Re: New laptop recommendations

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Re: New laptop recommendations

rgilaard (Bugzilla)
 I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell laptops because they come pre-configured with Ubuntu and therefore I assume they will be opensource friendly. I have short listed:1. Dell Precision 7520 ($1502)2. Dell Precision 7720 ($1412)3. Dell Precision 3520 ($1352)
Prices are based on my hardware choices so ymmv.
With kind regards,Robert
    On Tuesday, 19 June 2018, 12:39:03 CEST, Rupert Gallagher <[hidden email]> wrote:  
 
 I'm done with my 10 years old 1200EUR MacBookPro. It served me well, every day, but is now falling apart, finally.

I would buy a new one if only Steve Jobs would be alive and keeping Apple inspired. The new models are meticulously designed to make you suffer: expensive, slow cpu, soldered ram, soldered disk, small disk, bad keyboard keys, wifi only, must pay extra for standard connectors.

I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?
 
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Re: New laptop recommendations

Marco van Hulten
Robert,

On 25 Jun 22:01 Robert Gilaard wrote:
> I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell
> laptops because they come pre-configured with Ubuntu and therefore I
> assume they will be opensource friendly.

It could be fine, but I would not just assume this.  The pre-configured
Ubuntu may contain proprietary drivers, which you may not want to use,
and are not included in OpenBSD.

> I have short listed:1. Dell
> Precision 7520 ($1502)2. Dell Precision 7720 ($1412)3. Dell Precision
> 3520 ($1352) Prices are based on my hardware choices so ymmv.

I have a Dell Latitude E7470, which had serveral power management
related issues in spring last year (e.g. hanging when waking up from
suspend).  The worst of these issues disappeared because OpenBSD and
Ubuntu (also installed as it is officially provided by my employer) got
support for the hardware over the summer of 2017.  There is still the
issue of an OpenBSD segfault when I attach/detach the laptop to/from my
docking station.

In retrospect, I wish I took the similarly spec'ed Lenovo Thinkpad that
my employer also offered, because Thinkpads are said to be "opensource
friendly" (but that may be just as well be wishful thinking).

Marco

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Re: New laptop recommendations

Jeffrey Joshua Rollin
ThinkPads use devices for which there are open source devices for everything, as far as I know. Still, hardware support in the BSDs lags Linux to varying degrees, because of slower hardware. (My 2015 E550, for example, still lacked full video support in FreeBSD RELEASE,  last time I looked.

In my experience, hardware support is actually better in OpenBSD than FreeBSD.

Jeff

⁣Sent from Blue ​

On 26 Jun 2018, 09:07, at 09:07, Marco van Hulten <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Robert,
>
>On 25 Jun 22:01 Robert Gilaard wrote:
>> I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell
>> laptops because they come pre-configured with Ubuntu and therefore I
>> assume they will be opensource friendly.
>
>It could be fine, but I would not just assume this.  The pre-configured
>Ubuntu may contain proprietary drivers, which you may not want to use,
>and are not included in OpenBSD.
>
>> I have short listed:1. Dell
>> Precision 7520 ($1502)2. Dell Precision 7720 ($1412)3. Dell Precision
>> 3520 ($1352) Prices are based on my hardware choices so ymmv.
>
>I have a Dell Latitude E7470, which had serveral power management
>related issues in spring last year (e.g. hanging when waking up from
>suspend).  The worst of these issues disappeared because OpenBSD and
>Ubuntu (also installed as it is officially provided by my employer) got
>support for the hardware over the summer of 2017.  There is still the
>issue of an OpenBSD segfault when I attach/detach the laptop to/from my
>docking station.
>
>In retrospect, I wish I took the similarly spec'ed Lenovo Thinkpad that
>my employer also offered, because Thinkpads are said to be "opensource
>friendly" (but that may be just as well be wishful thinking).
>
>Marco
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Re: New laptop recommendations

Stuart Longland
In reply to this post by Marco van Hulten
On 26/06/18 18:03, Marco van Hulten wrote:
> In retrospect, I wish I took the similarly spec'ed Lenovo Thinkpad that
> my employer also offered, because Thinkpads are said to be "opensource
> friendly" (but that may be just as well be wishful thinking).

