OpenBSD as base OS for Virtualization

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OpenBSD as base OS for Virtualization

Ruslanas Gžibovskis
Hi team,

I have tried to search something on the web then OBSD mailing lists...
No confident answer was found.

I want to setup Virtualization server.
Currently I am using xen with Linux + ZFS...
And it uses files instead of ZFS volumes...

So question is:
What Virtualization solutions OpenBSD support?

I know about jails 100% are available on OpenBSD.
Maybe VirtualBox,  is it "native" support?
Maybe bhyve? I know it's quite new, but it sounds cool. :)

I am searching for something like Solaris Containers.

My requirements, are to support WiFi host or forward my PCIexpress 1 so VM.
VM - be able to run Debian.
My HW is:
CPU: i7-3770S
Mother Board: DZ77GA-70K / DZ77GAL-70K
WiFi:  Atheros Communications Inc. AR9300 Wireless LAN adaptor [168c:0030]
(rev 01)
  Kernel driver in use: ath9k

Thank you for your time!

Sorry for bad English,
And have a nice $day_time! :)

--
Ruslanas Gžibovskis
+370 6030 7030

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Re: OpenBSD as base OS for Virtualization

Steven McDonald
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 13:44:47 +0200
Ruslanas Gžibovskis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So question is:
> What Virtualization solutions OpenBSD support?

Anything that runs as a userspace process in non-accelerated mode and
has been ported to OpenBSD (QEMU, for example). There is no support for
Xen, nor hardware acceleration (VT-x or AMD-V).

> I know about jails 100% are available on OpenBSD.

Jails aren't available on OpenBSD. There is chroot; whether or not that
is sufficient for your needs depends on your goal.

> Maybe VirtualBox,  is it "native" support?
> Maybe bhyve? I know it's quite new, but it sounds cool. :)

VirtualBox might work; if by "native" support you mean using hardware
virtualisation, then no. bhyve is a FreeBSD (not OpenBSD) project.

> I am searching for something like Solaris Containers.
>
> My requirements, are to support WiFi host or forward my PCIexpress 1
> so VM. VM - be able to run Debian.

This seems to be contradictory. If you want to use OpenBSD to run a
completely different OS as a guest, you want something quite different
from Solaris Containers.

You should consider what you're trying to accomplish and then figure
out which tools serve that job best, rather than starting with the
notion of using virtualisation and trying to fit that to your goal.

> Sorry for bad English,

No problem, it wasn't all that bad. :)

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Re: OpenBSD as base OS for Virtualization

Jiri B-2
In reply to this post by Ruslanas Gžibovskis
On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 01:44:47PM +0200, Ruslanas Gžibovskis wrote:
> So question is:
> What Virtualization solutions OpenBSD support?

OpenBSD supports SPARC ldomains, but you have to have
SPARC hw :P

There is support of some virtio devices (vio, vioblock,
"broken" vioscsi, vio balloon...) which are supported by
qemu/kvm, xen.

There's at least one developer using ESXi thus he/they
take care of needed drivers (vmx).

Even I like ESXi the most, I would go with KVM or Xen
if x86 HW is used. Why? ESXi has very restricted features
in free version. KVM/Xen "distributions" offer you
much more features (live migration, etc...) and they
are also OSS.

Xen got finally some nice web ui (watching just pictures)
https://xen-orchestra.com/#/...

j.

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Re: OpenBSD as base OS for Virtualization

Jorge Gabriel Lopez Paramount
In reply to this post by Ruslanas Gžibovskis
> I want to setup Virtualization server.
> Currently I am using xen with Linux + ZFS...
> And it uses files instead of ZFS volumes...

Since I'm new to OpenBSD I won't tell you what OpenBSD supports for  
virtualization but what works for me, hope this helps. Keep in mind my  
lack of experience in OpenBSD, my (hopefully) long experience with  
Linux and that I'm in the middle to move from Linux to OpenBSD.

I'm using Debian Wheezy for physical servers and for virtual ones too,  
for the physical ones I have the minimal installation since everything  
runs into the virtual machines. I use KVM and LVM, I really like them  
and I would be happy to see something like that on OpenBSD.

