Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Jonathon Sisson
On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 03:22:51AM -0200, Henrique Lengler wrote:

> On 2014-12-23 02:55, Eric Furman wrote:
> >No. This is done by the BIOS.
> >After the computer boots the BIOS then hands over control to the OS.
>
> So this it the time the OS is able to do whatfuck it wants with my HDD, and
> so the OS have control over HDD. Right?
>
> >And yes, that is a gross over simplification of what actually happens.
> >There is no way that any OS can 'break' a hard drive.
>
> So why this happened when using OpenBSD?
> --
> Henrique Lengler
>
OpenBSD does not support UEFI secure boot.  I'm not a developer, so I won't
offer an answer as to why support is "lacking", but I suspect it has something
to do with UEFI being a metric fuckton of bullshit.

That said, I'm willing to bet if you disable secure boot, it'll act differently
than what it is now.  And, depending on what distro of Linux you installed, it
may support UEFI (and hence the "BIOS boot" of Linux may not have been with
UEFI disabled).

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Maurice McCarthy
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
On 2014-12-23 05:22, Henrique Lengler wrote:

> On 2014-12-23 02:55, Eric Furman wrote:
>> No. This is done by the BIOS.
>> After the computer boots the BIOS then hands over control to the OS.
>
> So this it the time the OS is able to do whatfuck it wants with my
> HDD, and
> so the OS have control over HDD. Right?
>
>> And yes, that is a gross over simplification of what actually
>> happens.
>> There is no way that any OS can 'break' a hard drive.
>
> So why this happened when using OpenBSD?

I stand to be corrected but I do not think that OpenBSD can support
UEFI nor GPT partitions, not yet anyhow.

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Joel Rees-2
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Henrique Lengler
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 2014-12-23 03:01, Joel Rees wrote:
>>
>> By the way, how are you accessing the internet now?
>
>
> My mother's notebook via wireless connection.

Would she mind too much if you took the time to read through the FAQs
I suggested?

>> Or perhaps you forgot to write down the URL for a nearby mirror before
>> you started, so you could tell the installer to get the stuff from a
>> mirror. For example,
>>
>>    http://ftp.jaist.ac.jp/pub/OpenBSD/
>
> How this would help me if I had no internet connection?

Do you plan on accessing the internet once the OS is running?

How is that gong to work?

But that's not a question for now, I guess.

>>> When I tried to turn on again, the system didn't boot.
>>
>> That's not too surprising. Although, I wonder, did you notice how far
>> it got in the boot process before it stopped?
>
> This is the point had confusion.
> It stopped on the bios screen.

So, it was booting to the BIOS.

> It even began to load the disc, because it
> didn't recognize it.

Yeah. You have to tell the BIOS where to look or it doesn't know where
to look. If it doesn't know where to look, how can it see enough to
recognize anything?

> It didn't booted because my hard drive isn't more recognized. Not because
> the system isn't correct installed.

This much, you could well be right about.

> If the only problem was the system
> installation
> I would be able to at least enter the BIOS.

Why do you want to go back to the BIOS without re-booting?

>>> I
>>> discovered that it
>>> only worked if I remove the hard drive.
>>
>>
>> I suppose you mean that it would boot the install CD?
>>
>> There could be boot device order issues.

Or partition/master boot record, or, as others have mentioned, UEFI
issues, although I'm guessing you got UEFI worked out (switched to
legacy) when you installed a Linux OS a year ago.

Something you might try, re-install the Linux OS, but make sure you
leave about half the HD for openbsd. Then tell the Linux OS installer
you will be multibooting, if it asks. But I think you want to re-read
those FAQs first.

And while it it installing, read those FAQs I gave you the links to:

    http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#Boot386

    http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Multibooting

Even if they are hard to understand, reading them again woud be a good idea.

> As I said before, my computer does nothing with the hard drive attached,

Except that it is showing you that is is attempting to boot.

It couldn't even attempt to boot if it weren't getting to the BIOS,
because it is the BIOS that is going looking for the OS telling you it
can't find it.

>>> Thinking that the problem was the harddrive I sent it to warranty to be
>>> repleaced.
>>
>> Definitely a drastic step.
>
> Definitely not a drastic step,

Okay, we'll pretend I didn't say it was a drastic step.