The IBM Thinkpads… sure, they worked well.  The Lenovo ones?  Looking at
the ones around the office, they've been a bit hit-and-miss, on both
Linux and their out-of-the-box Windows installs.

I can't comment on their reliability on OpenBSD however as I think I'm
the only one in my office that uses it at all, and I tend to reserve it
for servers and routers which is an area which OpenBSD excels at.
--
Stuart Longland (aka Redhatter, VK4MSL)

I haven't lost my mind...
  ...it's backed up on a tape somewhere.

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Re: New laptop recommendations

Selveste1
Generally the Lenovo laptops works really well, nothing beats the IBM
days, but I have at the moment around 90 or so X1 Carbon's out in the
field in various generations from generation 2 all the way to latest 6th
gen., never had problems with the Linux support or stability of the
laptops.

Can't say for *BSD reliability, since I'm the only one use *BSD and both
my T430 and T450 works well, while my P51 is having problems with the
Nvidia/Intel combo. But if I disable the Nvidia card in BIOS it works
okay after a bit of fitteling - but this also goes for Debian GNU/Linux
and even Windows sometimes have problems with the switch.

But none of the laptops mentioned are cheap, so don't know if that
disqualifies this information.

Med Venlig Hilsen / Best Regards
Henrik Dige Semark

On 26-06-2018 10:50, Stuart Longland wrote:

> On 26/06/18 18:03, Marco van Hulten wrote:
>> In retrospect, I wish I took the similarly spec'ed Lenovo Thinkpad that
>> my employer also offered, because Thinkpads are said to be "opensource
>> friendly" (but that may be just as well be wishful thinking).
> The IBM Thinkpads… sure, they worked well.  The Lenovo ones?  Looking at
> the ones around the office, they've been a bit hit-and-miss, on both
> Linux and their out-of-the-box Windows installs.
>
> I can't comment on their reliability on OpenBSD however as I think I'm
> the only one in my office that uses it at all, and I tend to reserve it
> for servers and routers which is an area which OpenBSD excels at.


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Re: New laptop recommendations

lists-2
In reply to this post by rgilaard (Bugzilla)
Mon, 25 Jun 2018 22:01:42 +0000 (UTC) Robert Gilaard <[hidden email]>
>  I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell

Hi Robert, Rupert,

Email coming from Yahoo is flagged as phishing scam, wastes time digging.

This is unacceptable advice, something very wrong with the advertisement.
Search for string "Dell", the company is "in difficulties":  Compromised.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_TAO_product_catalog

Also search for the string "implant", and ask dmesg from an OpenBSD user.
Or a developer who actually uses the hardware and invests effort it runs.

> laptops because they come pre-configured with Ubuntu and therefore I
> assume they will be opensource friendly.

Assumptions & presumptions are examples, of superstitious mind abduction.
Common misconception, corporate operating system not a free nor open one.

Tue, 19 Jun 2018 06:37:18 -0400 Rupert Gallagher <[hidden email]>
> I have 1500EUR for a new laptop. What would you buy with it?

Your other threads on server boards and systems make much more sense now.
You must however ask around more for long term production use of systems.

Search the archives and read carefully advice comes mostly free and open.

Kind regards,
Anton Lazarov

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Re: New laptop recommendations

Rupert Gallagher
What crap is this?

On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 20:53, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Your other threads on server boards and systems make much more sense now.

