Quad ethernet card

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Quad ethernet card

Fredrik Carlsson
Hi,

I'm planing to set up a new firewall and have a few questions about what
quad ethernet cards people recommend?
The server will probably be a Dell PE860 (they seem to be well supported
by OpenBSD), but what quad cards should i buy? what cards have good
performance?

Best regards
Fredrik Carlsson

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Re: Quad ethernet card

fuzzyping
On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:26:19 +0200, Fredrik Carlsson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm planing to set up a new firewall and have a few questions about what
> quad ethernet cards people recommend?
> The server will probably be a Dell PE860 (they seem to be well supported
> by OpenBSD), but what quad cards should i buy? what cards have good
> performance?

Do you really need a quad card?  See the archives for similar threads and using vlan(4) instead.

--
Jason Dixon
DixonGroup Consulting
http://www.dixongroup.net

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Re: Quad ethernet card

Fredrik Carlsson
Jason Dixon wrote:

> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:26:19 +0200, Fredrik Carlsson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm planing to set up a new firewall and have a few questions about what
>> quad ethernet cards people recommend?
>> The server will probably be a Dell PE860 (they seem to be well supported
>> by OpenBSD), but what quad cards should i buy? what cards have good
>> performance?
>>    
>
> Do you really need a quad card?  See the archives for similar threads and using vlan(4) instead.
>
>  
Hi,

Thanks for the reply,

Yes I will need a quad card for different reasons, I already use vlan today.

Intel has a quad card that looks interesting, its quite expensive so it
would be nice to now what the performance is ;)

Intel PRO/1000GT Quad PCI-X Adapter (PWLA8494GT)


// Fredrik

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Re: Quad ethernet card

Jeroen Massar
In reply to this post by Fredrik Carlsson
Fredrik Carlsson wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm planing to set up a new firewall and have a few questions about what
> quad ethernet cards people recommend?
> The server will probably be a Dell PE860 (they seem to be well supported
> by OpenBSD), but what quad cards should i buy? what cards have good
> performance?

4 NE2000's will do fine in any machine. Kidding ;)

What link speeds do you want to handle with the setup, and more
importantly, what is the expected traffic mix? Are you going to expect
a high pps rate, do you require low latency? Also, what is your budget?

Greets,
 Jeroen

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]

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Re: Quad ethernet card

Daniel Polak
In reply to this post by Fredrik Carlsson
==== Original message from Fredrik Carlsson at 5-6-2007 18:26
> I'm planing to set up a new firewall and have a few questions about
> what quad ethernet cards people recommend?
> The server will probably be a Dell PE860 (they seem to be well
> supported by OpenBSD), but what quad cards should i buy? what cards
> have good performance?
The Intel quad port card (PWLA8494GT) is supported well by OpenBSD but
it is rather expensive.

Daniel

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Re: Quad ethernet card

Fredrik Carlsson
In reply to this post by Jeroen Massar
Jeroen Massar wrote:

> Fredrik Carlsson wrote:
>  
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm planing to set up a new firewall and have a few questions about what
>> quad ethernet cards people recommend?
>> The server will probably be a Dell PE860 (they seem to be well supported
>> by OpenBSD), but what quad cards should i buy? what cards have good
>> performance?
>>    
>
> 4 NE2000's will do fine in any machine. Kidding ;)
>
> What link speeds do you want to handle with the setup, and more
> importantly, what is the expected traffic mix? Are you going to expect
> a high pps rate, do you require low latency? Also, what is your budget?
>
> Greets,
>  Jeroen
>
>  
A mix of all that ;)

It's in the startup phase  so I can't provide that much info yet, but
there will be a lot of machines and we will be routing much traffic
internally and to Internet. The budget is quite important, so if there
is a cheaper card than the Intel that will perform well i would be glad :)

// Fredrik

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Re: Quad ethernet card

nate-31
In reply to this post by Fredrik Carlsson
Fredrik Carlsson wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm planing to set up a new firewall and have a few questions about what
> quad ethernet cards people recommend?
> The server will probably be a Dell PE860 (they seem to be well supported
> by OpenBSD), but what quad cards should i buy? what cards have good
> performance?

