Two questions.

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Two questions.

voicedw
Dear OpenBSD developers and users!

A voice from deep web welcomes you!

I'm not sure if you are aware but very recently FBI finally brought down
Freedom hosting. It was a person who was hosting millions of websites
for the people, the websites were not ordinary, they were all as illegal
as you can imagine, including such as: drug dealer websites where drug
manufacturers had direct access with their customers, websites which
promotes revolutions and terrorism and – of course websites which share,
promote and accept trading of CP (Child Pornography) and many many other
things which would be impossible to host on surface web. As far as I
know Freedom Hosting used to run OpenBSD only systems, it is unclear
that are they got hacked or not, I personally think that other method
was used to identify location of servers. You can call me as one of the
visitors of such websites and user of most secure OS :)

Recent events in deepweb made me think about the future of our freedom.
I got couple of questions for whom I can't find an answers, see if you
could help if you don't mind.

The first one. We all know that the operating system OpenBSD largely
depends on lead, so what will happen when time will come for Theo? We
all know that so far people do not live thousands of years... I think
that not only me would be interesting to know the future of this great
project in case something happens. Please do not misunderstand me here,
I do not wish anything bad for Theo, I just need to be sure that there
are others who could keep project going.

2nd: how would OpenBSD leaders and developers would react, that OS they
developing is powering most illegal things which you probably can't
dream on? What I'm saying, is it possible that under certain
circumstances OpenBSD people could silently include trojan or any other
related piece of code which could lead of compromise of machines which
are powering deep web ?


Thanks for reading.
Voice

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Re: Two questions.

Scott McEachern-2
Is it just me, or are the trolls around here getting more and more lame.

On 08/09/13 00:00, [hidden email] wrote:
> I got couple of questions for whom I can't find an answers,

You've obviously thought long and very hard.

> I do not wish anything bad for Theo, I just need to be sure that there
> are others who could keep project going.

After running the OpenBSD project for over 20 years, I'm sure Theo never
thought of that.  We all thank you for bringing it to his attention.

> that OS they developing is powering most illegal things which you
> probably can't dream on?

I'm sure OpenBSD devs are ashamed that I use it to power my
kitten-stomping, baby-mulching machines.  I'm also sure the people that
make hammers and knives feel really, really bad too.

> OpenBSD people could silently include trojan

I could win the lotto; gamma rays could destroy the planet; I could get
hit by a bus.  That's why the source and commit logs are *not* available
to the public, and the whole damn thing is proprietary. There is no
possible way anyone could know what the devs are doing.

> Thanks for reading.

No, thank-YOU for pointing out such things for the very first time.


To all that are reading, please let my lame attempt at humour be the
first and only response. :)

--
Scott McEachern

https://www.blackstaff.ca

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Two questions.

Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen
In reply to this post by voicedw
This has been asked and answered numerous times, with generous helpings of
shitheadery that serves to mask any real information offered. Check the archives
for the obvious keywords. There's nothing to add since the last iteration.

- Peter
--
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.

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Re: Two questions.

Nick Holland
In reply to this post by voicedw
On 08/09/2013 12:00 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
...
> The first one. We all know that the operating system OpenBSD largely
> depends on lead, so what will happen when time will come for Theo? We
> all know that so far people do not live thousands of years... I think
> that not only me would be interesting to know the future of this great
> project in case something happens. Please do not misunderstand me here,
> I do not wish anything bad for Theo, I just need to be sure that there
> are others who could keep project going.

same thing that happens for any open source volunteer project, or any
sole proprietorship...or any corporation.  Someone(s) may step up, they
may not.  They may succeed in keeping the team together, they may not.
The project may improve, it may "lessen".

A friend of mine used to work for a big corporate services company, one
that was structured for long-term survival and so on.  Well, she lost
her job quite unexpectedly shortly after much of the company's
leadership was lost all at once.  You see, their corporate offices were
in the top floors of the World Trade Center...

The only certainty is change.  Being that OpenBSD is lead by one person,
when that leadership changes, there WILL be change.  Hopefully, the net
will be good, but you can be sure it will be mixed.

