Request for Funding our Electricity

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Tito Mari Francis Escano-2
For additional financial source, may I suggest that the project license
some of their artworks? I think this has been asked for so many times
before, maybe you should reconsider your stand on this. Of course Theo or
the OpenBSD project as a whole, or the OBSD Foundation can define which
artwork is licensed for what purpose and to whom or what organization.
OpenBSD may be sitting too long on this potentially lucrative asset. We
have to be clear that the objective is to keep the project sustainable.
What do you think? Hope this helps.


On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 7:02 AM, Ted Unangst <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 16:12, Erik Mitchell wrote:
>
> > I have not actively kept up with this list so forgive me if this can't
> > be done, or isn't in line with the community's values, but what about
> > doing a Kickstarter campaign for each OpenBSD release? Varying levels
> > of support could get the different levels of swag that are already
> > distributed: CD/DVD distributions, t-shirts, stickers, etc...
> >
> > One could also just contribute $10-$20 to be a supporter, and receive
> > nothing material.
>
> You can do all this (and more!) on the website today. And you get
> soonish delivery without having to wait until a thousand other people
> donate. And the project doesn't have to pay out a cut to yet another
> middleman.

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
>previously on this list Theo contributed:
>
>> The OpenBSD project uses a lot of electricity for running the
>> development and build machines.  A number of logistical reasons
>> prevents us from moving the machines to another location which might
>> offer space/power for free, so let's not allow the conversation to go
>> that way.
>
>Especially if you have some land in Canada and manage to raise a
>significant bit extra, a Peltier energy harvesting system due to
>the difference in surface and sub-surface land temperature might be
>worth looking at to help balance the books longer term.
>
>The Aston Martin plant runs off one entirely but cost a fortune to
>drill a deep bore hole to get a large temperature difference, but then
>their building is huge and produces cars with enough power to run a
>town.
>
>Alternatively a small scale system building it into a wall to get the
>difference between the cold Canadian winter outside and warm inside
>might work well.

That's a great idea.

I'm going drag a subgroup of the developers away from software
development and we'll start working on that instead.

Right away.

To fund the drilling, we'll hold a bake sale.

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Jason Koch
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
No need to respond to this: just ideas if they're not already covered. I've
just made my donation.

For what it's worth - you can see the numbers on wikimedia's donations,
from 2009. I wouldn't discount the $10 user base.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Staeiou/Protocol [see the graphs on
fundraising below].

Other idea if not already taken care of - You could also get non-coding
contributors to handle the CD & stickers etc, if you don't already have
that happening. Then the fundraising arm wouldn't take away from coding
time.

Thanks
Jason



On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]>wrote:

> > > Anyone want to suggest we hold a bake sale?
> >
> > I will take this opportunity to suggest a probably bad idea but one
> > that crossed my mind nonetheless.
> >
> > I have not actively kept up with this list so forgive me if this can't
> > be done, or isn't in line with the community's values, but what about
> > doing a Kickstarter campaign for each OpenBSD release? Varying levels
> > of support could get the different levels of swag that are already
> > distributed: CD/DVD distributions, t-shirts, stickers, etc...
>
> The problem with this model is that once again
>     - we are the ones who need to supply more;
>     - we need to promising the goods;
>     - we are the ones who need to invest;
>     - we are supposed to do the extra work;
>     - we are supposed to take time away from coding.
>
> Don't we do enough?
>
> Regarding the swag.  The entire OpenBSD project now probably gets 1/4
> of revenue out of CD, tshirt sales, but in this model we'd have to
> give much of that out to people who contribute, and it will probably
> be less.
>
> Remember to add shipping, now paid on this end, instead of by the buyer.
>
> > One could also just contribute $10-$20 to be a supporter, and receive
> > nothing material.
>
> $20?  To break even with the above issues, call it $100 minimum.  Does
> it still work?  Is there evidence?
>
> And once this turn process on, if it doesn't work, are we even more dead
> in the water?
>
> > Nodejitsu recently raised $256k with their Scalenpm campaign. I would
> > imagine there are enough people out there who care about OpenBSD too
> > whereby a significant amount of money could be raised.
>
> Would that work every year?
>
> I doubt mindshare of this sort works repeatedly.