While I was personally somewhat disapointed with the performance it was
still pretty fast, the Intel Pro 1000 GT quad port:

http://www.intel.com/network/connectivity/products/pro1000gt_quadport_server_adapter.htm

I built 3 OpenBSD 3.6(?) servers in mid 2005 with these cards, and
was able to get a peak throughput of about 520Mbps in bridged mode
(pf disabled) measured using iperf. Interrupt cpu time was ~30%,
the rest of the cpu was idle. CPU was I think single proc Xeon
3.6Ghz(dual proc supermicro motherboard for multiple PCI-X busses
and stuff). I expected to be able to peg the CPU, but no matter
how hard I hit it, it wouldn't go higher than ~30%.

All in all the systems had 8 Intel GigE ports, a dual port PCI-X,
a quad port PCI-X, and two onboard. It didn't matter what config
I used, if the bridge was on one card or more than one, if it was
going across one IRQ or two, the system wouldn't go higher than
~520Mbps. I was hoping to be able to get at least 1Gbps, if not
2Gbps. (the firewalls had two bridges serving different network
segments). Redundancy was provided by OSPF on the switches.

The systems were connected to fairly hefty Extreme Black Diamond
10808s, when I removed the bridge and just connected the switch
back to itself(layer 3 virtual switching), throughput went up to
around 900Mbps (I think I hit a limitation on the servers I
was testing with at that point).

I sent a few posts to the list back at the time, probably May-June
2005, I don't work at that company anymore so I don't recall
exact specifics on everything.

nate

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Re: Quad ethernet card

Bryan Vyhmeister-2
In reply to this post by Fredrik Carlsson
On Jun 5, 2007, at 11:10 AM, Fredrik Carlsson wrote:

> A mix of all that ;)
>
> It's in the startup phase  so I can't provide that much info yet,  
> but there will be a lot of machines and we will be routing much  
> traffic internally and to Internet. The budget is quite important,  
> so if there is a cheaper card than the Intel that will perform well  
> i would be glad :)

This may not perform as well, but I know Soekris Engineering makes  
the lan1641:

http://www.soekris.com/lan16x1.htm

You may be able to get it through kd85.com. I often get Intel cards  
on eBay as well. That's not always the best option but sometimes it  
works well.

Bryan

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Re: Quad ethernet card

Darth Lists
In reply to this post by Daniel Polak
Daniel Polak wrote:

> ==== Original message from Fredrik Carlsson at 5-6-2007 18:26
>> I'm planing to set up a new firewall and have a few questions about
>> what quad ethernet cards people recommend?
>> The server will probably be a Dell PE860 (they seem to be well
>> supported by OpenBSD), but what quad cards should i buy? what cards
>> have good performance?
> The Intel quad port card (PWLA8494GT) is supported well by OpenBSD but
> it is rather expensive.
>
> Daniel
>
If you have not yet acquired the server, might I suggest an iBASE
FWA-9106 or similar?
It has 6 gig-E ports, on-board CF card slot, PATA and SATA, and 4 DDR400
memory slots.