All the OpenBSD servers I have are virtual, some with KVM and a few  
ones with QEMU, the ones with QEMU run good enough and with no issues  
despite QEMU being older, the ones running with KVM fly.

This means to me not having a hard time with the hardware since the  
only purpose of the physical servers is running the virtual ones, and  
being able to run Linux and OpenBSD together, making it easy to  
replace Linux servers by OpenBSD servers one by one, not having to  
replace all or nothing at once.

--
Best regards,
Jorge Lopez.



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Re: OpenBSD as base OS for Virtualization

Gene-46
In reply to this post by Jiri B-2
On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Jiri B <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 01:44:47PM +0200, Ruslanas Gžibovskis wrote:
> > So question is:
> > What Virtualization solutions OpenBSD support?
>
> OpenBSD supports SPARC ldomains, but you have to have
> SPARC hw :P
>
> There is support of some virtio devices (vio, vioblock,
> "broken" vioscsi, vio balloon...) which are supported by
> qemu/kvm, xen.
>
> There's at least one developer using ESXi thus he/they
> take care of needed drivers (vmx).
>
> Even I like ESXi the most, I would go with KVM or Xen
> if x86 HW is used. Why? ESXi has very restricted features
> in free version. KVM/Xen "distributions" offer you
> much more features (live migration, etc...) and they
> are also OSS.
>
> Xen got finally some nice web ui (watching just pictures)
> https://xen-orchestra.com/#/...
>

Xen Orchestra was not created by nor is it supported by the Xen Project.

There are a lot of different front-end managers for Xen out there.

-Gene

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Re: OpenBSD as base OS for Virtualization

Ruslanas Gžibovskis
Thanks to all.

Hi Steven,

You mentioned "QEMU, for example", so is there some more examples?
Solaris Containers, have ability to use branded zones, and there we can
launch Linux Gernel and setup Debian.
It also integrates and fully uses ZFS features, yes it's native, born in
Solaris
:) what I miss in lxc... :(

Yes I know, that bhyve is a FreeBSD project, and listen to:
http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#42


Hi Jiri,

Is it something similar to solaris LDoms? On SPARC HW? Just interested.

vmware ESXi ... I was using it, but once my VMware hanged once in a VM
I have mounted two iso files and started copying ISO content to VM... It
ate
all my RAM and then all my CPU... and purple screen of death...

QEMU I was trying, but... what? max 2GB RAM? at least in Linux env...
Does QEMU has this limitation in OpenBSD?

To All again:

What FS supported by OpenBSD? UFS? ZFS?


And in conclusion: chroot and qemu for virtualization on OpenBSD?
sounds really poor... :(

On 14 March 2015 at 20:39, Gene <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Jiri B <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 01:44:47PM +0200, Ruslanas Gžibovskis wrote:
>> > So question is:
>> > What Virtualization solutions OpenBSD support?
>>
>> OpenBSD supports SPARC ldomains, but you have to have
>> SPARC hw :P
>>
>> There is support of some virtio devices (vio, vioblock,
>> "broken" vioscsi, vio balloon...) which are supported by
>> qemu/kvm, xen.
>>
>> There's at least one developer using ESXi thus he/they
>> take care of needed drivers (vmx).
>>
>> Even I like ESXi the most, I would go with KVM or Xen
>> if x86 HW is used. Why? ESXi has very restricted features
>> in free version. KVM/Xen "distributions" offer you
>> much more features (live migration, etc...) and they
>> are also OSS.
>>
>> Xen got finally some nice web ui (watching just pictures)
>> https://xen-orchestra.com/#/...
>>
>
> Xen Orchestra was not created by nor is it supported by the Xen Project.
>
> There are a lot of different front-end managers for Xen out there.
>
> -Gene
>



--
Ruslanas Gžibovskis
+370 6030 7030

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Re: OpenBSD as base OS for Virtualization

Stuart Henderson
On 2015-03-15, Ruslanas Gžibovskis <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Is it something similar to solaris LDoms? On SPARC HW? Just interested.