That's true no matter what, though.  change happens.  it should always
be part of everything you implement -- the tools you use today may not
exist in two years, and probably won't exist in recognizable form in 20
years.  If you aren't a few weeks from retirement, this needs to be
thought about.

Part of any good implementation plan should include how a product *will
be replaced when need be*.  Most consumers aren't used to thinking about
that...however commercial software vendors are quite familiar with the
idea...and do what they can to keep you from switching products --
vendor lock-in.  The problem is...you have now locked your company's
future into the health and welfare not of that vendor, but of that PRODUCT.

I cringe when I see companies dropping all their documents into
proprietary document imaging systems and shredding the originals..  What
do they plan to do /when/ the product becomes unsupported and
unsupportable?  Do they realize they have married that company, not like
a modern marriage where a trip to a lawyer will dissolve it, but the old
style, "'til death do us part" style?  Usually not.

However, if OpenBSD vanished tomorrow, the current version and its
source code would be out there, someone will try to keep it up for a
while, I'm sure, and meanwhile, you can migrate elsewhere.

Compare this to committee run projects which have gone stagnant...were
people may not notice they have in effect shut down...


> 2nd: how would OpenBSD leaders and developers would react, that OS they
> developing is powering most illegal things which you probably can't
> dream on?

you know...I'm saddened.
not that "bad guys" are using OpenBSD...but that the "good guys" don't.
  We create the tools to take a battle tank into a spitball fight... and
they prefer the little plastic cap that says "Stay Dry" on it.  "It must
work, it says 'stay-dry!'"

Most people *still* haven't learned that there is more to security than
saying "I'm secure".  So the people selling kiddie porn are taking
security more seriously than your bank.  That says something, I don't
think I like what.

I wouldn't be surprised if some damn fool somewhere uses a connection to
"bad stuff" to discourage the use of OpenBSD and other good tools.  Lots
of damn fools in the world.

> What I'm saying, is it possible that under certain
> circumstances OpenBSD people could silently include trojan or any other
> related piece of code which could lead of compromise of machines which
> are powering deep web ?

I can't imagine anyone on the OpenBSD project going for the idea of
adding any kind of attack against any kind of user, as it could be used
to go after ALL kinds of users.  The track record of those kind of
things is bad -- usually, they end up causing as much trouble for the
innocent as the target ... see "Stuxnet".

Nick.

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Re: Two questions.

slhactivist
In reply to this post by Scott McEachern-2
@Scott

>>>I could win the lotto; gamma rays could destroy the planet; I could get
hit by a bus.  That's why the source and commit logs are *not* available to
the public, and the whole damn thing is proprietary. There is no possible
way anyone could know what the devs are doing.


Forgive my squirrelly ignorance, but everything the devs do is revealed
with each new release, is it not? How can you call the project proprietary?
Is it so uncommon to hide source and commit logs? (i.e. in other projects)



On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Scott McEachern <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Is it just me, or are the trolls around here getting more and more lame.
>
>
> On 08/09/13 00:00, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> I got couple of questions for whom I can't find an answers,
>>
>
> You've obviously thought long and very hard.
>
>
>  I do not wish anything bad for Theo, I just need to be sure that there
>> are others who could keep project going.
>>
>
> After running the OpenBSD project for over 20 years, I'm sure Theo never
> thought of that.  We all thank you for bringing it to his attention.
>
>
>  that OS they developing is powering most illegal things which you
>> probably can't dream on?
>>
>
> I'm sure OpenBSD devs are ashamed that I use it to power my
> kitten-stomping, baby-mulching machines.  I'm also sure the people that
> make hammers and knives feel really, really bad too.
>
>
>  OpenBSD people could silently include trojan
>>
>
> I could win the lotto; gamma rays could destroy the planet; I could get
> hit by a bus.  That's why the source and commit logs are *not* available to
> the public, and the whole damn thing is proprietary. There is no possible
> way anyone could know what the devs are doing.
>
>  Thanks for reading.
>>
>
> No, thank-YOU for pointing out such things for the very first time.
>
>
> To all that are reading, please let my lame attempt at humour be the first
> and only response. :)
>
> --
> Scott McEachern
>
> https://www.blackstaff.ca
>
> "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Two questions.