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Salim Shaw-2
Perhaps it's time to slightly increase the cost of CD purchases. I know
it's not a favorite thing to do, but necessary for sustainability.


On 01/14/2014 07:30 PM, Jason Koch wrote:

> No need to respond to this: just ideas if they're not already covered. I've
> just made my donation.
>
> For what it's worth - you can see the numbers on wikimedia's donations,
> from 2009. I wouldn't discount the $10 user base.
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Staeiou/Protocol [see the graphs on
> fundraising below].
>
> Other idea if not already taken care of - You could also get non-coding
> contributors to handle the CD & stickers etc, if you don't already have
> that happening. Then the fundraising arm wouldn't take away from coding
> time.
>
> Thanks
> Jason
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>>>> Anyone want to suggest we hold a bake sale?
>>> I will take this opportunity to suggest a probably bad idea but one
>>> that crossed my mind nonetheless.
>>>
>>> I have not actively kept up with this list so forgive me if this can't
>>> be done, or isn't in line with the community's values, but what about
>>> doing a Kickstarter campaign for each OpenBSD release? Varying levels
>>> of support could get the different levels of swag that are already
>>> distributed: CD/DVD distributions, t-shirts, stickers, etc...
>> The problem with this model is that once again
>>      - we are the ones who need to supply more;
>>      - we need to promising the goods;
>>      - we are the ones who need to invest;
>>      - we are supposed to do the extra work;
>>      - we are supposed to take time away from coding.
>>
>> Don't we do enough?
>>
>> Regarding the swag.  The entire OpenBSD project now probably gets 1/4
>> of revenue out of CD, tshirt sales, but in this model we'd have to
>> give much of that out to people who contribute, and it will probably
>> be less.
>>
>> Remember to add shipping, now paid on this end, instead of by the buyer.
>>
>>> One could also just contribute $10-$20 to be a supporter, and receive
>>> nothing material.
>> $20?  To break even with the above issues, call it $100 minimum.  Does
>> it still work?  Is there evidence?
>>
>> And once this turn process on, if it doesn't work, are we even more dead
>> in the water?
>>
>>> Nodejitsu recently raised $256k with their Scalenpm campaign. I would
>>> imagine there are enough people out there who care about OpenBSD too
>>> whereby a significant amount of money could be raised.
>> Would that work every year?
>>
>> I doubt mindshare of this sort works repeatedly.

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
Nicolai, and others,

I'd like to take the opportunity to thank all of those stepping up
to the call for contributions.  Every little bit helps.

For those who ask, the OpenBSD Foundation is the best path for
contributions.

I hope some larger contributors will step up, to take a more long term
view (like Google does).  Rather than the "little people" funding our
efforts.  Many of the things we do in OpenBSD are often incorporated
into products made by multi-million dollar companies.

This is not a BSD vs GPL issue, it is about a plain lack of goodwill,
something you cannot mandate via a license.  A lack of goodwill is
effectively badwill.

There is a good list in the last paragraph of the OpenSSH web site.
Maybe the community's activism can make inroads there which we have
not been able to.

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Predrag Punosevac-2
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 04:56:14PM -0600, Kent R. Spillner wrote:

> Anyways, talk is cheap so I'm going to go make a donation now.  If everyone
> reading this did the same this thread could die, and OpenBSD wouldn't.
+1

