Ports tree locked for 6.5 release

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Ports tree locked for 6.5 release

Christian Weisgerber
The t2k19 hackathon has concluded and the ports tree is now locked
for the 6.5 release.  Important(!) fixes are still possible for a
brief period.  Committers need to ask sthen@ or me for approval.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          [hidden email]

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Re: Ports tree locked for 6.5 release

Edward Lopez-Acosta
Could you please explain the logic behind this as I am confused. Is this
due to an inefficient process, technical limitation, or other reason
(lack of manpower doesn't qualify as that seems self inflicted by the
project)? Are you somehow tracking submissions to take care of when this
unlocked so people don't waste their time needing to resubmit them?

While they may exist I know of no other project, including OS, that halt
development like this for long, if at all, to do a release. Again, they
may exist I just don't know of any and find the process awkward and
confusing.

> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2019 15:58:06 +0200
> From: Christian Weisgerber <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Ports tree locked for 6.5 release
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>
> The t2k19 hackathon has concluded and the ports tree is now locked
> for the 6.5 release.  Important(!) fixes are still possible for a
> brief period.  Committers need to ask sthen@ or me for approval.
>
> --
> Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          [hidden email]


--
Edward Lopez-Acosta

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Re: Ports tree locked for 6.5 release

Theo de Raadt-2
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
>Could you please explain the logic behind this as I am confused. Is this
>due to an inefficient process, technical limitation, or other reason
>(lack of manpower doesn't qualify as that seems self inflicted by the
>project)? Are you somehow tracking submissions to take care of when this
>unlocked so people don't waste their time needing to resubmit them?

Our process.  *OUR* process.  This is not your process.  Meaning it
isn't your decision.

>While they may exist I know of no other project, including OS, that halt
>development like this for long, if at all, to do a release. Again, they
>may exist I just don't know of any and find the process awkward and
>confusing.

Other projects split their developers between "making the release" and
"working on the future", and as a result they take a long time to make
crappier releases.

That's their choice.

It is not our choice.

It is *NOT YOUR CHOICE*, and you don't have standing to comment.

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Re: Ports tree locked for 6.5 release

Edward Lopez-Acosta
You are correct its not my process, but I am still curious as to the
rationale which is just a question that was not answered. Nowhere did I
suggest, or imply, that it should be changed.

And how do you define crappier releases? If something is stable enough
that the development team decide to mark a release that is up to them,
not you which is similar to what you noted about this being *your*
process, that is *theirs*.

Edward Lopez-Acosta

On 4/5/19 7:08 AM, Theo de Raadt wrote:

>> Could you please explain the logic behind this as I am confused. Is this
>> due to an inefficient process, technical limitation, or other reason
>> (lack of manpower doesn't qualify as that seems self inflicted by the
>> project)? Are you somehow tracking submissions to take care of when this
>> unlocked so people don't waste their time needing to resubmit them?
>
> Our process.  *OUR* process.  This is not your process.  Meaning it
> isn't your decision.
>
>> While they may exist I know of no other project, including OS, that halt
>> development like this for long, if at all, to do a release. Again, they
>> may exist I just don't know of any and find the process awkward and
>> confusing.
>
> Other projects split their developers between "making the release" and
> "working on the future", and as a result they take a long time to make
> crappier releases.
>
> That's their choice.
>
> It is not our choice.
>
> It is *NOT YOUR CHOICE*, and you don't have standing to comment.
>

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Re: Ports tree locked for 6.5 release

Theo de Raadt-2
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
>You are correct its not my process, but I am still curious as to the
>rationale which is just a question that was not answered. Nowhere did I
>suggest, or imply, that it should be changed.
>
>And how do you define crappier releases? If something is stable enough
>that the development team decide to mark a release that is up to them,
>not you which is similar to what you noted about this being *your*
>process, that is *theirs*.

Wow you sure are opinionated.

We as a team make releases every 6 months like clockwork.

Anything else is none of your business.  Your line of commentary is
showing a distinct lack of respect, and I kindly propose you get
stuffed.

>Edward Lopez-Acosta
>
>On 4/5/19 7:08 AM, Theo de Raadt wrote:
>>> Could you please explain the logic behind this as I am confused. Is this
>>> due to an inefficient process, technical limitation, or other reason
>>> (lack of manpower doesn't qualify as that seems self inflicted by the
>>> project)? Are you somehow tracking submissions to take care of when this
>>> unlocked so people don't waste their time needing to resubmit them?
>>
>> Our process.  *OUR* process.  This is not your process.  Meaning it
>> isn't your decision.
>>
>>> While they may exist I know of no other project, including OS, that halt
>>> development like this for long, if at all, to do a release. Again, they
>>> may exist I just don't know of any and find the process awkward and
>>> confusing.
>>
>> Other projects split their developers between "making the release" and
>> "working on the future", and as a result they take a long time to make
>> crappier releases.
>>
>> That's their choice.
>>
>> It is not our choice.
>>
>> It is *NOT YOUR CHOICE*, and you don't have standing to comment.
>>
>

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Re: Ports tree locked for 6.5 release

Edward Lopez-Acosta
Do you have documentation on this process? I would be happy to read it
and ask questions you feel may be better. As an open source project I am
surprised about the lack of transparency for various things.