> since my test showed that it was the problem
> and it really was because it worked the first time I tried when it arrived
> new
> from warranty.

We can talk about that later.

>>> I took
>>> 10 long days (withou my computer) to arrive a new one.
>>> When it arrived, I tested and I saw that now it is working. I prepared a
>>> cable connection, and I
>>> started again the openbsd setup.
>>> It sucefully downloaded and installed everything, so I rebooted the
>>> system
>>> to boot my new fresh install.
>>
>> I see from your later posts that you have installed Linux before. You
>> should understand there is a difference between Linux and openbsd.
>> Openbsd does not install a bootloader for you.
>
> Does a bad OpenBSD install would change how my BIOS detect my HDD, and make
> all the
> rest hardware stop working when it is plugged, exactly as it happen when you
> put
> a drive in short circuit?

Yeah. Let's talk about that later, too.

Except, I'm wondering whether I might be able to set the active
partition on the disk and it would then boot for you. If I were there.

The problem, I am sure, is not that the install is messed up. I'm
pretty sure you just

(1) don't have a boot loader,

(2) haven't written the master boot record,

and/or (3) haven't set the active parttion.

>>> AND SHIT, everything happened as before, the system don't boot as before,
>>> I
>>> can't open the bios as before,
>>
>> How did you "open the BIOS" when you were able to "open the BIOS"?
>>
> Pressing DEL or F2 on boot.

Most BIOSses won't let you do that once they decide they can't find an
OS to boot. It's normal.

--
Joel Rees

Be careful when you look at conspiracy.
Look first in your own heart,
and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy.
Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well.

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Steve Litt
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
On Tue, 23 Dec 2014 03:22:51 -0200
Henrique Lengler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2014-12-23 02:55, Eric Furman wrote:
> > No. This is done by the BIOS.
> > After the computer boots the BIOS then hands over control to the OS.
>
> So this it the time the OS is able to do whatfuck it wants with my
> HDD, and
> so the OS have control over HDD. Right?
>
> > And yes, that is a gross over simplification of what actually
> > happens. There is no way that any OS can 'break' a hard drive.
>
> So why this happened when using OpenBSD?

There are so many variables here that the *only* way to find the root
cause is the process of eliminations. Guessing that OpenBSD did it will
only get you more mad.

If this were *my* computer I'd grab a couple blank CDs, go somewhere
where you can download, and download and burn System Rescue CD. You can
boot that and examine your computer, including the disk.

Start ruling out sections of the root cause scope, and pretty soon
you'll know the exact root cause. By the way, I think System Rescue CD
has SMART programs, so you can see whether your hard disk is damaged,
or just has lost its file system or GPT or MBR.

SteveT

Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Dmitrij D. Czarkoff-2
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
Henrique Lengler said:
> I could not acess the command line

Why?  How did you install the system then?

> When I tried to turn on again, the system didn't boot.

What exactly happened?  Blank screen?  System started booting but froze
in process?  Did your laptop pass BIOS tests?

> Could someone please explain me why this happened?

Unlikely until you mention the model of your laptop and describe the
problem in more detail.

--
Dmitrij D. Czarkoff

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Gregory Edigarov-5
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
On 12/23/2014 04:04 AM, Henrique Lengler wrote:
> Hi,
 >
 > I decided to install openbsd by the first time a month ago, How I was
 > with no internet connection I needed to shutdown the computer in the
 > part that I need to download the packages, because I hadn't it on the
 > cd. I could not acess the command line so I clicked the reset button
 > on the front panel. When I tried to turn on again, the system didn't
 > boot. I discovered that it only worked if I remove the hard drive.
 > Thinking that the problem was the harddrive I sent it to warranty to
 > be repleaced. I took 10 long days (withou my computer) to arrive a
 > new one. When it arrived, I tested and I saw that now it is working.
 > I prepared a cable connection, and I started again the openbsd
 > setup. It sucefully downloaded and installed everything, so I
 > rebooted the system to boot my new fresh install. AND SHIT,
 > everything happened as before, the system don't boot as before, I
 > can't open the bios as before, and I got really mad.
 >
 > I don't know if I will be able to sent it to warranty again, but this
 > isn't the right thing to do now that I discovered that the problem
 > isn't with it, the problem is with Openbsd.
 >
 > Could someone please explain me why this happened? Can you think
 > about a way to fix this without send it to warranty? Any other
 > questions? send me a reply, I'm really in need of help
 >
Hi,

I can remember similar problems when I first tried to install OpenBSD on
my current computer.
The problem were performance settings in BIOS, that were somehow set to
high performance profile.
After setting that to Standard Profile - things went smoothly.

