love this os so much what will do?
>

I run a few different OS's here.  The reason I choose OpenBSD for the
tasks I use it for:

It just works.

It doesn't carry a lot of extra baggage.

It just works.

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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Mohamed Fouad
In reply to this post by Mohamed salah
OpenBSD community is formed around the idea of doing things in a simple but
correct manner; the community also rejects all stupid ideas that many
others may accept because it is a bit more convenient. That's a good
community to learn from.

A community that got a good taste for sensible ideas.

On Wed, 28 Aug 2019, 11:42 Mohamed salah <[hidden email] wrote:

> I wanna put something in discussion, what's your motivational to use
> OPENBSD what not other bsd's what not gnu/Linux, if something doesn't work
> fine on openbsd and you love this os so much what will do?
>
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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Andrew Luke Nesbit-2
In reply to this post by Mohamed salah
On 28/08/2019 15:32, Mohamed salah wrote:
> I wanna put something in discussion, what's your motivational to use
> OPENBSD what not other bsd's what not gnu/Linux
Of all the things that naturally pull me towards BSD, I can not think of
anything that OpenBSD does better than the other BSD's.

Conversely OpenBSD is not very good at being a file server.  It's also
not very good at SMP.  These issues have been known for a long time and
it doesn't take much research to find out these facts when evalutation
technologies for specific important use cases.  I understand that the
SMP deficiencies are being worked on.  I don't know about the lack of
file server functionality however.

In other words, I don't know how important it is for the OpenBSD project
that it eventually becomes a top contender when evaluating an OS for a
file server or NAS.

I also use NetBSD.  NetBSD and OpenBSD are both excellent and often I
enjoy using NetBSD more.

I use OpenBSD for many reasons.  Here are a few, and many of them apply
equally well to my use of NetBSD:

-   The /community/ of /any/ software that I have the luxury of choosing
is a critical factor.  It is equally as important as the technology
itself.  OpenBSD's community has been wonderful to work with.  I mostly
interact on the the [hidden email] mailing list and the #OpenBSD IRC
channel on freenode.

-   Its out-of-the box pf firewall.  This has a LOT of community
knowledge, which is a huge advantage.  Not only is this important to
implement 100% correctly, but it's important that you understand all the
relevant lurking unknowns so that you don't have false confidence in a
misconfigured firewall.  This is one area where a large community of
experts is extremely helpful.

-   I would prefer to use a simply configured OS instead of an appliance
like OPNSence or pfSense.  I don't think they add much value.

     However, if I was a network or security engineer in a large
enterprise, I'd probaby be working very differently.  Based on my
experiences working in large corporate enterprises so far, i.e., based
on my observations, I'd probably be using an appliance from Cisco,
Juniper, F5, etc.

     This is not a negative point against choosing OpenBSD.  I've never
been in a position of influence in a large, corporate enterprise's
network division (I'm not a network engineer professionally).

     It's an observation, not something I would /necessarily/ choose.
To be fair, I have seen many amazing things that these expensive devices
from Cisco, Juniper, and F5 can do too.

     On the other hand the libre nature of OpenBSD is one its major
benefits.  If you ever need to audit your security infrastructure then
OpenBSD puts you in a good place right from the beginning.

-   OpenBSD's documentation is excellent.  Documentation is clear and
complete.  Man pages exist and are meaningful.  In fact, I use OpenBSD's
(and other *BSD's) coding standards and documentation style as a model
for my own projects, even they have nothing in particular to do with *BSD.

-   OpenBSD has a concise base system that is understandable, learnable
without too much congitive stress, and (usually) fast to install.

-   As somebody else has mentioned, they use OpenBSD precisely *because*
they also use other operating systems.  It is the same for me.  It is
important to learn how different OS'es do similar functions.  Moreover,
I am starting to learn how to write my software to be more portable.
Portable software is, by its nature, of a higher standard than software
that runs only on GNU/Linux, for example.  I'm still a beginner as far
as this is concerned.  It means expanding beyond *nix too.

     (This blind adherence to "the Unix philosophy" as though its
superiority in OS design is axiomatically true has had a negative effect
on the collective imagination of many people.)

