Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

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Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Henrique N. Lengler
Hi,

I decided to install openbsd by the first time a month ago, How I was
with no internet
connection I needed to shutdown the computer in the part that I need to
download the packages,
because I hadn't it on the cd. I could not acess the command line so I
clicked the reset button
on the front panel. When I tried to turn on again, the system didn't
boot. I discovered that it
only worked if I remove the hard drive.
Thinking that the problem was the harddrive I sent it to warranty to be
repleaced. I took
10 long days (withou my computer) to arrive a new one.
When it arrived, I tested and I saw that now it is working. I prepared a
cable connection, and I
started again the openbsd setup.
It sucefully downloaded and installed everything, so I rebooted the
system to boot my new fresh install.
AND SHIT, everything happened as before, the system don't boot as
before, I can't open the bios as before, and
  I got really mad.

I don't know if I will be able to sent it to warranty again, but this
isn't the right thing to do now that
  I discovered that the problem isn't with it, the problem is with
Openbsd.

Could someone please explain me why this happened? Can you think about a
way to fix this without send it to warranty?
Any other questions? send me a reply, I'm really in need of help

--
Henrique Lengler

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Jonathon Sisson
On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 12:04:25AM -0200, Henrique Lengler wrote:
> Could someone please explain me why this happened? Can you think about a way
> to fix this without send it to warranty?
> Any other questions? send me a reply, I'm really in need of help

# cd /usr/src/distrib/miniroot/
# grep -B3 'inconsistent state' install.sub
At any prompt except password prompts you can escape to a shell by
typing '!'. Default answers are shown in []'s and are selected by
pressing RETURN.  You can exist this program at any time by pressing
Control-C, but this can leave your system in an inconsistent state.

Did you not see this warning while installing?

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Henrique N. Lengler
On 2014-12-23 00:12, OpenBSD lists wrote:
> # cd /usr/src/distrib/miniroot/
> # grep -B3 'inconsistent state' install.sub
> At any prompt except password prompts you can escape to a shell by
> typing '!'. Default answers are shown in []'s and are selected by
> pressing RETURN.  You can exist this program at any time by pressing
> Control-C, but this can leave your system in an inconsistent state.
>
> Did you not see this warning while installing?

What about my second attempt, in which I did everything normally and the
same problem happened?

--
Henrique Lengler

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Edgar Pettijohn III-2
Have you tried installing something other than OpenBSD since you ran into this issue?

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Henrique N. Lengler
On 2014-12-23 00:50, Edgar Pettijohn III wrote:
> Have you tried installing something other than OpenBSD since you ran
> into this issue?

Since I ran into this issue I can't even access my bios with the HDD
sata connected.
--
Henrique Lengler

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Henrique N. Lengler
In reply to this post by Edgar Pettijohn III-2
On 2014-12-23 00:53, Edgar Pettijohn III wrote:
> So if you stick in a disk with an iso from some other os it won't boot
> from the cd without you accessing bios?

I didn't and I can't try this because I don't have any other HDD here.
But it can boot my CD/DVD reader with a cd containing Linux, wich is
connected via a SATA cable too.
I tried to change HDD the cable and the port, and anything solved.
--
Henrique Lengler

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Ted Unangst-6
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 00:53, Henrique Lengler wrote:
> On 2014-12-23 00:50, Edgar Pettijohn III wrote:
>> Have you tried installing something other than OpenBSD since you ran
>> into this issue?
>
> Since I ran into this issue I can't even access my bios with the HDD
> sata connected.

That can only be a problem with your BIOS. Update it? Get a better
one? I don't know. But if your BIOS doesn't work with some drive
attached, your BIOS is broken.

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Henrique N. Lengler
On 2014-12-23 01:02, Ted Unangst wrote:
> That can only be a problem with your BIOS. Update it? Get a better
> one? I don't know. But if your BIOS doesn't work with some drive
> attached, your BIOS is broken.

How can you say this? The problem isn't my BIOS don't booting with a
broke HDD. I have evidences it work if I put a working drive.
My motherboard is very new and it every worked good in any type of
system.
--
Henrique Lengler

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Martin Brandenburg
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
Henrique Lengler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2014-12-23 00:50, Edgar Pettijohn III wrote:
> > Have you tried installing something other than OpenBSD since you ran
> > into this issue?
>
> Since I ran into this issue I can't even access my bios with the HDD
> sata connected.
> --
> Henrique Lengler

It would be exceedingly odd for OpenBSD to be able to break that.

