Vera -> DejaVu fonts?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
5 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Vera -> DejaVu fonts?

Christian Weisgerber
Should we import the DejaVu fonts as default TrueType fonts for
xenocara, i.e., as replacement for the Vera fonts?

The DejaVu fonts are an extension of Bitstream Vera and are under
the same license.  The DejaVu fonts cover a greater range of
characters.  This helps a lot with Firefox for scientific texts,
IPA, and Greek.  Our embryonic port of Chromium profits even more,
(e.g., Cyrillic works) since Chromium seems less apt at cobbling
together glyphs from different (non-TrueType?) fonts.

Are there any downsides to importing DejaVu?

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Vera -> DejaVu fonts?

Adam Thompson
In article <hgjc9a$563$[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
says...

>
> Should we import the DejaVu fonts as default TrueType fonts for
> xenocara, i.e., as replacement for the Vera fonts?
>
> The DejaVu fonts are an extension of Bitstream Vera and are under
> the same license.  The DejaVu fonts cover a greater range of
> characters.  This helps a lot with Firefox for scientific texts,
> IPA, and Greek.  Our embryonic port of Chromium profits even more,
> (e.g., Cyrillic works) since Chromium seems less apt at cobbling
> together glyphs from different (non-TrueType?) fonts.
>
> Are there any downsides to importing DejaVu?

Since:
a) the DejaVu fonts are essentially a superset of the Vera fonts,

b) the DejaVu license is essentially a superset of the Vera license
while not imposing any NEW licensing restrictions that might go against
the grain of the BSD license philosophy

c) the DejaVu fonts are intended specifically to be used instead of the
Vera fonts: quoting from the main page:
   "Its purpose is to provide a wider range of characters while
    maintaining the original look and feel through the process of
    collaborative development (see authors), under a Free license."

Then I would imagine that technical reasons would be the next item to
examine.  

I've used the DejaVu font sets as my default fonts under Windows, MacOS,
Solaris, various Linux and various BSD just so I could keep a consistent
stylistic theme across the various systems I own, and I started doing
that at least three years ago  (possibly more... I was using the Vera
fonts first, not sure when I switched) and I've never had any of the
DejaVu fonts crash a TTF renderer yet.

I get reasonably decent results regardless of which renderer I use:
Windows GDI, Mac OS X (any of them - who knows which!), Xft, FT1, FT2,
with and without GASP support, bytecode support, and autohinter support.

Then esthetic:

While they aren't perfect, and do not quite have the same quality that
results from significant financial transactions in the cases of
Microsoft and Apple for their respective core fonts, DejaVu comes
surprisingly close and is adequate for almost all professional
typography uses.

And, of course, they derive directly from professionally-done fonts from
B&H in the first place, so it's unlikely that community additions will
significantly degrade the look of the font (the project currently has a
policy of NOT replacing any original characters from Vera).

Also, the DejaVu project seems to be a bit livelier than the Gnome
Fonts' Vera project, not that either one is in any danger of being
abandoned right now.

So I'd say yes, please, especially if you import the entire set, which
includes several more faces than the Vera set now.

-Adam Thompson
 <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Vera -> DejaVu fonts?

Matthieu Herrb
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 08:15:38PM +0000, Christian Weisgerber wrote:

> Should we import the DejaVu fonts as default TrueType fonts for
> xenocara, i.e., as replacement for the Vera fonts?
>
> The DejaVu fonts are an extension of Bitstream Vera and are under
> the same license.  The DejaVu fonts cover a greater range of
> characters.  This helps a lot with Firefox for scientific texts,
> IPA, and Greek.  Our embryonic port of Chromium profits even more,
> (e.g., Cyrillic works) since Chromium seems less apt at cobbling
> together glyphs from different (non-TrueType?) fonts.
>
> Are there any downsides to importing DejaVu?

The only downside I can see is that if we remove vera fonts, some
people will complain that their fonts are broken again, especially if
they had explicitely configured applications to use them.

Applications using generic fontconfig should be fine as fontconfig
chooses DejaVu as 2nd choice just after Vera for most cases.

--
Matthieu Herrb

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Vera -> DejaVu fonts?

Jasper Lievisse Adriaanse-4
On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 08:33:18AM +0100, Matthieu Herrb wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 08:15:38PM +0000, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> > Should we import the DejaVu fonts as default TrueType fonts for
> > xenocara, i.e., as replacement for the Vera fonts?
> >
> > The DejaVu fonts are an extension of Bitstream Vera and are under
> > the same license.  The DejaVu fonts cover a greater range of
> > characters.  This helps a lot with Firefox for scientific texts,
> > IPA, and Greek.  Our embryonic port of Chromium profits even more,
> > (e.g., Cyrillic works) since Chromium seems less apt at cobbling
> > together glyphs from different (non-TrueType?) fonts.
> >
> > Are there any downsides to importing DejaVu?
>
> The only downside I can see is that if we remove vera fonts, some
> people will complain that their fonts are broken again, especially if
> they had explicitely configured applications to use them.
>
> Applications using generic fontconfig should be fine as fontconfig
> chooses DejaVu as 2nd choice just after Vera for most cases.
>
> --
> Matthieu Herrb

I'd be happy to see DejaVu supersede the Vera fonts. (Another port that
will be happy is education/gamgi )

Perhaps we could have both around for a while to give people one release
transition time?

Cheers,
Jasper

--
"Intelligence should guide our actions, but in harmony with the
  texture of the situation at hand"
        -- Francisco Varela

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Vera -> DejaVu fonts?

Owain Ainsworth-2
In reply to this post by Matthieu Herrb
On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 08:33:18AM +0100, Matthieu Herrb wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 08:15:38PM +0000, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> > Should we import the DejaVu fonts as default TrueType fonts for
> > xenocara, i.e., as replacement for the Vera fonts?
> >
> > The DejaVu fonts are an extension of Bitstream Vera and are under
> > the same license.  The DejaVu fonts cover a greater range of
> > characters.  This helps a lot with Firefox for scientific texts,
> > IPA, and Greek.  Our embryonic port of Chromium profits even more,
> > (e.g., Cyrillic works) since Chromium seems less apt at cobbling
> > together glyphs from different (non-TrueType?) fonts.
> >
> > Are there any downsides to importing DejaVu?
>
> The only downside I can see is that if we remove vera fonts, some
> people will complain that their fonts are broken again, especially if
> they had explicitely configured applications to use them.

Like me, probably (bitstream vera sans most places, mono in xterm).

at the same time, i don't object.

-0-
--
Ask your boss to reconsider -- it's so difficult to take "Go to hell"
for an answer.