--
With best regards,
        Gregory Edigarov

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Robert Blacquiere-7
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
Hi,

On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 12:04:25AM -0200, Henrique Lengler wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I decided to install openbsd by the first time a month ago, How I
> was with no internet
> connection I needed to shutdown the computer in the part that I need
> to download the packages,
> because I hadn't it on the cd. I could not acess the command line so
> I clicked the reset button
> on the front panel. When I tried to turn on again, the system didn't
> boot. I discovered that it
> only worked if I remove the hard drive.
> Thinking that the problem was the harddrive I sent it to warranty to
> be repleaced. I took
> 10 long days (withou my computer) to arrive a new one.
> When it arrived, I tested and I saw that now it is working. I
> prepared a cable connection, and I
> started again the openbsd setup.
> It sucefully downloaded and installed everything, so I rebooted the
> system to boot my new fresh install.
> AND SHIT, everything happened as before, the system don't boot as
> before, I can't open the bios as before, and
>  I got really mad.
>
> I don't know if I will be able to sent it to warranty again, but
> this isn't the right thing to do now that
>  I discovered that the problem isn't with it, the problem is with
> Openbsd.
>
> Could someone please explain me why this happened? Can you think
> about a way to fix this without send it to warranty?
> Any other questions? send me a reply, I'm really in need of help
>
> --
> Henrique Lengler
>

Please send us the model, brand etc of your pc. This would be helpful
for everyone.

Also my own experience with EFI and secureboot systems show unable to
detect a openbsd installation. Only when "bios" is set to CSM or CSM an
UEFI OS (Samsung AtivPro type) it will see a bootable OpenBSD disk.

Please send us this type of information. Without it it would be guesing
1000's possible issues.

Regards

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

L.R. D.S.
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
The BIOS have nothing to do with the OS, it's other coding layer, and the OS can't "disable" the HDD since it have their own firmware on microcontroller.
I would suggest: if you can boot from CD like you say, you can:
- Flash the BIOS. See your board and download from oficial site;
- Reboot and make a low-level dump of your HDD (you can use diskdump for this);
- Set your BIOS to standard config's, but legacy boot and the SATA port that your HDD where;
- Download the image of 5.6 from Calgary mirror (don't download from US mirrors);
- Try install.

If you can't, so: your HDD are broken or your hardware (maybe motherboard) are broken.

Greeting,
Luiz.

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
Henrique Lengler <[hidden email]> writes:

> I decided to install openbsd by the first time a month ago, How I
> was with no internet connection I needed to shutdown the computer in
> the part that I need to download the packages, because I hadn't it
> on the cd. I could not acess the command line so I clicked the reset
> button on the front panel. When I tried to turn on again, the system
> didn't boot. I discovered that it only worked if I remove the hard
> drive.  Thinking that the problem was the harddrive I sent it to
> warranty to be repleaced. I took 10 long days (withou my computer)
> to arrive a new one.  When it arrived, I tested and I saw that now
> it is working. I prepared a cable connection, and I started again
> the openbsd setup.  It sucefully downloaded and installed
> everything, so I rebooted the system to boot my new fresh install.
> AND SHIT, everything happened as before, the system don't boot as
> before, I can't open the bios as before, and I got really mad.

Did you in fact complete the install at all, or did you just partition
the disk and press reset before installing any sets?

While you're on an internet connected computer, please look up the
installation parts of the FAQ http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html and
see if you can't find the part where things started going wrong. I
strongly suspect that you did not in fact complete the install.