Has anything ever been installed successfully on this machine? Perhaps
the motherboard or power supply causes damage after extended use.

-- Martin

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Henrique N. Lengler
On 2014-12-23 01:08, [hidden email] wrote:
> Has anything ever been installed successfully on this machine? Perhaps
> the motherboard or power supply causes damage after extended use.
>
> -- Martin

Yes, my motherboard and power supply have 1 year of use, it every
worked, and still
working good. The evidence is that after try to install OpenBSD by the
second time, I did
a test, I reboot my system three times, accessed bios and everything
worked.
--
Henrique Lengler

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Henrique N. Lengler
On 2014-12-23 01:11, Henrique Lengler wrote:

> Yes, my motherboard and power supply have 1 year of use, it every
> worked, and still
> working good. The evidence is that after try to install OpenBSD by the

I mean before
--
Henrique Lengler

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Martin Brandenburg
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
Henrique Lengler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2014-12-23 01:08, [hidden email] wrote:
> > Has anything ever been installed successfully on this machine? Perhaps
> > the motherboard or power supply causes damage after extended use.
> >
> > -- Martin
>
> Yes, my motherboard and power supply have 1 year of use, it every
> worked, and still
> working good. The evidence is that after try to install OpenBSD by the
> second time, I did
> a test, I reboot my system three times, accessed bios and everything
> worked.
> --
> Henrique Lengler

Does the disk that you claim OpenBSD damaged still work in a different
computer?

I was being nice when I said exceedingly odd. It's more like impossible.
You come here with an impossible problem and no information. You haven't
even said what type of computer this is. I realize a dmesg is impossible
when it won't boot (though you could unplug the offending disk and get a
dmesg from the CD), but some information would be nice.

-- Martin

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Henrique N. Lengler
On 2014-12-23 01:18, [hidden email] wrote:
> Does the disk that you claim OpenBSD damaged still work in a different
> computer?

Will be difficult to me can do this, I don't have any other desktop in
my house.
I will see if I can do this later.

> I was being nice when I said exceedingly odd. It's more like
> impossible.
> You come here with an impossible problem and no information. You
> haven't
> even said what type of computer this is. I realize a dmesg is
> impossible
> when it won't boot (though you could unplug the offending disk and get
> a
> dmesg from the CD), but some information would be nice.

Isn't the operating system responsible to recognize and use with a
correct
driver my HDD?
Linux is like this, the kernel have the SATA driver wich handle the
drivers.

Regards,
--
Henrique Lengler

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Jonathon Sisson
In reply to this post by Jonathon Sisson
On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 12:42:25AM -0200, Henrique Lengler wrote:

> On 2014-12-23 00:12, OpenBSD lists wrote:
> ># cd /usr/src/distrib/miniroot/
> ># grep -B3 'inconsistent state' install.sub
> >At any prompt except password prompts you can escape to a shell by
> >typing '!'. Default answers are shown in []'s and are selected by
> >pressing RETURN.  You can exist this program at any time by pressing
> >Control-C, but this can leave your system in an inconsistent state.
> >
> >Did you not see this warning while installing?
>
> What about my second attempt in which I did everything normally?
> --
> Henrique Lengler

Here's a silly question...is it an EFI system?  I would think
the installer wouldn't boot properly if so, but you may have
to go into your BIOS and set it up for legacy boot?

I don't know.  I've never heard of an OS install causing
physical damage to a machine (though a few FreeBSD installs
I performed around the 6.X/7.X timeframe caused *me* to harm
a computer =).

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Henrique N. Lengler
On 2014-12-23 02:00, Jonathon Sisson wrote:

> Here's a silly question...is it an EFI system?  I would think
> the installer wouldn't boot properly if so, but you may have
> to go into your BIOS and set it up for legacy boot?
Yes, it's a EFI system.
How this would help if it can't even recognize the disk.
Just in case, I already used Linux with a totally BIOS setup and it
worked.

> I don't know.  I've never heard of an OS install causing
> physical damage to a machine (though a few FreeBSD installs
> I performed around the 6.X/7.X timeframe caused *me* to harm
> a computer =).

I'm also surprised with this, but I'm almost sure that it happened.
I think we should study this and find the real problem cause.