Nick Holland
On 08/09/2013 03:43 PM, slhac tivist wrote:

> @Scott
>
>>>> I could win the lotto; gamma rays could destroy the planet; I could get
> hit by a bus.  That's why the source and commit logs are *not* available to
> the public, and the whole damn thing is proprietary. There is no possible
> way anyone could know what the devs are doing.
>
>
> Forgive my squirrelly ignorance, but everything the devs do is revealed
> with each new release, is it not? How can you call the project proprietary?
> Is it so uncommon to hide source and commit logs? (i.e. in other projects)

sarcasm. everything the developers do is revealed within a few minutes
of being done. :)

Nick.

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Re: Two questions.

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by voicedw
> On 08/09/2013 12:00 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> ...
> > The first one. We all know that the operating system OpenBSD largely
> > depends on lead, so what will happen when time will come for Theo? We
> > all know that so far people do not live thousands of years... I think
> > that not only me would be interesting to know the future of this great
> > project in case something happens. Please do not misunderstand me here,
> > I do not wish anything bad for Theo, I just need to be sure that there
> > are others who could keep project going.
>
> same thing that happens for any open source volunteer project, or any
> sole proprietorship...or any corporation.  Someone(s) may step up, they
> may not.  They may succeed in keeping the team together, they may not.
> The project may improve, it may "lessen".

What a bunch of worrying balony.

I have asexually reproduced a few times, and put the other copies of
myself in stasis.

In the event that I fall off a mountain or get attacked by group of
dogs in central Turkey, a copy is automatically brought out of statis
to continue to effort.

The process is so transparent, that you won't even know if it has
happened before...

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Re: Two questions.

Philip Guenther-2
On Friday, August 9, 2013, Theo de Raadt wrote:

> The process is so transparent, that you won't even know if it has
> happened before...
>

Well, *some* of us have noticed when your scars "reset"...

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Re: Two questions.

Scott McEachern-2
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
On 08/09/13 20:45, Theo de Raadt wrote:

> What a bunch of worrying balony.
>
> I have asexually reproduced a few times, and put the other copies of
> myself in stasis.
>
> In the event that I fall off a mountain or get attacked by group of
> dogs in central Turkey, a copy is automatically brought out of statis
> to continue to effort.
>
> The process is so transparent, that you won't even know if it has
> happened before...
>

Sarcastic imposters like you really get on my nerves.

--
Scott McEachern

https://www.blackstaff.ca

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Two questions.

Michael W. Lucas-2
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
On Fri, Aug 09, 2013 at 06:45:10PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:

> > On 08/09/2013 12:00 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > ...
> > > The first one. We all know that the operating system OpenBSD largely
> > > depends on lead, so what will happen when time will come for Theo? We
> > > all know that so far people do not live thousands of years... I think
> > > that not only me would be interesting to know the future of this great
> > > project in case something happens. Please do not misunderstand me here,
> > > I do not wish anything bad for Theo, I just need to be sure that there
> > > are others who could keep project going.
> >
> > same thing that happens for any open source volunteer project, or any
> > sole proprietorship...or any corporation.  Someone(s) may step up, they
> > may not.  They may succeed in keeping the team together, they may not.
> > The project may improve, it may "lessen".
>
> What a bunch of worrying balony.
>
> I have asexually reproduced a few times, and put the other copies of
> myself in stasis.
>
> In the event that I fall off a mountain or get attacked by group of
> dogs in central Turkey, a copy is automatically brought out of statis
> to continue to effort.
>
> The process is so transparent, that you won't even know if it has
> happened before...

Excellent detail on the process. I'll get an errata out for Absolute
OpenBSD.

But I do wish you'd mentioned this before we went to print.

