OpenBSD/hppa

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OpenBSD/hppa

Mark Kettenis
Over the last few weeks I've made some important improvements to the
OpenBSD/hppa port.  Support for newer B/C/J-class workstations was
added, and basically anything but the C8000 should just work.  I've
also fixed a rather critical bug, which makes machines with a PA-7200
CPU usable again (and makes machines with other CPU's much more
stable).  And last but not least, support for the NCR 53C720 Fast-Wide
SCSI found on many hppa machines has been added to siop(4).

With all these changes, I have reason to believe that most of the so
far unsupported D-class and K-class servers should just work, or will
work with just a small tweak to the code here and there.
Unfortunately I don't have such hardware myself, so if people have
access to one of these machines, could they give the latest snapshot a
go on them and send me (and [hidden email]) a copy of the dmesg?

Thanks,

Mark

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Re: OpenBSD/hppa

J.C. Roberts
On Tuesday 07 August 2007, Mark Kettenis wrote:

> Over the last few weeks I've made some important improvements to the
> OpenBSD/hppa port.  Support for newer B/C/J-class workstations was
> added, and basically anything but the C8000 should just work.  I've
> also fixed a rather critical bug, which makes machines with a PA-7200
> CPU usable again (and makes machines with other CPU's much more
> stable).  And last but not least, support for the NCR 53C720
> Fast-Wide SCSI found on many hppa machines has been added to siop(4).
>
> With all these changes, I have reason to believe that most of the so
> far unsupported D-class and K-class servers should just work, or will
> work with just a small tweak to the code here and there.
> Unfortunately I don't have such hardware myself, so if people have
> access to one of these machines, could they give the latest snapshot
> a go on them and send me (and [hidden email]) a copy of the dmesg?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark

off list please

I donated a C3000 and a J5000 awhile ago to help with hppa64 but I'm not
sure where those machines are now. If you need them or access to them,
you should talk to Theo or mickey or more likely, you already have
access to them. I do have other B, C, J, and earlier parisk systems
here but no K or D class machines. If you have particular model
numbers, I can ask some friends and see what they have.

kind regards,
jcr

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Re: OpenBSD/hppa

Mark Kettenis
> From: "J.C. Roberts" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 02:33:33 -0700
>
> On Tuesday 07 August 2007, Mark Kettenis wrote:
> > Over the last few weeks I've made some important improvements to the
> > OpenBSD/hppa port.  Support for newer B/C/J-class workstations was
> > added, and basically anything but the C8000 should just work.  I've
> > also fixed a rather critical bug, which makes machines with a PA-7200
> > CPU usable again (and makes machines with other CPU's much more
> > stable).  And last but not least, support for the NCR 53C720
> > Fast-Wide SCSI found on many hppa machines has been added to siop(4).
> >
> > With all these changes, I have reason to believe that most of the so
> > far unsupported D-class and K-class servers should just work, or will
> > work with just a small tweak to the code here and there.
> > Unfortunately I don't have such hardware myself, so if people have
> > access to one of these machines, could they give the latest snapshot
> > a go on them and send me (and [hidden email]) a copy of the dmesg?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mark
>
> I donated a C3000 and a J5000 awhile ago to help with hppa64 but I'm not
> sure where those machines are now. If you need them or access to them,
> you should talk to Theo or mickey or more likely, you already have
> access to them. I do have other B, C, J, and earlier parisk systems
> here but no K or D class machines. If you have particular model
> numbers, I can ask some friends and see what they have.

Rest assured, that C3000 and J5000 are put to good use by people even
if they run hppa instead of hppa64.  But I'm planning to get hppa64
running too on these boxes eventually.

Anyway, if you, or someone else on the list, has hppa machines with

"NCR 53C720 FW-SCSI" at gsc0 (type a sv 7c mod 0 hv 90) offset 830000 not configured

or

"FW SCSI" at mainbus0 (type 4 sv 89 mod 1 hv f0) offset 3f8c000 not configured

in their dmesg, could you please contact me off list?

Regarding the D-class and K-class model numbers, I'm interested in
(partial) dmesgs of all machines that don't have OpenBSD listed as a
supported OS on http://openpa.net/systems/index.html.  Basically, all
K-class models and all D-class models except the D-220/230 and
D-320/330.

