The "clean" font

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The "clean" font

Christian Weisgerber
Various web sites specify the use of a font named "clean" in their
CSS.  We have a bitmapped font by that name and Firefox at least
ends up choosing it over its normal Trutype fallback font.  The result
is... ugly.

For some affected sites, try www.20minutes.fr or www.sueddeutsche.de.

I don't know what to do about this, but it is annoying.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          [hidden email]

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Re: The "clean" font

David Coppa
On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 3:12 PM, Christian Weisgerber <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Various web sites specify the use of a font named "clean" in their
> CSS.  We have a bitmapped font by that name and Firefox at least
> ends up choosing it over its normal Trutype fallback font.  The result
> is... ugly.
>
> For some affected sites, try www.20minutes.fr or www.sueddeutsche.de.
>
> I don't know what to do about this, but it is annoying.

This should be a working trick (the bits at the end):

https://github.com/jcs/dotfiles/blob/master/.fonts.conf

ciao
David

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Re: The "clean" font

Brett Mahar-2
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 13:12:52 +0000 (UTC)
[hidden email] (Christian Weisgerber) wrote:

> Various web sites specify the use of a font named "clean" in their
> CSS.  We have a bitmapped font by that name and Firefox at least
> ends up choosing it over its normal Trutype fallback font.  The result
> is... ugly.
>
> For some affected sites, try www.20minutes.fr or www.sueddeutsche.de.
>
> I don't know what to do about this, but it is annoying.
>
> --
> Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          [hidden email]
>

A workaround for firefox, preferences>content>advanced> untick the "allow pages to choose own fonts" ...and just have monospace or whatever for every site.

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Re: The "clean" font

Theo de Raadt
> A workaround for firefox, preferences>content>advanced> untick the
> "allow pages to choose own fonts" ...and just have monospace or
> whatever for every site.

You are completely missing the point.

If that workaround was the right thing to do, it would be the default.

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Re: The "clean" font

Stuart Henderson
In reply to this post by David Coppa
On 2012/07/08 16:14, David Coppa wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 3:12 PM, Christian Weisgerber <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Various web sites specify the use of a font named "clean" in their
> > CSS.  We have a bitmapped font by that name and Firefox at least
> > ends up choosing it over its normal Trutype fallback font.  The result
> > is... ugly.
> >
> > For some affected sites, try www.20minutes.fr or www.sueddeutsche.de.
> >
> > I don't know what to do about this, but it is annoying.
>
> This should be a working trick (the bits at the end):
>
> https://github.com/jcs/dotfiles/blob/master/.fonts.conf
>
> ciao
> David
>

I'm slightly less than keen on what that does to my terminals using terminus ;)

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Re: The "clean" font

Matthieu Herrb
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
On Sun, Jul 08, 2012 at 01:12:52PM +0000, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> Various web sites specify the use of a font named "clean" in their
> CSS.  We have a bitmapped font by that name and Firefox at least
> ends up choosing it over its normal Trutype fallback font.  The result
> is... ugly.
>
> For some affected sites, try www.20minutes.fr or www.sueddeutsche.de.
>
> I don't know what to do about this, but it is annoying.
>

The answer would be to add an entry for 'clean'. to
31-nonmst.conf... But:

On the 20mn.fr website everytime I found a reference to the 'clean'
font in a css, it was with this pattern :

   font-family:arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif

the question is why doesn't /etc/fonts/conf.d/31-nonmst.conf entry
that substitutes arial with DejaVu sans trigger...

(I don't want to mess with my laptops' desktop too much while
traveling, so I can't test on a fresh install easily until next
weekend).

--
Matthieu Herrb

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Re: The "clean" font

Matthieu Herrb
In reply to this post by Stuart Henderson
On Sun, Jul 08, 2012 at 04:29:02PM +0200, Stuart Henderson wrote:

> On 2012/07/08 16:14, David Coppa wrote:
> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 3:12 PM, Christian Weisgerber <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Various web sites specify the use of a font named "clean" in their
> > > CSS.  We have a bitmapped font by that name and Firefox at least
> > > ends up choosing it over its normal Trutype fallback font.  The result
> > > is... ugly.
> > >
> > > For some affected sites, try www.20minutes.fr or www.sueddeutsche.de.
> > >
> > > I don't know what to do about this, but it is annoying.
> >
> > This should be a working trick (the bits at the end):
> >
> > https://github.com/jcs/dotfiles/blob/master/.fonts.conf
> >
> > ciao
> > David
> >
>
> I'm slightly less than keen on what that does to my terminals using terminus ;)
>

If your terminals still use server-side rendered fonts (like Xterm
does, unless told explicitly to use Xft/fontconfig) they won't be
affected.