I have opinions yes, but I also try to understand those of others which
is what prompted the questions. Not sure how asking questions to better
understand of a process/project is disrespectful if you could clarify
that would be great.

Edward Lopez-Acosta

On 4/5/19 7:17 AM, Theo de Raadt wrote:

>> You are correct its not my process, but I am still curious as to the
>> rationale which is just a question that was not answered. Nowhere did I
>> suggest, or imply, that it should be changed.
>>
>> And how do you define crappier releases? If something is stable enough
>> that the development team decide to mark a release that is up to them,
>> not you which is similar to what you noted about this being *your*
>> process, that is *theirs*.
>
> Wow you sure are opinionated.
>
> We as a team make releases every 6 months like clockwork.
>
> Anything else is none of your business.  Your line of commentary is
> showing a distinct lack of respect, and I kindly propose you get
> stuffed.
>
>> Edward Lopez-Acosta
>>
>> On 4/5/19 7:08 AM, Theo de Raadt wrote:
>>>> Could you please explain the logic behind this as I am confused. Is this
>>>> due to an inefficient process, technical limitation, or other reason
>>>> (lack of manpower doesn't qualify as that seems self inflicted by the
>>>> project)? Are you somehow tracking submissions to take care of when this
>>>> unlocked so people don't waste their time needing to resubmit them?
>>>
>>> Our process.  *OUR* process.  This is not your process.  Meaning it
>>> isn't your decision.
>>>
>>>> While they may exist I know of no other project, including OS, that halt
>>>> development like this for long, if at all, to do a release. Again, they
>>>> may exist I just don't know of any and find the process awkward and
>>>> confusing.
>>>
>>> Other projects split their developers between "making the release" and
>>> "working on the future", and as a result they take a long time to make
>>> crappier releases.
>>>
>>> That's their choice.
>>>
>>> It is not our choice.
>>>
>>> It is *NOT YOUR CHOICE*, and you don't have standing to comment.
>>>
>>

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Re: Ports tree locked for 6.5 release

Theo de Raadt-2
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
>Do you have documentation on this process? I would be happy to read it
>and ask questions you feel may be better. As an open source project I am
>surprised about the lack of transparency for various things.

Such strong words!

>I have opinions yes, but I also try to understand those of others which
>is what prompted the questions. Not sure how asking questions to better
>understand of a process/project is disrespectful if you could clarify
>that would be great.

It is not your place.



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Re: Ports tree locked for 6.5 release

Solene Rapenne
In reply to this post by Edward Lopez-Acosta
On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 06:44:36AM -0500, Edward Lopez-Acosta wrote:

> Could you please explain the logic behind this as I am confused. Is this due
> to an inefficient process, technical limitation, or other reason (lack of
> manpower doesn't qualify as that seems self inflicted by the project)? Are
> you somehow tracking submissions to take care of when this unlocked so
> people don't waste their time needing to resubmit them?
>
> While they may exist I know of no other project, including OS, that halt
> development like this for long, if at all, to do a release. Again, they may
> exist I just don't know of any and find the process awkward and confusing.
>
> > Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2019 15:58:06 +0200
> > From: Christian Weisgerber <[hidden email]>
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Ports tree locked for 6.5 release
> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> >
> > The t2k19 hackathon has concluded and the ports tree is now locked
> > for the 6.5 release.  Important(!) fixes are still possible for a
> > brief period.  Committers need to ask sthen@ or me for approval.
> >
> > --
> > Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          [hidden email]
>
>
> --
> Edward Lopez-Acosta
>

People working on ports can still continue to work locally and will wait
the freeze to commit locally tested changes.

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Re: Ports tree locked for 6.5 release

Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen
In reply to this post by Edward Lopez-Acosta
Apr 05, 2019 at 07:20:49AM -0500, Edward Lopez-Acosta wrote:
> Do you have documentation on this process? I would be happy to read it and
> ask questions you feel may be better. As an open source project I am
> surprised about the lack of transparency for various things.

You will find several links to presentations about the OpenBSD development and
release process at the "Events and papers" page on the web site (http://www.openbsd.org/events.html).

For general orientation about the project and its goals, the FAQ at
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/ is an excellent place to start.

- P

--
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.