Regards,
--
Henrique Lengler

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Eric Furman-3
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
On Mon, Dec 22, 2014, at 10:23 PM, Henrique Lengler wrote:

> On 2014-12-23 01:18, [hidden email] wrote:
> > Does the disk that you claim OpenBSD damaged still work in a different
> > computer?
>
> Will be difficult to me can do this, I don't have any other desktop in
> my house.
> I will see if I can do this later.
>
> > I was being nice when I said exceedingly odd. It's more like
> > impossible.
> > You come here with an impossible problem and no information. You
> > haven't
> > even said what type of computer this is. I realize a dmesg is
> > impossible
> > when it won't boot (though you could unplug the offending disk and get
> > a
> > dmesg from the CD), but some information would be nice.
>
> Isn't the operating system responsible to recognize and use with a
> correct
> driver my HDD?
> Linux is like this, the kernel have the SATA driver wich handle the
> drivers.

No. This is done by the BIOS.
After the computer boots the BIOS then hands over control to the OS.
And yes, that is a gross over simplification of what actually happens.
There is no way that any OS can 'break' a hard drive.
And since your computer is fairly new it probably uses UEFI.
You might try to go into your BIOS settings and try a 'Legacy' boot
option.

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Joel Rees-2
In reply to this post by Henrique N. Lengler
Ouch.

On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Henrique Lengler
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I decided to install openbsd by the first time a month ago, How I was with
> no internet
> connection

I guess you mean, no other way to access the internet.

By the way, how are you accessing the internet now?

> I needed to shutdown the computer

Don't do that. It hurts. I promise. Avoid it if at all possible by
planning ahead.

> in the part that I need to
> download the packages,

Yeah. This is where you need to plan ahead.

> because I hadn't it on the cd.

So, you downloaded the wrong CD image. Perhaps it was cd56.iso?

Getting the right CD is part of planning ahead.

Or perhaps you forgot to write down the URL for a nearby mirror before
you started, so you could tell the installer to get the stuff from a
mirror. For example,

   http://ftp.jaist.ac.jp/pub/OpenBSD/

is a mirror in Japan, which is sort of close to where I am. I have to
admit, I hate to write those urls down, too. But this is also part of
planning ahead. The file sets for a 32 bit intel or AMD CPU would be
in

   http://ftp.jaist.ac.jp/pub/OpenBSD/5.5/i386/

for the above mirror.

Buying the CD set would solve that problem, although you'd have to
wait for shipping.

Or you could download the install56.iso image, to have enough packages
for a working command-line system.

As another aside, these pages in the FAQ should help you plan ahead better:

    http://www.openbsd.org/faq/index.html

> I could not acess the command line so I
> clicked the reset button
> on the front panel.

ctrl-C might have gotten you to a command line?

> When I tried to turn on again, the system didn't boot.

That's not too surprising. Although, I wonder, did you notice how far
it got in the boot process before it stopped?

You might want to read through these, to help you describe how far you
are getting:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booting
    http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#Boot386

> I
> discovered that it
> only worked if I remove the hard drive.

I suppose you mean that it would boot the install CD?

There could be boot device order issues.

> Thinking that the problem was the harddrive I sent it to warranty to be
> repleaced.

Definitely a drastic step.

> I took
> 10 long days (withou my computer) to arrive a new one.
> When it arrived, I tested and I saw that now it is working. I prepared a
> cable connection, and I
> started again the openbsd setup.
> It sucefully downloaded and installed everything, so I rebooted the system
> to boot my new fresh install.

I see from your later posts that you have installed Linux before. You
should understand there is a difference between Linux and openbsd.
Openbsd does not install a bootloader for you.

This part of the FAQ should provide some useful information:

    http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Multibooting

> AND SHIT, everything happened as before, the system don't boot as before, I
> can't open the bios as before,

How did you "open the BIOS" when you were able to "open the BIOS"?

> and
>  I got really mad.
>
> I don't know if I will be able to sent it to warranty again, but this isn't
> the right thing to do now that
>  I discovered that the problem isn't with it, the problem is with Openbsd.

Or something.

> Could someone please explain me why this happened?

You are the only person at this time with enough information to
explain it, but you need to be able to tell us more than you are
teling us.

> Can you think about a way
> to fix this without send it to warranty?

I'm guessing you need to read through FAQ 14.7, on booting, that I
mentioned above:

    http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#Boot386

and then back to FAQ 4.9, again:

    http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Multibooting

> Any other questions?

Did you do anything to tell your BIOS where to find your openbsd install?

How did you partition the disks?

How many partitions do you have?

Are you trying to multiboot with a Linux OS or MSWindows?