Yes. it is exactly LDoms, this has been supported for a while now.

http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20121214153413
http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi/OpenBSD-current/man8/sparc64/ldomctl.8?query=ldomctl&arch=sparc64

> What FS supported by OpenBSD? UFS? ZFS?

UFS/UFS2. The ZFS license/patent situation makes it a non-starter for
inclusion in OpenBSD.

> And in conclusion: chroot and qemu for virtualization on OpenBSD?
> sounds really poor... :(

chroot isn't really anything to do with virtualization.

QEMU on OpenBSD is emulation rather than what would normally be called
"virtualization", it's very useful for testing but too slow really for
production use.

So, for now, your current options are sun4v ldoms with ldomctl, or use
another OS as host (but OpenBSD is quite well-suited as a guest).

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Re: OpenBSD as base OS for Virtualization

Jiri B-2
In reply to this post by Ruslanas Gžibovskis
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 10:28:15AM +0200, Ruslanas Gžibovskis wrote:
> You mentioned "QEMU, for example", so is there some more examples?

I don't want to be ugly but have you tried to do your homework
at least? Check qemu in ports, there's README file as an example.

> Solaris Containers, have ability to use branded zones, and there we can
> launch Linux Gernel and setup Debian.
> It also integrates and fully uses ZFS features, yes it's native, born in
> Solaris
> :) what I miss in lxc... :(

I believe nobody would stop you to implement zones/containers
for OpenBSD, hahaha. But reality is, nothing such that exists
now.

OpenBSD is primarily an "UNIX" OS, not virtualization host
or embedded OS. First get the project focus before doing
strong conclusions ("what a poor virtualization support" as
an example...).

j.

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Re: OpenBSD as base OS for Virtualization

Mikael-9
If someone wanted to hack together a Bhyve OBSD port would be complete
awesomeness.

Even as a custom patch only for the stupid guys like me who love this
unsafe virtualization stuff that so many use now. It would be awesome.

I know the whole virtualization thing is crap from a strict security point
of view but I like to take the risk, and OBSD certainly is a better
codebase to do this host stuff in than other systems. Probably some people
would be happy to donate some bucks to the person who wanted to implement
and maintain it.

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Re: OpenBSD as base OS for Virtualization

bofh-6
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Mikael <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I know the whole virtualization thing is crap from a strict security point
> of view but I like to take the risk, and OBSD certainly is a better
> codebase to do this host stuff in than other systems. Probably some people
> would be happy to donate some bucks to the person who wanted to implement
> and maintain it.
>

Do you hear what you sound like?  If only someone would do what I want for
me, that'd be great.  Yeah, if someone else were to give money to make that
happen, even better!  Oh, it's not secure, and therefore is against
OpenBSD's principles?  Yeah, but me me me.


--
http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
"This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity."  --
Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation.
"Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or
internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory
where smoking on the job is permitted."  -- Gene Spafford
learn french:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30v_g83VHK4

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Re: OpenBSD as base OS for Virtualization

pixelfairy
You might want xen and run openbsd as dom0

On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 12:01 PM, bofh <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Mikael <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I know the whole virtualization thing is crap from a strict security point
>> of view but I like to take the risk, and OBSD certainly is a better
>> codebase to do this host stuff in than other systems. Probably some people
>> would be happy to donate some bucks to the person who wanted to implement
>> and maintain it.
>>
>
> Do you hear what you sound like?  If only someone would do what I want for
> me, that'd be great.  Yeah, if someone else were to give money to make that
> happen, even better!  Oh, it's not secure, and therefore is against
> OpenBSD's principles?  Yeah, but me me me.
>
>
> --
> http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
> "This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity."  --
> Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation.
> "Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or
> internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory
> where smoking on the job is permitted."  -- Gene Spafford
> learn french:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30v_g83VHK4

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Re: OpenBSD as base OS for Virtualization

Jiri B-2
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 10:22:10PM -0700, pixelfairy wrote:
> You might want xen and run openbsd as dom0

So port it, otherwise have nice (wet) dreams :P

j.