$10 monthly recurring donation

Predrag

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Loganaden Velvindron-2
In reply to this post by Donald Allen
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 12:40 AM, Donald Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 3:03 PM, Bob Beck <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>    Just to bring this issue back to the forefront.
>>
>> In light of shrinking funding, we do need to look for a source to
>> cover project expenses.  If need be the OpenBSD Foundation can be
>> involved in receiving donations to cover project electrical costs.
>>
>> But the fact is right now, OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have
>> the funding to keep the lights on.
>>
>> If you or a company you know are able to assist us, it would be
>> greatly appreciated, but right now we are looking at a significant
>> funding shortfall for the upcoming year - Meaning the project won't be
>> able to cover 20 thousand dollars in electrical expenses before being
>> able to use money for other things. That sort of situation is not
>> sustainable.
>
> There's an equation that has to be satisfied here. It has a demand
> side and a supply side. You demand a certain amount of electricity and
> someone has to supply the money to pay for it. I'm going to be blunt
> here, in an effort to be helpful (it's also not foreign to the OpenBSD
> style). I get the impression that the demand for electricity is viewed
> as a given:  you use what you use and people need to step up and
> provide the money to pay for it. If I'm wrong, please say so. But if
> I'm right, the demand can be adjusted. Sometimes you need to eat
> cornflakes instead of caviar. For example, I've never understood why
> this project supports the old architectures it does, considering the
> associated costs. The recent discussion of a need for a replacement
> Vax for package-building illustrates that.
>
> Perhaps this is an opportunity to reassess the scope of the project
> and trim some things that can no longer be justified on a cost-benefit
> basis.
>
> If the choice is between shutting the project down and reducing its
> scope to something sustainable, it's a no-brainer. This project has
> made really significant contributions, both in the obvious area,
> security, but also to the art of managing and building complex
> software that is reliable. To have it go away rather than trim its
> sails in way that acknowledges reality would really be a shame.
>
> /Don Allen
>

I'm not involved deeply in OpenBSD, but you'd be surprised at the
number of software that
incorporates OpenBSD improvements that you and I use.

If you run nsd or unbound:

(from nsd changelog)

Bugfixes:

Fix for accept spinning reported by OpenBSD.

OpenBSD security improvements are often submitted to other projects so
that everybody can benefit:

    Fix bug where clear_remove() and clear_inodedeps() would not iterate
    over the entire pagedep and inodedep hash tables due to an off-by-one
    mistake in loops.  Spotted by and diff from Pedro Martelletto. Sent
    upstream to Kirk and also fixed in FreeBSD.
    ok otto@ millert@

These are just 2 examples that I picked, but there are many more.

OpenSSH wouldn't be reliable if it wasn't tested on HPPA and sparc64:

(I'm pretty sure I saw a bunch of commits wrt to alignment issues that
were discovered
on HPPA or sparc64 for OpenSSH).

If we "re-view the project", we end up with OpenBSD not being able to
make continuous improvements to the whole
world as well as it is doing right now.

So let's do our best to allow the project to grow  :-) !

>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I am resending this request for funding our electricity bills because
>>> it is not yet resolved.
>>>
>>> We really need even more funding beyond that, because otherwise all of
>>> this is simply unsustainable.  This request is the smallest we can
>>> make.
>>>
>>> -------
>>>
>>> Hi everyone.
>>>
>>> The OpenBSD project uses a lot of electricity for running the
>>> development and build machines.  A number of logistical reasons
>>> prevents us from moving the machines to another location which might
>>> offer space/power for free, so let's not allow the conversation to go
>>> that way.
>>>
>>> We are looking for a Canadian company who will take on our electrical
>>> expenses -- on their books, rather than on our books.  We would be
>>> happiest to find someone who will do this on an annual recurring
>>> basis.
>>>
>>> That way the various OpenBSD efforts can be supported, yet written off
>>> as an off-site operations cost by such a company.  If we reduce this
>>> cost, it will leave more money for other parts of the project.
>>>
>>> We think that a Canadian company is the best choice for accounting
>>> reasons.  If a company in some other jurisdiction feels they can also
>>> do this successfully, we'd be very happy to hear from them as well.
>>>
>>> I am not going to disclose the actual numbers here.  Please contact me
>>> for details if serious.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>



--
This message is strictly personal and the opinions expressed do not
represent those of my employers, either past or present.