Ethernet port-related dmesg porn:
*****mks0*****
ppb0 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 "Intel 82801FB PCIE" rev 0x03
pci1 at ppb0 bus 1
mskc0 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 "Marvell Yukon 88E8053" rev 0x19, Yukon-2
EC rev. A3 (0x2): irq 12
msk0 at mskc0 port A, address 00:03:2d:xx:xx:xx
eephy0 at msk0 phy 0: Marvell 88E1111 Gigabit PHY, rev. 2
*****mks1*****
ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 1 "Intel 82801FB PCIE" rev 0x03
pci2 at ppb1 bus 2
mskc1 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 "Marvell Yukon 88E8053" rev 0x19, Yukon-2
EC rev. A3 (0x2): irq 15
msk1 at mskc1 port A, address 00:03:2d:xx:xx:xx
eephy1 at msk1 phy 0: Marvell 88E1111 Gigabit PHY, rev. 2
*****mks2*****
ppb2 at pci0 dev 28 function 2 "Intel 82801FB PCIE" rev 0x03
pci3 at ppb2 bus 3
mskc2 at pci3 dev 0 function 0 "Marvell Yukon 88E8053" rev 0x19, Yukon-2
EC rev. A3 (0x2): irq 15
msk2 at mskc2 port A, address 00:03:2d:xx:xx:xx
eephy2 at msk2 phy 0: Marvell 88E1111 Gigabit PHY, rev. 2
*****mks3*****
ppb3 at pci0 dev 28 function 3 "Intel 82801FB PCIE" rev 0x03
pci4 at ppb3 bus 4
mskc3 at pci4 dev 0 function 0 "Marvell Yukon 88E8053" rev 0x19, Yukon-2
EC rev. A3 (0x2): irq 9
msk3 at mskc3 port A, address 00:03:2d:xx:xx:xx
eephy3 at msk3 phy 0: Marvell 88E1111 Gigabit PHY, rev. 2
*****em0*****
em0 at pci5 dev 0 function 0 "Intel PRO/1000MT (82541GI)" rev 0x05: irq
10, address 00:03:2d:xx:xx:xx
*****em1*****
em1 at pci5 dev 1 function 0 "Intel PRO/1000MT (82541GI)" rev 0x05: irq
11, address 00:03:2d:xx:xx:xx


It comes in a half-depth 1U case with 2 PCI expansion slots.
I am running mine off a CF card with flashboot.

Here is the spec on the FWA9106 appliance:
http://www.ibasetechnology.net/fwa9106.html

And here is the detailed spec of the motherboard inside:
http://www.ibasetechnology.net/Datasheet/MB893.pdf

It takes an LGA775 915GV chipset cpu and regular DDR400 ram.

/Jason

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Re: Quad ethernet card

Robert Franklin-2
In reply to this post by Fredrik Carlsson
Why not a qfe card from Sun? I've used a quad port Sun PCI card for at
least a few years in both me Sun AXI servers, and currently I have one
installed in a dell 1550 that works just fine. You can find the Sun
quad cards for really cheap off of ebay. I think I picked mine up for
around $40 USD.



On 6/5/07, Fredrik Carlsson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm planing to set up a new firewall and have a few questions about what
> quad ethernet cards people recommend?
> The server will probably be a Dell PE860 (they seem to be well supported
> by OpenBSD), but what quad cards should i buy? what cards have good
> performance?
>
> Best regards
> Fredrik Carlsson

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Re: Quad ethernet card

L. V. Lammert
On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, Robert Franklin wrote:

> Why not a qfe card from Sun? I've used a quad port Sun PCI card for at
> least a few years in both me Sun AXI servers, and currently I have one
> installed in a dell 1550 that works just fine. You can find the Sun
> quad cards for really cheap off of ebay. I think I picked mine up for
> around $40 USD.
>
Two problems with that:

> qfe is REALLY old
> qfe is for Sparc, .. might not work on Intel (like the Dell)

Might be worth trying, but don't count on it working.

        Lee

================================================
  Leland V. Lammert            [hidden email]
    Chief Scientist     Omnitec Corporation
 Network/Internet Consultants   www.omnitec.net
================================================

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Re: Quad ethernet card

Claudio Jeker
On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 06:10:08PM -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote:

> On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, Robert Franklin wrote:
>
> > Why not a qfe card from Sun? I've used a quad port Sun PCI card for at
> > least a few years in both me Sun AXI servers, and currently I have one
> > installed in a dell 1550 that works just fine. You can find the Sun
> > quad cards for really cheap off of ebay. I think I picked mine up for
> > around $40 USD.
> >
> Two problems with that:
>
> > qfe is REALLY old
> > qfe is for Sparc, .. might not work on Intel (like the Dell)
>
> Might be worth trying, but don't count on it working.
>

I think Robert Franklin was talking about quad hme(4) based PCI cards.
Those cards are Fast-Ethernet only and so a quad em(4) will outperform
them easily. Even some of the rare quad fxp(4) may be better but I would
prefer them over the quad sis(4) ones sold by soekris.