Cheers,

Mark

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Re: OpenBSD/hppa

J.C. Roberts
In reply to this post by J.C. Roberts
On Wednesday 08 August 2007, Jacob Yocom-Piatt wrote:

> jc,
>
> now that i have a bit of "hobby" funds, i am accumulating other
> architectures that run openbsd and am interested in having an hppa
> machine. got any advice on a good one to acquire? leads on where to
> acquire them and for how much would also be welcome since they don't
> exactly pop up all over the place when googling.
>
> best regards,
> jake

Hi Jake,

Mark Kettenis is a better person to ask and I've cc'd him. Also, folks
on the lists might be curious about the same thing (I hope you don't
mind, and yes, like an idiot I previously posted my own off-list
message to the lists). None the less, you're query is missing necessary
details, namely your system/location requirements and acceptable cost
level. Some PARISC machines are extremely expensive.

The one machine that I actually have in use is my C3600, mainly because
it's in a usable location and already setup. The C35xx, C36xx and C37xx
systems are great general-purpose workstations. The bigger dual
processor systems of the J5xxx J6xxx and J7xxx classes are humongous
beasts. Just the shipping costs for getting the J5000 to Theo was a few
hundred dollars, similarly my J5600 sits unused on a low shelf these
days mainly because I have no way to move it with my hands as messed up
as they are.

There's also a difference between what is great PARISC hardware, and
what hardware actually has software support (outside of HPUX). For
example, the C8000 is a beautiful and powerful piece of hardware but
you must run HPUX. I'd love to find a C8000 loaded to the gills, but
then what would I do with it?  -In my case, namely hardware
design/layout with commercial tools, Cadence has dropped support for
PARISC/HPUX. Logically speaking, I supposedly don't *NEED* the best
PARISC workstation to do support testing with legacy code/systems. Even
if I had the room in my garage and the hands to work on it, I could not
justify the cost of getting one of the really bad-ass PARISC boxes.

Another issue (particularly with OpenBSD) is 64bit support, multi-core
support, and of course, multi-processor support. Whether or not it
actually matters depends on your uses/application.

At the moment, I have the following PARISC systems here:

700 Apollo
715/100
715/100XC
C110 (2)
C240
C3600
J5600

I believe I also still have the original "snake" here as well (the first
PARISC box) but if it's here, then buried under other systems in the
stacks. If it's not here, then I think I either sent it to mickey@ or
possibly I sold it... -it was a very old and interesting machine.

The sad part is I'm currently not allowed to lift anything over 5 pounds
(2KG) and that's a recent improvement over a few months ago when I
could not even hold a book. Moving systems from the stacks to the work
bench is just not possible. -And yes, miod@ (correctly and politely)
laughed at me for not keeping everything in a usable configuration when
he saw the pictures.

The best place for most people to find good parisc machines is ebay but
if you're lucky enough to have a reseller warehouse in your local area
you can usually find better deals with them. The silicon valley has
tons of resellers that deal with used gear, and often you can find
amazing deals particularly if you buy in bulk.

My original message was supposed to be off-list but I'm an idiot more
often than I'd like to admit. My reasoning is simple: if I send a
thank-you gift to a developer or to the project (a.k.a "donation") it's
nobody's business but my own. -Why the heck people insist on being
listed as a "donor" for merely (and correctly) showing their
appreciation is just weird. I could rant, but I won't.

Anyhow, if you really want to play with PARISC (or any particular
hardware), the very best thing you can do is check out the wanted
hardware list and privately talk to developers who are interested.
http://www.openbsd.org/want.html If you find something cool, buy at
least two (hopefully more), keep one for yourself and send the rest off
to the guys who write the code you use. -It's the one of the best ways
to really say "thank you" to the people doing all the work.

Lastly, keep in mind that our fearless developers live all over the
world and often hardware that has a trivial cost in your location may
be hellishly expensive in other places around the world. Often it's
cheaper to buy something in Country "X" and ship it to Country "Y" than
it is to just send the money. Yes, it's more of a pain in the ass but
when you can't code your way out of a wet paper bag, doing the trivial,
mindless yet important work is a good way to show your thanks and give
your support.

kind regards,
jcr

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Re: OpenBSD/hppa

J.C. Roberts
In reply to this post by Mark Kettenis
On Wednesday 08 August 2007, Mark Kettenis wrote:
> Rest assured, that C3000 and J5000 are put to good use by people even
> if they run hppa instead of hppa64.  But I'm planning to get hppa64
> running too on these boxes eventually.