That said, since you're revealing next to no information about the
system you are trying to install on, I'll offer this by way of
historical anecdotes from times better forgotten: I've seen systems
that were Windows-specific to the point that large chunks of the
system setup software including a point'n'click interface to BIOS were
stored in a special partition on the system's hard disk. Destroying
that partition (such as choosing to use the whole disk for OpenBSD
while running the OpenBSD installer) could lead to odd behavior on
some machines, while on others you would be stuck with whatever
settings the system had before you wiped the magic partition.

The latter included some late-noughties cheapo-thinkpads such as my
now retired SL500 (http://bsdly.blogspot.no/2010/01/goodness-of-men-and-machinery.html,
which also offers a rough idea of how an OpenBSD install proceeds).
Pressing the big blue button on that laptop after installing OpenBSD lead
to exactly zero results, but the machine ran OpenBSD fine as its only
operating system and so I did not waste too much energy on what the blue
button might have given me.

It's possible (but not very likely) you are the victim of something
like this, but I strongly suspect that you simply pressed the reset
button after partitioning the disk but before installing an operating
system.  Pressing the reset button insistently at the wrong moment can
even leave you with a hard disk without valid partitioning, which
means that the system is in a state that does not let it boot easily.

But once again, your best option right now is to look up the install
part of the FAQ, get hold of a valid install medium that include the
install sets (both CD images and USB thumbdrive images are available)
and go from there.

--
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Henrique N. Lengler
In reply to this post by Brent Cook
On 2014-12-23 04:06, Brent Cook wrote:

> There have been a couple of reports similar to this one that were fixed
> with a firmware update from the motherboard or system vendor. I would
> presume the firmware basically crashes if it sees a boot code written
> on the hard drive it does not expect, even if it follows the
> standards:
>
> http://marc.info/?t=139884306000001&r=1&w=2
>
> http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&w=2&r=1&s=Axiomtek+NA570&q=b
>
> I worked on a new-ish laptop recently that would not boot from a CD or
> any non-Windows partition unless I first removed the hard drive,
> entered the EFI/Bios setup, set a password, then disabled EFI secure
> boot.

Good, you're giving me hope. Good links, I will try this.

Also found a very similar with a similar motherboard, but have no
answer.

Regards,
--
Henrique Lengler

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Henrique N. Lengler
In reply to this post by Dmitrij D. Czarkoff-2
On 2014-12-23 04:27, Dmitrij D. Czarkoff wrote:
> Unlikely until you mention the model of your laptop and describe the
> problem in more detail.

Ok, it is not a laptop. It have a ASUS Z87-k motherboard, 8GB CRUCIAL
RAM, Intel Core i7 4770k processor.
My HDD is a Seagate Barracuda 1TB.

Regards

--
Henrique Lengler

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Henrique N. Lengler
In reply to this post by Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen
On 2014-12-23 10:33, [hidden email] wrote:
> Did you in fact complete the install at all, or did you just partition
> the disk and press reset before installing any sets?

As I said, everything I can expect from a bad uncompleted install is the
system trying
to load the HDD and it fails.
But what really happen is that if I tur on the computer with the HDD
connected, all other
hardware stop working. Even the keyboard lights stop blinking when
clicking
Caps/Num Lock.

--
Henrique Lengler

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
Henrique Lengler <[hidden email]> writes:

> Ok, it is not a laptop. It have a ASUS Z87-k motherboard, 8GB CRUCIAL
> RAM, Intel Core i7 4770k processor.

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Z87K/HelpDesk_Download/ appears to be
the source of BIOS updates and utilities, and do poke around the FAQ
section too.

- P
--
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Sonic
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Henrique Lengler
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> As I said, everything I can expect from a bad uncompleted install is the
> system trying
> to load the HDD and it fails.

It's worth double checking but my guess is that you have the "Secure
Boot" feature in the BIOS set to "Other OS" (which is mandatory) as if
was set set to "Windows UEFI Mode" it would be odd that you could boot
the OpenBSD install media.

Another thing to check is the BIOS version. If you're not at version
1401 (released 2014.09.12) it would behoove you to do so. After the
update load the defaults then after a reboot go back in and set
"Secure Boot" to "Other OS".