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Re: Ports tree locked for 6.5 release

Andreas Kusalananda Kähäri-4
In reply to this post by Edward Lopez-Acosta
On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 06:44:36AM -0500, Edward Lopez-Acosta wrote:
> Could you please explain the logic behind this as I am confused. Is this due
> to an inefficient process, technical limitation, or other reason (lack of
> manpower doesn't qualify as that seems self inflicted by the project)? Are
> you somehow tracking submissions to take care of when this unlocked so
> people don't waste their time needing to resubmit them?
>
> While they may exist I know of no other project, including OS, that halt
> development like this for long, if at all, to do a release. Again, they may
> exist I just don't know of any and find the process awkward and confusing.

NetBSD freezes its pkgsrc tree before each of their quarterly releases.
FreeBSD used to have the same practice for their ports.

Debian Linux enters a period of freeze before a release.  As does
Ubuntu.  Fedora has three stages of "milestone freezing".

This is not an uncommon thing.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeze_(software_engineering)

Cheers,

>
> > Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2019 15:58:06 +0200
> > From: Christian Weisgerber <[hidden email]>
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Ports tree locked for 6.5 release
> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> >
> > The t2k19 hackathon has concluded and the ports tree is now locked
> > for the 6.5 release.  Important(!) fixes are still possible for a
> > brief period.  Committers need to ask sthen@ or me for approval.
> >
> > --
> > Christian "naddy" Weisgerber                          [hidden email]
>
>
> --
> Edward Lopez-Acosta

--
Andreas Kusalananda Kähäri,
National Bioinformatics Infrastructure Sweden (NBIS),
Uppsala University, Sweden.

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Re: Ports tree locked for 6.5 release

Stuart Henderson
In reply to this post by Edward Lopez-Acosta
On 2019/04/05 06:44, Edward Lopez-Acosta wrote:
> Could you please explain the logic behind this as I am confused. Is this due
> to an inefficient process, technical limitation, or other reason (lack of
> manpower doesn't qualify as that seems self inflicted by the project)?

You seem to disagree a lot with the way that OpenBSD does things. A
way which, while not perfect, works reasonably well for many of us.

I suspect you'll be happier with some other OS - possibly a "rolling
release" Linux distribution (maybe Arch + community packages) - that is
more in keeping with what you're looking for as it's pretty clear that
the way we operate doesn't work for you.

> Are you somehow tracking submissions to take care of when this unlocked so
> people don't waste their time needing to resubmit them?

No we aren't. As I'm sure you're already aware we don't track them out
of lock either.

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Re: Ports tree locked for 6.5 release

Ian Darwin
In reply to this post by Edward Lopez-Acosta
On 4/5/19 7:44 AM, Edward Lopez-Acosta wrote:
> Is this due to an inefficient process, technical limitation, or other
> reason (lack of manpower doesn't qualify as that seems self inflicted
> by the project)?

This wording is one of several things that led to accusations of
disrespect. If I said "Are you asking about our process due to your
terrible reading skills, or because you're too lazy to look on the web
site, or other reason (not having time to read web pages doesn't qualify
as it seems self-inflicted by your choices)", would you be inclined to
answer in a good mood?

That, and the fact that you actually did somehow fail to look on the
website where there are multiple presentations on the topic, shows a
disrespect for the developers' time, in having to take the time away
from development to answer questions that are already answered and/or
that are common practice in the field (these have both been pointed out
by others in this thread).

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Re: Ports tree locked for 6.5 release

Marc Espie-2
In reply to this post by Edward Lopez-Acosta
On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 07:11:57AM -0500, Edward Lopez-Acosta wrote:
> You are correct its not my process, but I am still curious as to the
> rationale which is just a question that was not answered. Nowhere did I
> suggest, or imply, that it should be changed.

There's no rationale.

Just experimental results.

We did lots of tweaks to the release process over the years.

The current way is what causes the least amount of angst among
developers.

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Re: Ports tree locked for 6.5 release

Ed Ahlsen-Girard-2
In reply to this post by Christian Weisgerber
> From:       Marc Espie <espie () nerim ! net>
> Date:       2019-04-06 13:24:35
> Message-ID: 20190406132435.GA7545 () lain ! home
> [Download RAW message or body]
>
> On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 07:11:57AM -0500, Edward Lopez-Acosta wrote:
> > You are correct its not my process, but I am still curious as to the
> > rationale which is just a question that was not answered. Nowhere
> > did I suggest, or imply, that it should be changed.
>
> There's no rationale.
>
> Just experimental results.
>
> We did lots of tweaks to the release process over the years.
>
> The current way is what causes the least amount of angst among
> developers.

"That which experiment has found, though theory had no part in,
Is always reckoned more than sound to put your mind and heart in."

Wolfgang Pauli as Faust in the Blegdamsvej Faust (performed at a Solvay
Conference), recorded by George Gamow in Thirty Years That Shook
Physics.

--

Edward Ahlsen-Girard
Ft Walton Beach, FL