:-)

>
> Anyway, if you, or someone else on the list, has hppa machines with
>
> "NCR 53C720 FW-SCSI" at gsc0 (type a sv 7c mod 0 hv 90) offset 830000
> not configured
>
> or
>
> "FW SCSI" at mainbus0 (type 4 sv 89 mod 1 hv f0) offset 3f8c000 not
> configured
>
> in their dmesg, could you please contact me off list?
>
> Regarding the D-class and K-class model numbers, I'm interested in
> (partial) dmesgs of all machines that don't have OpenBSD listed as a
> supported OS on http://openpa.net/systems/index.html.  Basically, all
> K-class models and all D-class models except the D-220/230 and
> D-320/330.

I doubt I personally have what you want but I'll see what can be found.
Since I'm unable to move the damn boxes to my work bench, I'll try to
find someone to help me next weekend.

kind regards,
jcr

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Re: OpenBSD/hppa

Mark Kettenis
In reply to this post by J.C. Roberts
> From: "J.C. Roberts" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 01:07:46 -0700
>
> On Wednesday 08 August 2007, Jacob Yocom-Piatt wrote:
> > jc,
> >
> > now that i have a bit of "hobby" funds, i am accumulating other
> > architectures that run openbsd and am interested in having an hppa
> > machine. got any advice on a good one to acquire? leads on where to
> > acquire them and for how much would also be welcome since they don't
> > exactly pop up all over the place when googling.
> >
> > best regards,
> > jake

Jake, Robert,


> Hi Jake,
>
> Mark Kettenis is a better person to ask and I've cc'd him. Also, folks
> on the lists might be curious about the same thing (I hope you don't
> mind, and yes, like an idiot I previously posted my own off-list
> message to the lists).

Yeah, that had me a bit confused ;).

> None the less, you're query is missing necessary details, namely
> your system/location requirements and acceptable cost level. Some
> PARISC machines are extremely expensive.

But since HP has stopped development of PA-RISC in favour of Itanium,
people are throwing out boxes, so there may be some excellent bargains
around.

> The one machine that I actually have in use is my C3600, mainly because
> it's in a usable location and already setup. The C35xx, C36xx and C37xx
> systems are great general-purpose workstations. The bigger dual
> processor systems of the J5xxx J6xxx and J7xxx classes are humongous
> beasts. Just the shipping costs for getting the J5000 to Theo was a few
> hundred dollars, similarly my J5600 sits unused on a low shelf these
> days mainly because I have no way to move it with my hands as messed up
> as they are.

Actually, while the J5x00 and J7x500 are humongous beasts, the J6xxx
machines are 2U machines that can be racked or used as a workstation.
These are most defenitely the machines to look for, especially the
J6700 and J6750.

The Bxxxx and Cxxxx come in a fairly large mini-tower case.  They have
somewhat more room for expansion.  Again the C3700 and C3750 are tha
fastest machines here.


>
> Another issue (particularly with OpenBSD) is 64bit support, multi-core
> support, and of course, multi-processor support. Whether or not it
> actually matters depends on your uses/application.
>
> At the moment, I have the following PARISC systems here:
>
> 700 Apollo
> 715/100
> 715/100XC
> C110 (2)
> C240
> C3600
> J5600
>
> I believe I also still have the original "snake" here as well (the first
> PARISC box) but if it's here, then buried under other systems in the
> stacks. If it's not here, then I think I either sent it to mickey@ or
> possibly I sold it... -it was a very old and interesting machine.
>
> The sad part is I'm currently not allowed to lift anything over 5 pounds
> (2KG) and that's a recent improvement over a few months ago when I
> could not even hold a book. Moving systems from the stacks to the work
> bench is just not possible. -And yes, miod@ (correctly and politely)
> laughed at me for not keeping everything in a usable configuration when
> he saw the pictures.

Sorry to hear that.  Anyway, the C110's now run nicely again and the
Fast-Wide SCSI works on them.  All the other ones have been tested
recently too, so leave them on that stack for now.  I hope your
physical condition continues to improveme, such that you can plan with
them again in the not too distant future.

Cheers,

Mark