--
:wq Claudio

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Re: Quad ethernet card

Stuart Henderson
In reply to this post by L. V. Lammert
On 2007/06/05 18:10, L. V. Lammert wrote:

> On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, Robert Franklin wrote:
>
> > Why not a qfe card from Sun? I've used a quad port Sun PCI card for at
> > least a few years in both me Sun AXI servers, and currently I have one
> > installed in a dell 1550 that works just fine. You can find the Sun
> > quad cards for really cheap off of ebay. I think I picked mine up for
> > around $40 USD.
> >
> Two problems with that:
>
> > qfe is REALLY old
> > qfe is for Sparc, .. might not work on Intel (like the Dell)
>
> Might be worth trying, but don't count on it working.

I'm pretty sure hme(4) work ok on i386. Also on the cheaper side,
znyx (e.g. netapp pulls; *full* length cards) and dfe570tx turn up
at times.

I've had mixed results with Intel quads, ranging from boxes refusing
to POST (on the older ones) and ports not showing up, to corrupted input
packets (GT on a certain motherboard using 64/133), to working absolutely
fine...depends a lot on the motherboard I think.

fwiw I found that RJ45 plugs lock into place much better on the newer
ones (GT) rather than the older ones (ports are inverted).

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Re: Quad ethernet card

Todd Alan Smith-3
In reply to this post by Claudio Jeker
On 6/5/07, Claudio Jeker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 06:10:08PM -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> > On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, Robert Franklin wrote:
> >
> > > Why not a qfe card from Sun? I've used a quad port Sun PCI card for at
> > > least a few years in both me Sun AXI servers, and currently I have one
> > > installed in a dell 1550 that works just fine. You can find the Sun
> > > quad cards for really cheap off of ebay. I think I picked mine up for
> > > around $40 USD.
> > >
> > Two problems with that:
> >
> > > qfe is REALLY old
> > > qfe is for Sparc, .. might not work on Intel (like the Dell)
> >
> > Might be worth trying, but don't count on it working.
> >
>
> I think Robert Franklin was talking about quad hme(4) based PCI cards.
> Those cards are Fast-Ethernet only and so a quad em(4) will outperform
> them easily. Even some of the rare quad fxp(4) may be better but I would
> prefer them over the quad sis(4) ones sold by soekris.

What's the problem with the Soekris quad cards? You have me worried,
as I just bought two of them. (I haven't employed them yet.)

Todd

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Re: Quad ethernet card

Claudio Jeker
On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 09:49:05PM -0500, Todd Alan Smith wrote:

> On 6/5/07, Claudio Jeker <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 06:10:08PM -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> >> On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, Robert Franklin wrote:
> >>
> >> > Why not a qfe card from Sun? I've used a quad port Sun PCI card for at
> >> > least a few years in both me Sun AXI servers, and currently I have one
> >> > installed in a dell 1550 that works just fine. You can find the Sun
> >> > quad cards for really cheap off of ebay. I think I picked mine up for
> >> > around $40 USD.
> >> >
> >> Two problems with that:
> >>
> >> > qfe is REALLY old
> >> > qfe is for Sparc, .. might not work on Intel (like the Dell)
> >>
> >> Might be worth trying, but don't count on it working.
> >>
> >
> >I think Robert Franklin was talking about quad hme(4) based PCI cards.
> >Those cards are Fast-Ethernet only and so a quad em(4) will outperform
> >them easily. Even some of the rare quad fxp(4) may be better but I would
> >prefer them over the quad sis(4) ones sold by soekris.
>
> What's the problem with the Soekris quad cards? You have me worried,
> as I just bought two of them. (I haven't employed them yet.)
>

Sis(4) is plaing in the same league as rl(4). It works fine and I never
had porblems with it but I would never use it in a router with high
performance needs.

--
:wq Claudio

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Re: Quad ethernet card

Marc Balmer-2
In reply to this post by Stuart Henderson
* Stuart Henderson wrote:

> On 2007/06/05 18:10, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> > On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, Robert Franklin wrote:
> >
> > > Why not a qfe card from Sun? I've used a quad port Sun PCI card for at
> > > least a few years in both me Sun AXI servers, and currently I have one
> > > installed in a dell 1550 that works just fine. You can find the Sun
> > > quad cards for really cheap off of ebay. I think I picked mine up for
> > > around $40 USD.
> > >
> > Two problems with that:
> >
> > > qfe is REALLY old
> > > qfe is for Sparc, .. might not work on Intel (like the Dell)
> >
> > Might be worth trying, but don't count on it working.
>
> I'm pretty sure hme(4) work ok on i386. Also on the cheaper side,
> znyx (e.g. netapp pulls; *full* length cards) and dfe570tx turn up
> at times.

they do.  I have a sun quad hme(4) pci card in an intel box.

