SPARC minimum hardware specification

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SPARC minimum hardware specification

Mihai Popescu-3
Hello,

I never used a SPARC machine but I recall there are some people on the
list doing this.

What are the minimum requirements for a "decent" SPARC machine? I mean
by that a machine who is able to run OpenBSD as a desktop. I am
currently use a Pentium 4 3.2GHz with 2 GB DDR and it barely meets my
needs. Tell me please the CPU or the machine name, I will search the
prices :-).

Thanks

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

Francois Pussault-2
> ----------------------------------------
> From: Mihai Popescu <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thu Jul 16 20:09:30 CEST 2015
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Subject: SPARC minimum hardware specification
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I never used a SPARC machine but I recall there are some people on the
> list doing this.
>
> What are the minimum requirements for a "decent" SPARC machine? I mean
> by that a machine who is able to run OpenBSD as a desktop. I am
> currently use a Pentium 4 3.2GHz with 2 GB DDR and it barely meets my
> needs. Tell me please the CPU or the machine name, I will search the
> prices :-).
>
> Thanks
>

Hello

Getting a cool little sparc machine is a nice project.
They are quite expensive compared to their setup & a little bit hard to find, if you're looking for a specific model.

I think you may not try to get a too old machine (ultras2/60/80) they are mythic, they are cool but too rare to be cheap.
and not so much powerfull ...

for cheaper price :
Maybe somme v4xx or v2xx should be a good choice for budget...like v490....
this one should be easy to find : maybe a t5220 (8 cores 16Gb ram & 1 disk should be about 250$/300$ max..

you may know they make big noise (at boot time in particular)..... & ask lot power

I hope it can help you...


Cordialement
Francois Pussault
10 chemin de négo saoumos
apt 202 - bat 2
31300 Toulouse
+33 6 17 230 820   +33 5 34 365 269
[hidden email]

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

Miod Vallat
In reply to this post by Mihai Popescu-3
> What are the minimum requirements for a "decent" SPARC machine? I mean
> by that a machine who is able to run OpenBSD as a desktop. I am
> currently use a Pentium 4 3.2GHz with 2 GB DDR and it barely meets my
> needs. Tell me please the CPU or the machine name, I will search the
> prices :-).

I doubt any sparc hardware would fit. Not even a Sun Blade 2500.

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

Craig Skinner-3
In reply to this post by Mihai Popescu-3
On 2015-07-16 Thu 21:09 PM |, Mihai Popescu wrote:
>
> I never used a SPARC machine but I recall there are some people on the
> list doing this.
>

Platform Specific Lists
[hidden email]
        OpenBSD/sparc and OpenBSD/sparc64 ports
http://www.openbsd.org/mail.html

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

Maurice Janssen-2
In reply to this post by Francois Pussault-2
On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 08:25:20PM +0200, Francois Pussault wrote:
>> What are the minimum requirements for a "decent" SPARC machine? I mean
>> by that a machine who is able to run OpenBSD as a desktop.
<...>
>for cheaper price :
>Maybe somme v4xx or v2xx should be a good choice for budget...like v490....

I hope you are making a joke.  You definately don't want to use such
a noisy beast as a desktop.

--
Maurice

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

Karel Gardas
In reply to this post by Mihai Popescu-3
On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 8:09 PM, Mihai Popescu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What are the minimum requirements for a "decent" SPARC machine? I mean
> by that a machine who is able to run OpenBSD as a desktop. I am
> currently use a Pentium 4 3.2GHz with 2 GB DDR and it barely meets my

The problem is that Intel is really on top with CPU performance --
well let's not-consider POWER8 for now. This P4 @ 3.2 is quite
powerful, I'm even not sure if decent SPARC64 like SPARC64 VII+ 2.7
GHz will get to your P4 performance on single-threaded. It'll probably
wipe the flour with it on multi-threading benchmark especially if you
consider 4 core CPU which provides 2 threads per core.