Chris

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
Henrique Lengler <[hidden email]> writes:

> On 2014-12-23 10:33, [hidden email] wrote:
> > Did you in fact complete the install at all, or did you just partition
> > the disk and press reset before installing any sets?
>
> As I said, everything I can expect from a bad uncompleted install is
> the system trying to load the HDD and it fails.  

Your expectations are irrelevant. How far your botched installation
proceeded before you pushed the reset button is.

There are several ways to break setups by misusing powerful tools. And
of course there is a very real possibility that hardware or firmware
bugs are what's tripping you up.

How far did you install proceed before you pushed the reset button?

Have you tried attaching the disk to a different machine?

--
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Sonic
In reply to this post by Sonic
On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Sonic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Another thing to check is the BIOS version. If you're not at version
> 1401 (released 2014.09.12) it would behoove you to do so. After the
> update load the defaults then after a reboot go back in and set
> "Secure Boot" to "Other OS".

Note on the Asus site (in the "BIOS-Utilities" section) that you need
to use the "BIOS updater for New 4th Gen Intel Core Processors" before
updating the BIOS:

"Before using the new Intel 4th Gen Core processors, we suggest that
you first download the BIOS updater for new Intel 4th Gen Core
Processors and then update the BIOS using this tool."

Chris

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Sonic
In reply to this post by Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen
On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Peter N. M. Hansteen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> How far did you install proceed before you pushed the reset button?

In general pushing the reset button is a very bad idea. If you're
really stuck holding in the power button is a better option just in
case the system is in a state where an ACPI shutdown can occur.

Chris

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Sonic
In reply to this post by Sonic
On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Sonic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It's worth double checking but my guess is that you have the "Secure
> Boot" feature in the BIOS set to "Other OS" (which is mandatory) as if
> was set set to "Windows UEFI Mode" it would be odd that you could boot
> the OpenBSD install media.

Note some other BIOS settings you may want to examine:
========================================
Boot Devices Control [UEFI and Legacy OpROM]

Allows you to select the type of devices that you want to boot up.
Configuration options:
[UEFI and Legacy OpROM] [Legacy OpROM only] [UEFI only]
========================================
========================================
Boot from Storage Devices [Legacy OpROM first]

Allows you to select the type of storage devices that you want to
launch. Configuration
options: [Both, Legacy OpROM first] [Both, UEFI first] [Legacy OpROM
first] [UEFI driver first]
[Ignore]
========================================

Probably best to set both of those to [Legacy OpROM first].

At any rate a properly updated BIOS and a reading of the latest
version of the user manual (most likely not the one that came printed
with your board) should go a long way toward resolving the problem.

Chris

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[probably solved] Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Henrique N. Lengler
I figured that my BIOS have a old firmware from 2013. So I decided to
update it.
At least this my motherboard did good, I easily updated the firmware by
plugging
a USB with the new firmware.
Then It rebooted and yes, it worked as it should. Booted normally with
the HDD sata
connected. I cannot get satisfied yet, I will install a OS and see if it
will still
  working.
I'm in doubt about try openBSD again, I'm afraid everything could happen
again.

Also is there a explanation to this shitty behavior? My motherboard
acted like having a
short circuit, making everything stop working because a bad formatted
HDD, this is a
really unexpected behavior, which made me think the problem was openBSD.

By now, thanks for helping.
I expect don't need to post anything more here.

Regards,
--
Henrique Lengler

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Josh Grosse
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
On 2014-12-23 10:48, Henrique Lengler wrote:

> On 2014-12-23 10:33, [hidden email] wrote:
>> Did you in fact complete the install at all, or did you just partition
>> the disk and press reset before installing any sets?
>
> As I said, everything I can expect from a bad uncompleted install is
> the system trying
> to load the HDD and it fails.
> But what really happen is that if I tur on the computer with the HDD
> connected, all other
> hardware stop working. Even the keyboard lights stop blinking when
> clicking
> Caps/Num Lock.

I am aware of one prior instance of a BIOS failing to complete POST
after
installing a FreeBSD OS.

http://daemonforums.org/showthread.php?t=7238

Root cause was never isolated, but in hindsight I would guess EUFI.

1234