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Riccardo Mottola
Hi,

Loganaden Velvindron wrote:
> OpenSSH wouldn't be reliable if it wasn't tested on HPPA and sparc64:
>
> (I'm pretty sure I saw a bunch of commits wrt to alignment issues that
> were discovered
> on HPPA or sparc64 for OpenSSH).
being myself a developer of several applications, I can only praise
that. The quality of "Linux-x86" only software is quite evident lately.

I have discovered in the past a lot of bugs in my own software by
running it on different architectures and different operating systems.
Even if we "love" our own BSD or Linux flavour... I once discovered a
bug by testing on AIX/POWER... that affected any platform, but
reproduced reliably only there.

Sparc and PA-RISC discover a lot of bugs (I'd love to say for their
superior architectures) due to alignments, stack treatment, structure
handling.

Often it is a burden, one has to fight with buggy compilers, strange
bootloaders and aging hardware, but it has paid off more than once.

This personal experience can surely be extended to other libraries and
to whole operating system(s).


Riccardo

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Romain FABBRI - Alien Consulting
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
It's been a while I want to buy Tshirts and sweatshirts but they never are
available (right size for some, total availability for others).
I mean if CD's and shirts do weight for a third of the the fundings...  the
store should be a little more "pro" (speaking about products availabilty)

It's a fantastic project, made by great people.
Keep the good work... I'm sure you will find some way for your fundings.

Ps : Just found some shirts left on the german website
(http://www.ixsoft.de/), is buying on it OK ?

-----Message d'origine-----
De : [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] De la part de
Theo de Raadt
Envoyé : mercredi 15 janvier 2014 02:36
À : Nicolai
Cc : [hidden email]
Objet : Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Nicolai, and others,

I'd like to take the opportunity to thank all of those stepping up to the
call for contributions.  Every little bit helps.

For those who ask, the OpenBSD Foundation is the best path for
contributions.

I hope some larger contributors will step up, to take a more long term view
(like Google does).  Rather than the "little people" funding our efforts.
Many of the things we do in OpenBSD are often incorporated into products
made by multi-million dollar companies.

This is not a BSD vs GPL issue, it is about a plain lack of goodwill,
something you cannot mandate via a license.  A lack of goodwill is
effectively badwill.

There is a good list in the last paragraph of the OpenSSH web site.
Maybe the community's activism can make inroads there which we have not been
able to.

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Luca Ferrari
In reply to this post by Bob Beck
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 9:18 PM, Bob Beck <[hidden email]> wrote:
> And actually, if you're reading this, you can help by passing this on
> to people you know *off these lists*.

Is it worth to post a "call for support" on the official website
front-page (and the foundation one too)? Just to emphasize the need
for electricity now.

Luca

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Stuart Henderson
In reply to this post by Romain FABBRI - Alien Consulting
On 2014-01-15, Romain FABBRI - Alien Consulting <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It's been a while I want to buy Tshirts and sweatshirts but they never are
> available (right size for some, total availability for others).
> I mean if CD's and shirts do weight for a third of the the fundings...  the
> store should be a little more "pro" (speaking about products availabilty)
>
> It's a fantastic project, made by great people.
> Keep the good work... I'm sure you will find some way for your fundings.
>
> Ps : Just found some shirts left on the german website
> (http://www.ixsoft.de/), is buying on it OK ?

btw, if anyone spots a site that has any of the 5.3 t-shirts left
in L, please drop me a mail offlist. ;)

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Berger Steffan
In reply to this post by Kent R. Spillner-2
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 04:56:14PM -0600, Kent R. Spillner wrote:
> Anyways, talk is cheap so I'm going to go make a donation now.  If everyone
> reading this did the same this thread could die, and OpenBSD wouldn't.

i've just spent a few dollars and I try to do it more often.
Nevertheless, it is certainly a good idea to look for a company who can pay the electricity.
However, I am not veryp optimistic that such a company can be found (in our world).

Thanks for providing good software.

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Franchini Fabien
How about to write a letter/email in the name of the OpenBSD
Fundation to each company who use OpenBSD products ?