But yes I'm not thrilled at banning non-truetype fonts completely from
fontconfig. This is probably too gross as a default setting.
--
Matthieu Herrb

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Re: The "clean" font

Brett Mahar-2
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 08:22:36 -0600
Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > A workaround for firefox, preferences>content>advanced> untick the
> > "allow pages to choose own fonts" ...and just have monospace or
> > whatever for every site.
>
> You are completely missing the point.
>
> If that workaround was the right thing to do, it would be the default.
>

I know its not the right thing to do, that's why I called it a workaround :-)

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Re: The "clean" font

Stuart Henderson
In reply to this post by Matthieu Herrb
On 2012/07/08 16:55, Matthieu Herrb wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 08, 2012 at 04:29:02PM +0200, Stuart Henderson wrote:
> > On 2012/07/08 16:14, David Coppa wrote:
> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 3:12 PM, Christian Weisgerber <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > Various web sites specify the use of a font named "clean" in their
> > > > CSS.  We have a bitmapped font by that name and Firefox at least
> > > > ends up choosing it over its normal Trutype fallback font.  The result
> > > > is... ugly.
> > > >
> > > > For some affected sites, try www.20minutes.fr or www.sueddeutsche.de.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know what to do about this, but it is annoying.
> > >
> > > This should be a working trick (the bits at the end):
> > >
> > > https://github.com/jcs/dotfiles/blob/master/.fonts.conf
> > >
> > > ciao
> > > David
> > >
> >
> > I'm slightly less than keen on what that does to my terminals using terminus ;)
> >
>
> If your terminals still use server-side rendered fonts (like Xterm
> does, unless told explicitly to use Xft/fontconfig) they won't be
> affected.

I'm using urxvt here as it merges fonts (so I can use terminus for most
things, but it automatically uses another font when a glyph is missing).
(it also has a really stupid "keycap picture mode" on ctrl+shift but
the less said about that the better!)

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Re: The "clean" font

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Brett Mahar-2
> On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 08:22:36 -0600
> Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > > A workaround for firefox, preferences>content>advanced> untick the
> > > "allow pages to choose own fonts" ...and just have monospace or
> > > whatever for every site.
> >
> > You are completely missing the point.
> >
> > If that workaround was the right thing to do, it would be the default.
> >
>
> I know its not the right thing to do, that's why I called it a workaround :-)

You could ping flood those two web sites off the internet, so noone has
to run into that problem.  It's not the right thing to do, which is why
it would be called a workaround.

What happened is that you thought it was time to say something useless,
which adds no value to the conversation.

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Re: The "clean" font

Joerg Jung
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 13:12:52 +0000 (UTC), [hidden email] wrote:
> Various web sites specify the use of a font named "clean" in their
> CSS.  We have a bitmapped font by that name and Firefox at least
> ends up choosing it over its normal Trutype fallback font.  The
> result
> is... ugly.
>
> For some affected sites, try www.20minutes.fr or www.sueddeutsche.de.
>
> I don't know what to do about this, but it is annoying.

This seems to be a 'known' FF bug and other browser work for me:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718016

Could be workaround with fonts.conf entry as suggested here:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=69155

Regards,
Joerg

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Re: The "clean" font

David Coppa
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 1:09 AM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 13:12:52 +0000 (UTC), [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>> Various web sites specify the use of a font named "clean" in their
>> CSS.  We have a bitmapped font by that name and Firefox at least
>> ends up choosing it over its normal Trutype fallback font.  The result
>> is... ugly.
>>
>> For some affected sites, try www.20minutes.fr or www.sueddeutsche.de.
>>
>> I don't know what to do about this, but it is annoying.
>
>
> This seems to be a 'known' FF bug and other browser work for me:
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718016
>
> Could be workaround with fonts.conf entry as suggested here:
> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=69155

Indeed, this[1] is a better workaround.

[1] https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=532370#p532370

thanks,
David

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Re: The "clean" font

Christian Weisgerber
In reply to this post by Joerg Jung
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> This seems to be a 'known' FF bug and other browser work for me:
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718016

It's not clear to me where Fx goes wrong here, given that the "clean"
font does exist, something the commenters in the Bugzilla entry
appear to be unaware of.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          [hidden email]

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Re: The "clean" font

Joerg Jung
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 09:02:31AM +0000, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > This seems to be a 'known' FF bug and other browser work for me:
> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718016
>
> It's not clear to me where Fx goes wrong here, given that the "clean"
> font does exist, something the commenters in the Bugzilla entry
> appear to be unaware of.

It fails to choose the fonts in order (required) see testcase below.
Others, e.g. Webkit based browsers handle this correctly.
 
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<title>clean</title>
<body>
<p style="font:13px/1.539 helvetica;">helvetica</p>
<p style="font:13px/1.539 arial;">arial</p>
<p style="font:13px/1.539 clean;">clean</p>
<p style="font:13px/1.539 sans-serif;">sans-serif</p>
<hr />
<p style="font:13px/1.539 helvetica,arial,clean,sans-serif;">20minutes.fr style</p>
<p style="font:13px/1.539 helvetica,arial,sans-serif;">20minutes.fr style without clean</p>
</body>
</html>