You are off topic, and have no fucking clue of what you are talking about.
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Re: New laptop recommendations

Riccardo Mottola
In reply to this post by Stuart Longland
Hi,

Stuart Longland wrote:
> The IBM Thinkpads… sure, they worked well.  The Lenovo ones?  Looking at
> the ones around the office, they've been a bit hit-and-miss, on both
> Linux and their out-of-the-box Windows installs.

that is true... the latest IBM heritage you can get is the T43, although
already manufactured by Lenovo.
Wonderful chassis, incredible hinges... and I have one running Ubuntu,
une NetBSD.
I run OpenBSD on a T60 with the hi-res screen and while it works very
well as far as hardware supports, the chassis quality is already lesser.

The bigger cousin, the T61 I have, already has nvidia and that is a
nightmare: I couldn't get it useful on neither OpenBSD nor NetBSD so it
is my FreeBSD tinker machine now, where I have to use the proprietary
drivers (the opensources ones are available, but not up to it)

then from there it goes up and down...


>
> I can't comment on their reliability on OpenBSD however as I think I'm
> the only one in my office that uses it at all, and I tend to reserve it
> for servers and routers which is an area which OpenBSD excels at.

I try to use my BSD boxen for every day use, although I always have a
Windows machine at hand for the "stupid" work.
I use X11 program on it and browse and use mail.

One thing I never tried on any BSD since a long time is the use of a
webcam: the only thing I use is Skype and it is quite hopeless.

The OP asked for a MacBook Pro replacement: since the value of a Mac for
me is now mostly MacOS (oh, sorry macOS....)
With OpenBSD many alterantives are interesting: besides the cited ThinkPads

I have tried OpenBSD on a discarded hp ProBook 4530s... I need to use
intel graphics instead of the Radeon, but it works very well. It used
not too, but 6.2 and 6.3 brought an incredible improvement: sleep works,
wireless, correct display brightness: quick and responsive! The machine
has a very decent keyboard too and the i5 is fine also for development
and browsing (except the classic browser issues on FOSS). If you can get
one for cheap, recommended: but it is a big beast.

Riccardo

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Re: New laptop recommendations

Daniel Corbe
In reply to this post by lists-2
at 2:53 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Mon, 25 Jun 2018 22:01:42 +0000 (UTC) Robert Gilaard <[hidden email]>
>> I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell
>
> Hi Robert, Rupert,
>
> Email coming from Yahoo is flagged as phishing scam, wastes time digging.
>
>  **This is unacceptable advice**

Emphasis mine.  Let’s not admonish people over the providers they use just  
because your mailer is misconfigured.  After all, I don’t have this issue.


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Re: New laptop recommendations

lists-2
In reply to this post by Rupert Gallagher
Tue, 26 Jun 2018 15:47:31 -0400 Rupert Gallagher <[hidden email]>
> What crap is this?

YOURS.  What you put into a system is what you get from the same system..

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Re: New laptop recommendations

Dumitru Moldovan
In reply to this post by Marco van Hulten
On 06/26/18 11:03, Marco van Hulten wrote:

> Robert,
>
> On 25 Jun 22:01 Robert Gilaard wrote:
>> I am just researching this as well and have settled on the Dell
>> laptops because they come pre-configured with Ubuntu and therefore I
>> assume they will be opensource friendly.
>
> It could be fine, but I would not just assume this.  The pre-configured
> Ubuntu may contain proprietary drivers, which you may not want to use,
> and are not included in OpenBSD.
There are no proprietary drivers included in Ubuntu by default, as best
as I can remember.  There are two things that may lead you to believe that:

   1. You can install proprietary drivers easily, if needed.  There's
even an option in the system settings menu: "Additional Drivers".

   2. Contrary to Debian, from which it is derived, Ubuntu installation
disks include binary "blobs", closed-source firmware needed by some
hardware such as network cards.  With Debian you are expected to copy
the needed firmware to an additional floppy disk or USB drive, to be
manually picked during installation.

AFAIK some Dell Inspirons of "Ubuntu version" vintage come with a
discrete Nvidia GPU in addition to the Intel one, but even those are
shipped with the open-source drivers and it's up to the user to setup
Bumblebee to support Nvidia Optimus.

Would like to hear if things changed though!


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