I'm sure that the majority of theses company doesn't read undeadly.org
and doesn't even know that we need support.

Best regards

________________________________________
De : Berger Steffan [[hidden email]]
Envoyé : mercredi 15 janvier 2014 13:13
À : [hidden email]
Objet : Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 04:56:14PM -0600, Kent R. Spillner wrote:
> Anyways, talk is cheap so I'm going to go make a donation now.  If everyone
> reading this did the same this thread could die, and OpenBSD wouldn't.

i've just spent a few dollars and I try to do it more often.
Nevertheless, it is certainly a good idea to look for a company who can pay the electricity.
However, I am not veryp optimistic that such a company can be found (in our world).

Thanks for providing good software.

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Gilles LAMIRAL
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
Dear Theo,

> Don't we do enough?

You already do too much.

> Regarding the swag.  The entire OpenBSD project now probably gets 1/4
> of revenue out of CD

Why don't you do for the website software downloads what you do for the CDs?
Make users pay the downloads from the official website as you make them pay for the CDs.
No need to change the license.
No need to care about parallel free downloads, they will be there soon
for poor users or smart users than can type "openbsd download" in a search engine.
Add lifetime of OpenBSD updates without extra payment (a mailing-list can announce them).
Add 30 days money-back guarantee! (any reason qualifies).
Add invoice.

> Would that work every year?

Every day.

> I doubt mindshare of this sort works repeatedly.

No doubt it will work but I guess I'm the only one on earth to know that.
Of course, I already ear all possible arguments claiming it can't work,
it won't be free/open software anymore etc.
Openbsd won't just be gratis from the homepage, that's all.

It works for me for more than three years for a very small software much worse,
much smaller, less well known than the OpenBSD system.

That's the buying of OpenBSD CDs that made me think about this business model.
I'm lazy so I didn't want the hard stuff of building and sending CDs.

Numerically it works 100 times (yes a hundred times) better than a permanent call for donation,
that's what I measured, how surprising!, that is what I still benefit every day.

You won't have to sell CDs or teeshirts anymore, just coding, paying electricity and coders.


--
Au revoir,                             09 51 84 42 42
Gilles Lamiral. France, Baulon (35580) 06 20 79 76 06

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Bob Beck
In reply to this post by Luca Ferrari
Yes, I believe so - and we'll be ramping that up shortly . but
realisticly the need is for
donations in general - electricity is one thing that the funding can
be applied to.

On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 3:27 AM, Luca Ferrari <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 9:18 PM, Bob Beck <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> And actually, if you're reading this, you can help by passing this on
>> to people you know *off these lists*.
>
> Is it worth to post a "call for support" on the official website
> front-page (and the foundation one too)? Just to emphasize the need
> for electricity now.
>
> Luca

MJ
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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

MJ
In reply to this post by Gilles LAMIRAL
On 15 Jan 2014, at 16.35, Gilles LAMIRAL <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Theo,
>
>> Don't we do enough?
>
> You already do too much.

I have long held the opinion that Theo is probably the best coder on this planet. That’s not any sort of ass-kissing, either, it’s my objective, unbiased opinion. And I know Henning personally, as in “live and worked together with him" - one hell of an expert.

However, the dilemma that the project has found itself in now very clearly demonstrates that Theo is not a businessman and that there isn’t any other businessman at the helm, either. Imagining that people will suddenly start to pay for something that they have constantly been getting for free is absurd - their belief is that somebody else will surely step up first or somebody will fork in the name of fame. No business on this planet is going to allocate budget to paying OpenBSD’s electricity bills, let alone anything else, without 1) a detailed itemisation of the electrical bills, 2) a detailed justification of said line items, and 3) a satisfaction of their own business interest. It’s just not sexy for a philanthropist to support a relatively unheard of operating system when cancer is still left uncured.

It’s not good to be removing coders from their tasks; the project needs a businessman or two. One who will handle the corporate feature requests and charge dearly for them. Things like routing technology and high-speed packet forwarding - things that can replace the exorbitant costs of maintaining cisco routers. This is the key. With the FBSD 10GB wire speed packet forwarding incorporated, OpenBSD would be ready to challenge Cisco in a very serious way. Completely free as always, but with paid support for this edge cases that make life what it is.