So well, you would like to know my dream machine? SPARC M3000. One of
the most silent (47 dBA!), but yet powerful SPARCs. Unfortunately see
prices on eBay. No way... If you do have server room, then M4000 is
way much affordable but be prepared for big power consumption (around
1kW) and noise is on 59 dBA and weight? ~80kg...

The advantage of SPARC64 is that it's way more powerful than even the
fastest UltraSPARC built into Ultra45 which was the last Sun's
dual-cpu SPARC workstation. Again see prices. More affordable are
Blade 1500/2500 silver/red with nearly the same cpu like last Ultra's
25/45. Well, check prices for yourself. Have fun!

Karel

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

Francois Pussault-2
In reply to this post by Maurice Janssen-2
> ----------------------------------------
> From: Maurice Janssen <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thu Jul 16 22:55:05 CEST 2015
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 08:25:20PM +0200, Francois Pussault wrote:
> >> What are the minimum requirements for a "decent" SPARC machine? I mean
> >> by that a machine who is able to run OpenBSD as a desktop.
> <...>
> >for cheaper price :
> >Maybe somme v4xx or v2xx should be a good choice for budget...like v490....
>
> I hope you are making a joke.  You definately don't want to use such
> a noisy beast as a desktop.
>
> --
> Maurice
>





Ironic...

It's possible .... but as you say it's just mad to do so ....




Cordialement
Francois Pussault
10 chemin de négo saoumos
apt 202 - bat 2
31300 Toulouse
+33 6 17 230 820   +33 5 34 365 269
[hidden email]

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

Riccardo Mottola
In reply to this post by Mihai Popescu-3
Hi,

Mihai Popescu wrote:
> What are the minimum requirements for a "decent" SPARC machine? I mean
> by that a machine who is able to run OpenBSD as a desktop. I am
> currently use a Pentium 4 3.2GHz with 2 GB DDR and it barely meets my
> needs. Tell me please the CPU or the machine name, I will search the
> prices:-).
if "desktop" includes "browsing" the answer is "none". None that can
won't be too big or too noisy.

Your P4 is still a mighty machine as a CPU, but it is single-core and
has a terribly long pipeline too: today for browsing and most web-based
stuff it is just not enough, even a slower, but dual-core cpu works better.
And you need a decent graphics card too.

The only non-intel machines that could be used as a desktop were PPC
macs, but even those suffer today.

For all the rest, including development, compilation, email,
newsgroup... even a decently fitted Ultra workstation could do.

I used to have "non intel" hardware for everything, but today it is not
feasible anymore. You just need an intel laptop for that convenience.
Not only for the power, but also because Firefox & friends often show
bugs on non-intel. Furthermore if you do need Skype or other proprietary
crap, you need Linux at least or directly Windows/Mac.

I love all my alternative architectures and OS's... but I need to have a
standard piece of hardware handy. A pity, but for my even basic needs it
is that way.
SSH to your sparc box, export display.

Riccardo

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

Karel Gardas
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Riccardo Mottola
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> The only non-intel machines that could be used as a desktop were PPC macs,
> but even those suffer today.

Do you have any experience with SPARC64 VI/VII? I'm curious since I've
thought this is the only chip which can give some hope for this so I'm
curious if I've been wrong on this.

Thanks,
Karel

BSD
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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

BSD
In reply to this post by Mihai Popescu-3
On Thu, 16 Jul 2015 21:09:30 +0300
Mihai Popescu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I never used a SPARC machine but I recall there are some people on the
> list doing this.
>
> What are the minimum requirements for a "decent" SPARC machine? I mean
> by that a machine who is able to run OpenBSD as a desktop. I am
> currently use a Pentium 4 3.2GHz with 2 GB DDR and it barely meets my
> needs. Tell me please the CPU or the machine name, I will search the
> prices :-).
>
> Thanks
>

Hello Misc,

As a new user, I find myself in the same position as the OP: very
interested in non-Intel products. But there seems to be a vacuum of
information around this topic. (Which tells me I'm on the right track)

No operating system can protect itself from its own hardware. So how
does one protect one's family in these hostile and trying times and
what-not?