-   OpenBSD runs on architectures other than x86_64 that I am interested
in.  For example, PowerPC-based Apple Macintosh systems and SPARC-based
systems.  This ties in intimimately with my previous point re: support
of architectures.

Andrew
--
OpenPGP key: EB28 0338 28B7 19DA DAB0  B193 D21D 996E 883B E5B9

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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Vivek Vinod
In reply to this post by Mohamed Fouad

I'm going to be hated for this.... But I don't feel like logging into my servers everyday to check if all is well. Some (*BSDs) I've not logged into for years and also forgotten my passwords.

With OpenBSD on public IPs, I'm safe(r) than the GNU/Linux (worst offender) or Windows (2nd worst) or FreeBSD (1 incident in 3 years) counterparts.

Then again, I feel OpenBSD has made me start to question everything... which has led me to better work choices.

Please excuse my brevity - Sent from my mobile



          Original Message  



From: [hidden email]
Sent: 28 August 2019 9:34 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD


OpenBSD community is formed around the idea of doing things in a simple but
correct manner; the community also rejects all stupid ideas that many
others may accept because it is a bit more convenient. That's a good
community to learn from.

A community that got a good taste for sensible ideas.

On Wed, 28 Aug 2019, 11:42 Mohamed salah <[hidden email] wrote:

> I wanna put something in discussion, what's your motivational to use
> OPENBSD what not other bsd's what not gnu/Linux, if something doesn't work
> fine on openbsd and you love this os so much what will do?
>

prx
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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

prx
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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Solene Rapenne
In reply to this post by Mohamed salah
On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 04:32:29PM +0200, Mohamed salah wrote:
> I wanna put something in discussion, what's your motivational to use
> OPENBSD what not other bsd's what not gnu/Linux, if something doesn't work
> fine on openbsd and you love this os so much what will do?

What I really like in the OpenBSD team is the ability to take correct
decisions and not trying to be consumer friendly or following a trend.

I say consumer friendly instead of user friendly, because OpenBSD _is_
user friendly, as far as you do your homeworks and learn how to read the
documentation. The system come with sane defaults and every user can
easily enjoy their own system for their own use.

Consumers don't want to think or make the effort.

Some of the decisions are the following:

Microphone on laptop?
        disabled by default, change requires root

Webcam?
        only for root by default

Disable SMT?
        default setting

Sacrifice startup speed for security (randomization)?
        done

The list could be extended with unmaintained code removal (tmpfs,
bluetooth, linux emulation etc...)

Those choices would be considered bold or even harmful to users on some
others systems I've been slightly involved.

But in the end, they are beneficial for the end user.

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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Pierre Emeriaud
In reply to this post by Mohamed salah
Le mer. 28 août 2019 à 16:38, Mohamed salah
<[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> I wanna put something in discussion, what's your motivational to use
> OPENBSD what not other bsd's what not gnu/Linux, if something doesn't work
> fine on openbsd and you love this os so much what will do?

Almost everything I need is in base. Software (routing daemons, dns
servers, pf), and documentation (man pages, config examples) is here.
I can rely almost exclusively on this to get what I want to do, no
need to google for outdated howtos.

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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Daniel Ouellet
In reply to this post by Mohamed salah
On 8/28/19 10:32 AM, Mohamed salah wrote:
> I wanna put something in discussion, what's your motivational to use
> OPENBSD what not other bsd's what not gnu/Linux, if something doesn't work
> fine on openbsd and you love this os so much what will do?

- Simplicity.
- Clean
- Lean and Slim
- Work as advertise
- Secure

And the most important fact a few decades ago got me turn to OpenBSD
without ever turning back is the man page.

I can't say how many times I wasted trying to figure out how to get shit
working on other Linux flavors and simply give up.

I have to say I am short of time and anything that make me save some it
a plus for me. So when I discover OpenBSD totally by mistake, I never
look back.

My son tells me that some Linux have improved their man page some today,
but some to me mean nothing and I really could case less.

However searching for ever and reading a lots of stuff that you realize
simply doesn't apply drives me nuts.