==ml

--
Michael W. Lucas  -  [hidden email], Twitter @mwlauthor
http://www.MichaelWLucas.com/, http://blather.MichaelWLucas.com/
Absolute OpenBSD 2/e - http://www.nostarch.com/openbsd2e
coupon code "ILUVMICHAEL" gets you 30% off & helps me.

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Re: Two questions.

patrick keshishian
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 5:45 PM, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> On 08/09/2013 12:00 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> ...
>> > The first one. We all know that the operating system OpenBSD largely
>> > depends on lead, so what will happen when time will come for Theo? We
>> > all know that so far people do not live thousands of years... I think
>> > that not only me would be interesting to know the future of this great
>> > project in case something happens. Please do not misunderstand me here,
>> > I do not wish anything bad for Theo, I just need to be sure that there
>> > are others who could keep project going.
>>
>> same thing that happens for any open source volunteer project, or any
>> sole proprietorship...or any corporation.  Someone(s) may step up, they
>> may not.  They may succeed in keeping the team together, they may not.
>> The project may improve, it may "lessen".
>
> What a bunch of worrying balony.
>
> I have asexually reproduced a few times, and put the other copies of
> myself in stasis.

Tomorrow's headlines: Theo of OpenBSD self-admitted reptilian!
Adding credibility to claims that OpenBSD has alien backdoors built in.

> In the event that I fall off a mountain or get attacked by group of
> dogs in central Turkey,

I hear you on that ;)

--patrick

p.s., could not resist.

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Re: Two questions.

Jeff O'Neal
In reply to this post by voicedw
So the rumors are true the movie below is based on the process developed/used by Theo......


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_(film)



Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> On 08/09/2013 12:00 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> ...
>> > The first one. We all know that the operating system OpenBSD largely
>> > depends on lead, so what will happen when time will come for Theo? We
>> > all know that so far people do not live thousands of years... I think
>> > that not only me would be interesting to know the future of this great
>> > project in case something happens. Please do not misunderstand me here,
>> > I do not wish anything bad for Theo, I just need to be sure that there
>> > are others who could keep project going.
>>
>> same thing that happens for any open source volunteer project, or any
>> sole proprietorship...or any corporation.  Someone(s) may step up, they
>> may not.  They may succeed in keeping the team together, they may not.
>> The project may improve, it may "lessen".
>
>What a bunch of worrying balony.
>
>I have asexually reproduced a few times, and put the other copies of
>myself in stasis.
>
>In the event that I fall off a mountain or get attacked by group of
>dogs in central Turkey, a copy is automatically brought out of statis
>to continue to effort.
>
>The process is so transparent, that you won't even know if it has
>happened before...

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Re: Two questions.

Greg Thomas
In reply to this post by Michael W. Lucas-2
On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Michael W. Lucas
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 09, 2013 at 06:45:10PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> > > On 08/09/2013 12:00 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > > ...
> > > > The first one. We all know that the operating system OpenBSD largely
> > > > depends on lead, so what will happen when time will come for Theo? We
> > > > all know that so far people do not live thousands of years... I think
> > > > that not only me would be interesting to know the future of this
> great
> > > > project in case something happens. Please do not misunderstand me
> here,
> > > > I do not wish anything bad for Theo, I just need to be sure that
> there
> > > > are others who could keep project going.
> > >
> > > same thing that happens for any open source volunteer project, or any
> > > sole proprietorship...or any corporation.  Someone(s) may step up, they
> > > may not.  They may succeed in keeping the team together, they may not.
> > > The project may improve, it may "lessen".
> >
> > What a bunch of worrying balony.
> >
> > I have asexually reproduced a few times, and put the other copies of
> > myself in stasis.
> >
> > In the event that I fall off a mountain or get attacked by group of
> > dogs in central Turkey, a copy is automatically brought out of statis
> > to continue to effort.
> >
> > The process is so transparent, that you won't even know if it has
> > happened before...
>
> Excellent detail on the process. I'll get an errata out for Absolute
> OpenBSD.
>
> But I do wish you'd mentioned this before we went to print.
>

Hahaha, very very nice.