Thanks Theo, Henning, and all of the rest of you.


-mike

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

matteo filippetto
15 EUR donation

Thanks devs for your great work!

--
Matteo Filippetto
http://www.op83.eu

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

agrquinonez
In reply to this post by MJ
On 15/01/14 08:25 AM, MJ wrote:
> On 15 Jan 2014, at 16.35, Gilles LAMIRAL <[hidden email]>
wrote:
>
>> Dear Theo,
>>
>>> Don't we do enough?
>>
>> You already do too much.
>
> I have long held the opinion that Theo is probably the best coder on this
planet. That’s not any sort of ass-kissing, either, it’s my objective,
unbiased opinion. And I know Henning personally, as in “live and worked
together with him" - one hell of an expert.
>
> However, the dilemma that the project has found itself in now very clearly
demonstrates that Theo is not a businessman and that there isn’t any other
businessman at the helm, either. Imagining that people will suddenly start to
pay for something that they have constantly been getting for free is absurd -
their belief is that somebody else will surely step up first or somebody will
fork in the name of fame. No business on this planet is going to allocate
budget to paying OpenBSD’s electricity bills, let alone anything else, without
1) a detailed itemisation of the electrical bills, 2) a detailed justification
of said line items, and 3) a satisfaction of their own business interest. It’s
just not sexy for a philanthropist to support a relatively unheard of
operating system when cancer is still left uncured.
>
> It’s not good to be removing coders from their tasks; the project needs a
businessman or two. One who will handle the corporate feature requests and
charge dearly for them. Things like routing technology and high-speed packet
forwarding - things that can replace the exorbitant costs of maintaining cisco
routers. This is the key. With the FBSD 10GB wire speed packet forwarding
incorporated, OpenBSD would be ready to challenge Cisco in a very serious way.
Completely free as always, but with paid support for this edge cases that make
life what it is.
>
> Thanks Theo, Henning, and all of the rest of you.
>
>
> -mike
>

Hello

I am not an expert in computers; but administrator; and i think that the
previous view point is very logic.

Building OpenBSD is an investment (no direct retribution), and the
project is in need of something that give back or retributed the investment.

The key, are the services; hosting, virtualization, etc. Remember that
OpenBSD has been considered only for experts, and there are many no
experts who would like to use OpenBSD.

The other thing that could be applied is writing a manual (description
of how to do every thing on OpenBSD; we have very good documentation),
that could be sold every 6 month; writing the manual should be easy;
every 6 month, the changes are few things.

The other idea, is Members, every one of us could give five dollars per
month to keep the privilege of using OpenBSD; receiving information,
participating in the list, etc.

OK, it has been written with the idea of help in mind. I am thankful for
your effort.

Thanks

agrquinonez.

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Kevin Chadwick-2
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
On Tue, 14 Jan 2014 17:28:19 -0700 (MST)
Theo de Raadt wrote:

> That's a great idea.
>
> I'm going drag a subgroup of the developers away from software
> development and we'll start working on that instead.
>
> Right away.
>
> To fund the drilling, we'll hold a bake sale.

Fair enough just thought the Canadian weather was ideal for it but yeah
even shallow thermal piles are quite expensive and the DIY
peltier options would take time and all methods some research.

If someones thinking of launching a crowd funding site, it might
add a carbon reduction element to the funding plea though.

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Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

Kevin Chadwick-2
In reply to this post by agrquinonez
previously on this list agrquinonez contributed:

> The other idea, is Members, every one of us could give five dollars per
> month to keep the privilege of using OpenBSD; receiving information,
> participating in the list, etc.

I think that would strangle the project and possibly prevent future
donater's becoming involved and passionate. I would guess OpenBSD has a
far higher percentage of users that donate or buy than debian but less
corporate backing.

--
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'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)

In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
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