What kind of motherboard is it? Is the CPU 32 bit or 64 bit?

> send me a reply, I'm really in need of help

:-/

--
Joel Rees

Be careful when you look at conspiracy.
Look first in your own heart,
and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy.
Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well.

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Henrique N. Lengler
On 2014-12-23 03:01, Joel Rees wrote:
> By the way, how are you accessing the internet now?

My mother's notebook via wireless connection.
> Or perhaps you forgot to write down the URL for a nearby mirror before
> you started, so you could tell the installer to get the stuff from a
> mirror. For example,
>
>    http://ftp.jaist.ac.jp/pub/OpenBSD/

How this would help me if I had no internet connection?

>> When I tried to turn on again, the system didn't boot.
>
> That's not too surprising. Although, I wonder, did you notice how far
> it got in the boot process before it stopped?

This is the point had confusion.
It stopped on the bios screen. It even began to load the disc, because
it didn't recognize it.
It didn't booted because my hard drive isn't more recognized. Not
because
the system isn't correct installed. If the only problem was the system
installation
I would be able to at least enter the BIOS.

>> I
>> discovered that it
>> only worked if I remove the hard drive.
>
> I suppose you mean that it would boot the install CD?
>
> There could be boot device order issues.

As I said before, my computer does nothing with the hard drive attached,
>> Thinking that the problem was the harddrive I sent it to warranty to
>> be
>> repleaced.
>
> Definitely a drastic step.
Definitely not a drastic step, since my test showed that it was the
problem
and it really was because it worked the first time I tried when it
arrived new
from warranty.

>> I took
>> 10 long days (withou my computer) to arrive a new one.
>> When it arrived, I tested and I saw that now it is working. I prepared
>> a
>> cable connection, and I
>> started again the openbsd setup.
>> It sucefully downloaded and installed everything, so I rebooted the
>> system
>> to boot my new fresh install.
>
> I see from your later posts that you have installed Linux before. You
> should understand there is a difference between Linux and openbsd.
> Openbsd does not install a bootloader for you.

Does a bad OpenBSD install would change how my BIOS detect my HDD, and
make all the
rest hardware stop working when it is plugged, exactly as it happen when
you put
a drive in short circuit?

>> AND SHIT, everything happened as before, the system don't boot as
>> before, I
>> can't open the bios as before,
>
> How did you "open the BIOS" when you were able to "open the BIOS"?
>

Pressing DEL or F2 on boot.

Regards,

--
Henrique Lengler

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Henrique N. Lengler
In reply to this post by Eric Furman-3
On 2014-12-23 02:55, Eric Furman wrote:
> No. This is done by the BIOS.
> After the computer boots the BIOS then hands over control to the OS.

So this it the time the OS is able to do whatfuck it wants with my HDD,
and
so the OS have control over HDD. Right?

> And yes, that is a gross over simplification of what actually happens.
> There is no way that any OS can 'break' a hard drive.

So why this happened when using OpenBSD?
--
Henrique Lengler

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Re: Openbsd broke my hard drive twice! Getting frustrated

Brent Cook
On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 11:22 PM, Henrique Lengler
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2014-12-23 02:55, Eric Furman wrote:
>>
>> No. This is done by the BIOS.
>> After the computer boots the BIOS then hands over control to the OS.
>
>
> So this it the time the OS is able to do whatfuck it wants with my HDD, and
> so the OS have control over HDD. Right?
>
>> And yes, that is a gross over simplification of what actually happens.
>> There is no way that any OS can 'break' a hard drive.
>
>
> So why this happened when using OpenBSD?
> --
> Henrique Lengler
>

I forgot to CC the list in the reply, sorry for the duplication:

Sometimes vendors do not do extensive testing, and do things like
hardcode strings in the firmware to expect Windows or Linux. Here is
an article discussing a problem with a Lenovo Thinkcentre that only
worked with Windows, Redhat or Fedora:

http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/20187.html

There have been a couple of reports similar to this one that were fixed
with a firmware update from the motherboard or system vendor. I would
presume the firmware basically crashes if it sees a boot code written
on the hard drive it does not expect, even if it follows the
standards:

http://marc.info/?t=139884306000001&r=1&w=2

http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&w=2&r=1&s=Axiomtek+NA570&q=b

I worked on a new-ish laptop recently that would not boot from a CD or
any non-Windows partition unless I first removed the hard drive,
entered the EFI/Bios setup, set a password, then disabled EFI secure
boot.

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