>
> I've had mixed results with Intel quads, ranging from boxes refusing
> to POST (on the older ones) and ports not showing up, to corrupted input
> packets (GT on a certain motherboard using 64/133), to working absolutely
> fine...depends a lot on the motherboard I think.
>
> fwiw I found that RJ45 plugs lock into place much better on the newer
> ones (GT) rather than the older ones (ports are inverted).

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Re: Quad ethernet card

Henning Brauer
In reply to this post by Fredrik Carlsson
* Fredrik Carlsson <[hidden email]> [2007-06-05 21:04]:

> Jason Dixon wrote:
> >On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:26:19 +0200, Fredrik Carlsson <[hidden email]>
> >wrote:
> >  
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>I'm planing to set up a new firewall and have a few questions about what
> >>quad ethernet cards people recommend?
> >>The server will probably be a Dell PE860 (they seem to be well supported
> >>by OpenBSD), but what quad cards should i buy? what cards have good
> >>performance?
> >>    
> >
> >Do you really need a quad card?  See the archives for similar threads and
> >using vlan(4) instead.
> >
> >  
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the reply,
>
> Yes I will need a quad card for different reasons, I already use vlan today.
>
> Intel has a quad card that looks interesting, its quite expensive so it
> would be nice to now what the performance is ;)
>
> Intel PRO/1000GT Quad PCI-X Adapter (PWLA8494GT)

werks fine.

--
Henning Brauer, [hidden email], [hidden email]
BS Web Services, http://bsws.de
Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services
Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting - Hamburg & Amsterdam

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Re: Quad ethernet card

Henning Brauer
In reply to this post by nate-31
* nate <[hidden email]> [2007-06-05 21:44]:
> I built 3 OpenBSD 3.6(?) servers in mid 2005 with these cards, and
> was able to get a peak throughput of about 520Mbps in bridged mode
> (pf disabled) measured using iperf.

the single-stream tcp test iperf uses is pretty meaningless
(unless.. well, that's another story)

> Interrupt cpu time was ~30%, the rest of the cpu was idle.

see... you don't actually test the system

--
Henning Brauer, [hidden email], [hidden email]
BS Web Services, http://bsws.de
Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services
Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting - Hamburg & Amsterdam

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Re: Quad ethernet card

Ronnie Garcia
Henning Brauer a icrit :
> * nate <[hidden email]> [2007-06-05 21:44]:
>> I built 3 OpenBSD 3.6(?) servers in mid 2005 with these cards, and
>> was able to get a peak throughput of about 520Mbps in bridged mode
>> (pf disabled) measured using iperf.
>
> the single-stream tcp test iperf uses is pretty meaningless
> (unless.. well, that's another story)

What other tool would you recommend, then ? The idea is to simulate
legit Internet traffic and/or DDoS traffic.

--
Ronnie Garcia <r.garcia at ovea dot com>

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Re: Quad ethernet card

Henning Brauer
* Ronnie Garcia <[hidden email]> [2007-06-06 13:04]:

> Henning Brauer a icrit :
> >* nate <[hidden email]> [2007-06-05 21:44]:
> >>I built 3 OpenBSD 3.6(?) servers in mid 2005 with these cards, and
> >>was able to get a peak throughput of about 520Mbps in bridged mode
> >>(pf disabled) measured using iperf.
> >
> >the single-stream tcp test iperf uses is pretty meaningless
> >(unless.. well, that's another story)
>
> What other tool would you recommend, then ?

they all suck.

best "simulation" is recording your real-world traffic using tcpdump and
then use tcpreplay. but that is tricky too.

--
Henning Brauer, [hidden email], [hidden email]
BS Web Services, http://bsws.de
Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services
Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting - Hamburg & Amsterdam

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