I am sure the list is difference for everyone, instead of asking just
try it and see for yourself.

No one will know more then you what you are looking for or like.

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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Edgar Pettijohn III-2
In reply to this post by Mohamed salah
It's easy to upgrade. I'm never worried that upgrading will break something. As far as BSD's go it's the easiest to get a desktop going. Since x is in base you just have to do a few pkg_add's. And those packages will be built the way you expect 9 out of 10 times.

Edgar
On Aug 28, 2019 3:37 PM, Daniel Ouellet <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 8/28/19 10:32 AM, Mohamed salah wrote:
> > I wanna put something in discussion, what's your motivational to use
> > OPENBSD what not other bsd's what not gnu/Linux, if something doesn't work
> > fine on openbsd and you love this os so much what will do?
>
> - Simplicity.
> - Clean
> - Lean and Slim
> - Work as advertise
> - Secure
>
> And the most important fact a few decades ago got me turn to OpenBSD
> without ever turning back is the man page.
>
> I can't say how many times I wasted trying to figure out how to get shit
> working on other Linux flavors and simply give up.
>
> I have to say I am short of time and anything that make me save some it
> a plus for me. So when I discover OpenBSD totally by mistake, I never
> look back.
>
> My son tells me that some Linux have improved their man page some today,
> but some to me mean nothing and I really could case less.
>
> However searching for ever and reading a lots of stuff that you realize
> simply doesn't apply drives me nuts.
>
> I am sure the list is difference for everyone, instead of asking just
> try it and see for yourself.
>
> No one will know more then you what you are looking for or like.
>

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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Magnus Wild
In reply to this post by Mohamed salah
On 8/28/19 4:32 PM, Mohamed salah wrote:
> I wanna put something in discussion, what's your motivational to use
> OPENBSD what not other bsd's what not gnu/Linux, if something doesn't work
> fine on openbsd and you love this os so much what will do?
>

I enjoy using it because of it's clean design. It's a fairly simple
system, with sane default configuration and it "just works" on most
laptops that I've used it on.

I use a lot of Linux at work and in other environments as well, and the
application support is naturally better. But the things I really care
about works on OpenBSD, and as such, I tend to come back to it when
using computers in my free time.

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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Chris Bennett-4
In reply to this post by Mohamed salah
I decided to move away from Windows and I needed to setup a web and
email server. Trying many different versions of Linux left me
unsatisfied. Then I accidentally ran into OpenBSD website.
That was exactly what I wanted.
As a totally inexperienced guy, I found a server company that could
pre-install it. I never looked backed and learned almost everything
remotely. I dual booted at home for a while and I use OpenBSD only for
a long time now.

I have found two intersting things about the mailing lists.
1. Here is what you need to know, how else can I help.
2. RTFM and read the source code yourself.

I found read the source code a little frustrating at first.
But I have realized that the OpenBSD community is NOT about holding your
hand. There is an expectation that you need to put out the effort
necessary to at least try to figure it out yourself. If that means
learning some C or Perl or other languages, then you will have to do
that.
I now heartily agree with this. Why should a developer waste time when
there are truly more important things that constantly change as the
world moves forward. I have never been concerned about missing a few
months without checking up on a server. Problems are very very rare!
And fixed really really fast!

Thanks for giving me a fantastic system and the chance to laugh at the
other OS's that think security and bug fixing is an optional concern!

Chris Bennett


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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Tyler
In reply to this post by Mohamed salah
I first started using it around version 4.3. I was trying BSD's after
using Linux for a bit, and tried FreeBSD first.

But OpenBSD was the only one that supported my laptop's WiFi card. And
getting everything running was much less of a hassle.

It's the best BSD for getting a fine workstation up quickly.

My Thinkpad T60 running OpenBSD got me through college just fine.

It's the first operating system that I was able to do lots of cool
sysadmin stuff because of how simple it is.

And also the first operating system I found that was easier to find
answers in the manual, and not through Google.

Also the OS that inspired me to learn C programming.

OpenBSD is the best BSD, and getting better every release.