The replies to the OP seem discouraging. If not Oracle, and not
Fujitsu, then what? If not a sparc desktop, then what about a sparc
router? A RISC anything??

I have yet to achieve that warm fuzzy feeling, and I fear that it is
not within my reach. Long live Puffy!


All the best,

Keith Larsen
CPS Coatings
318-222-6100

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

Karel Gardas
Have you seen TemLib[1]? That's may be the way for SPARC, otherwise
MIPS64/Octeon or ARM.

Good luck!
Karel

[1]: http://temlib.org/site/

On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 6:15 PM, BSD <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Jul 2015 21:09:30 +0300
> Mihai Popescu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I never used a SPARC machine but I recall there are some people on the
>> list doing this.
>>
>> What are the minimum requirements for a "decent" SPARC machine? I mean
>> by that a machine who is able to run OpenBSD as a desktop. I am
>> currently use a Pentium 4 3.2GHz with 2 GB DDR and it barely meets my
>> needs. Tell me please the CPU or the machine name, I will search the
>> prices :-).
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>
> Hello Misc,
>
> As a new user, I find myself in the same position as the OP: very
> interested in non-Intel products. But there seems to be a vacuum of
> information around this topic. (Which tells me I'm on the right track)
>
> No operating system can protect itself from its own hardware. So how
> does one protect one's family in these hostile and trying times and
> what-not?
>
> The replies to the OP seem discouraging. If not Oracle, and not
> Fujitsu, then what? If not a sparc desktop, then what about a sparc
> router? A RISC anything??
>
> I have yet to achieve that warm fuzzy feeling, and I fear that it is
> not within my reach. Long live Puffy!
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Keith Larsen
> CPS Coatings
> 318-222-6100

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

Christian Weisgerber
In reply to this post by BSD
On 2015-07-17, BSD <[hidden email]> wrote:

> As a new user, I find myself in the same position as the OP: very
> interested in non-Intel products. But there seems to be a vacuum of
> information around this topic.

You're 15 years too late.  x86 has won.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          [hidden email]

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

Benjamin Perrault
> On Jul 17, 2015, at 1:45 PM, Christian Weisgerber <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 2015-07-17, BSD <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> As a new user, I find myself in the same position as the OP: very
>> interested in non-Intel products. But there seems to be a vacuum of
>> information around this topic.
>
> You're 15 years too late.  x86 has won.

I couldn’t have said it better.

To my knowledge - the fastest non-x86 desktop type system that OpenBSD runs on in the PowerMac G5, it’s 10 years old, and a nicely specked can cost almost as much as a much faster x86 box.

Things like the BeagleBones and Edge Routers are great for what they are - be it a router or embedded platform or simple web server, etc. - but the modern desktop environment and things like firefox are just to slow on anything non intel esp. w/o accelerate graphics. Just how it is.

-bp
@creepingfur
------------

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

Jiri B-2
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 08:45:23PM +0000, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2015-07-17, BSD <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > As a new user, I find myself in the same position as the OP: very
> > interested in non-Intel products. But there seems to be a vacuum of
> > information around this topic.
>
> You're 15 years too late.  x86 has won.

Generally yes but there's still POWER8 and OpenPOWER
group. They claim docs should be open and TYAN[1] has
a cheap server with POWER8.

IBM won't kill this HW as they invested money to have
OpenStack running on it, they also ported KVM on POWER8.

[1] http://www.tyan.com/solutions/tyan_openpower_system.html

j.