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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Strahil Nikolov
I'm a "linux guy" who wants a little bit more security...
I'm still learning openBSD, but I like the project's idea to build software with security in mind.Also, PF seems pretty good and I'm willing to learn it and if possible to deploy a CARP-ed cluster.

Sadly, I am still hesitant to try the gui... yet, there are a lot of stuff this BSD can be used for - from a firewall/router to a full blown Laptop distro.

And Of course, I love the documentation.

Best Regards,
Strahil Nikolov




>I first started using it around version 4.3. I was trying BSD's after
>using Linux for a bit, and tried FreeBSD first.
>
>But OpenBSD was the only one that supported my laptop's WiFi card. And
>getting everything running was much less of a hassle.
>
>It's the best BSD for getting a fine workstation up quickly.
>
>My Thinkpad T60 running OpenBSD got me through college just fine.
>
>It's the first operating system that I was able to do lots of cool
>sysadmin stuff because of how simple it is.
>
>And also the first operating system I found that was easier to find
>answers in the manual, and not through Google.
>
>Also the OS that inspired me to learn C programming.
>
>OpenBSD is the best BSD, and getting better every release.

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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Luke Call
For what it may be worth, I found xfce very usable and clean, even for someone used to Windows 7 (my wife and some others required very little or no help, as far as the GUI goes anyway).  More recently, I took the time to learn about tmux and fvwm and to customize their configs to my tastes, which I haven't regretted (and I now prefer since they are part of base).
--
Luke Call
Things I want to say to many (a lightly-loading site):
http://lukecall.net  (updated 2019-08-27)


On 09-01 12:18, Strahil Nikolov wrote:

> I'm a "linux guy" who wants a little bit more security...
> I'm still learning openBSD, but I like the project's idea to build software with security in mind.Also, PF seems pretty good and I'm willing to learn it and if possible to deploy a CARP-ed cluster.
>
> Sadly, I am still hesitant to try the gui... yet, there are a lot of stuff this BSD can be used for - from a firewall/router to a full blown Laptop distro.
>
> And Of course, I love the documentation.
>
> Best Regards,
> Strahil Nikolov
>
>
>
>
> >I first started using it around version 4.3. I was trying BSD's after
> >using Linux for a bit, and tried FreeBSD first.
> >
> >But OpenBSD was the only one that supported my laptop's WiFi card. And
> >getting everything running was much less of a hassle.
> >
> >It's the best BSD for getting a fine workstation up quickly.
> >
> >My Thinkpad T60 running OpenBSD got me through college just fine.
> >
> >It's the first operating system that I was able to do lots of cool
> >sysadmin stuff because of how simple it is.
> >
> >And also the first operating system I found that was easier to find
> >answers in the manual, and not through Google.
> >
> >Also the OS that inspired me to learn C programming.
> >
> >OpenBSD is the best BSD, and getting better every release.
>

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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

andrew fabbro
In reply to this post by Mohamed salah
On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 7:45 AM Mohamed salah <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I wanna put something in discussion, what's your motivational to use
> OPENBSD


The vastly superior mascot and soundtrack.

--
andrew fabbro
[hidden email]
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Re: What is you motivational to use OpenBSD

Zeb Packard
Stallman's moral arguments are compelling. Theo's moral arguments are
impeccable.

There is more Unix tradition in OpenBSD than there is in any modern Posix
compliant system, where most projects change their interface needlessly,
OpenBSD is a classic where much documentation is in effect timeless. This
is a product of stability being a moral stance which endeavours to create a
substrate for morally oriented code.

The objective of bug free code is nearly unheard of in the industry and in
fact where it is paid lip-service it is not sufficiently served.

The objective and means of obtaining security is among the most accurate,
most logical, and least impulsive strategies in the industry.

Stability, fitness for service and security combine to form a practical
morality in applied software engineering that I find compelling.

On Sun, Sep 1, 2019 at 5:44 PM andrew fabbro <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 7:45 AM Mohamed salah <[hidden email]
> >
> wrote:
>
> > I wanna put something in discussion, what's your motivational to use
> > OPENBSD
>
>
> The vastly superior mascot and soundtrack.
>
> --
> andrew fabbro
> [hidden email]
>
12