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Mihai Popescu-3
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 08:45:23PM +0000, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> > On 2015-07-17, BSD <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > As a new user, I find myself in the same position as the OP: very
> > > interested in non-Intel products. But there seems to be a vacuum of
> > > information around this topic.
> >
> > You're 15 years too late.  x86 has won.
>
> Generally yes but there's still POWER8 and OpenPOWER
> group. They claim docs should be open and TYAN[1] has
> a cheap server with POWER8.
>
> IBM won't kill this HW as they invested money to have
> OpenStack running on it, they also ported KVM on POWER8.
>
> [1] http://www.tyan.com/solutions/tyan_openpower_system.html

I suspect your diff was MIME encoded, and therefore got removed...

Please be realistic.

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

Karel Gardas
In reply to this post by Jiri B-2
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Jiri B <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Generally yes but there's still POWER8 and OpenPOWER
> group. They claim docs should be open and TYAN[1] has
> a cheap server with POWER8.

I would not bet on POWER8 on desktop, it's too big beast, rather on
smaller ARMv8 which is already winning on mobile...

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

Seth
In reply to this post by BSD
On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 09:15:14 -0700, BSD <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The replies to the OP seem discouraging. If not Oracle, and not
> Fujitsu, then what? If not a sparc desktop, then what about a sparc
> router? A RISC anything??

You might be interested in Bunny's Novena project [1] [2]

[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/misc%40openbsd.org/msg126490.html

[2] https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

Patrick Dohman
If I’m not mistaken the PS3 had a PPC as well.

Many of the intel alternatives do a better job at math & calculations in my opinion while PPC & SPARC may need additional time to execute operations often there are fewer errors and the results are far more accurate.

This quite obvious on the PS3. Things like X & Y coordinate mappings were often very accurate. Seemingly intel aims to disregard this type of accuracy.

Regards
Patrick


> On Jul 18, 2015, at 9:19 AM, Seth <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 09:15:14 -0700, BSD <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The replies to the OP seem discouraging. If not Oracle, and not
>> Fujitsu, then what? If not a sparc desktop, then what about a sparc
>> router? A RISC anything??
>
> You might be interested in Bunny's Novena project [1] [2]
>
> [1] http://www.mail-archive.com/misc%40openbsd.org/msg126490.html
>
> [2] https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena

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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

John Long-4
In reply to this post by BSD
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 11:15:14AM -0500, BSD wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Jul 2015 21:09:30 +0300
> Mihai Popescu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I never used a SPARC machine but I recall there are some people on the
> > list doing this.
> >
> > What are the minimum requirements for a "decent" SPARC machine? I mean
> > by that a machine who is able to run OpenBSD as a desktop. I am
> > currently use a Pentium 4 3.2GHz with 2 GB DDR and it barely meets my
> > needs. Tell me please the CPU or the machine name, I will search the
> > prices :-).

Sun Fire servers are cheap to buy but not to run. A V210 is a 1U box and
with dual 1.35 CPUs it is fast enough for desktop use. It's not something
most people with families or without a flightline headset are going to want
sitting next to their desk though and you will need some air conditioning.

You didn't say much about your needs so it's hard to know why your current
setup isn't satisfactory but 2G of RAM is often not enough for a desktop
these days. All it takes is a fairly recent version of Firefox with a bunch
of tabs open and a few big PDFs open in Acroreadto use up that amount of
RAM.

> The replies to the OP seem discouraging. If not Oracle, and not
> Fujitsu, then what? If not a sparc desktop, then what about a sparc
> router? A RISC anything??

OpenBSD mips64el runs oustandingly well on the Lemote boxes. See here:
http://www.openbsd.org/loongson.html

I don't think anybody will be happy with a Loongson as a desktop box but
they do shine tiny servers.

/jl

--
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Re: SPARC minimum hardware specification

bofh-6
So what are good mips or arm motherboards nowadays?  I have an openbsd box
at home I need to upgrade.  Might as well take a look at non-x86 stuff, as
long as they can take SATA... :)

123