Narcicism?

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Re: Narcicism?

Eric Oyen-2
so true.

on another note, I recently had some help getting linux up and working on a
macbook g3 )lombard) but ran into some problems with the dubs interprocess
communications system. I was wondering if ORCA (a python based screenreader
for the blind on the gnome desktop environment) would work in X on openbsd.

I may also have to set up an OpenBSD vm with ssh ready to go so I can run the
setup from a terminal. I might even check into using that same G3 as a
testbed.

thoughts?

-eric

On Dec 1, 2011, at 4:03 PM, Richard Thornton wrote:

> I have known geniuses who were computer illiterate.
>
> On Dec 1, 2011 5:58 PM, "Eric Oyen" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> like any other population, we have our parrots, non-thinkers, OCD,
Bi-polar,
> stupid or the otherwise normal. we also have more than a few extremely
> intelligent people.
>
> one thing I have noticed (because I also suffer from it) is that more
> intelligent you are, the worse your interpersonal skills tend to be. mow, I
> happen to be fairly intelligent (somewhere north of the upper 130's) , but
I
> am not so far above the normals that I can't understand them. I have known
> people so intelligent that they have virtually no understanding of how
their
> fellow human beings work (and I can understand that position as well).
>
> the point I am  hoping to make is that we all have our quirks, behavioral
> problems and skills (and that is fine by me). all that is needed is a
little
> understanding and a very thick skin.
>
> -eric
>
> On Dec 1, 2011, at 12:28 AM, John Tate wrote:
>
> > I think I've found a bug in the OpenBSD crowd. They bug the hell out of
me
> > and my little mistakes.
> >
> > I am not talking about people who actually have a solution, but I can't
> > seem to ask anything on this list without parrots coming along picking on
> > me. I think some people just hang out here because it's the most anal
bunch
> > of hackers ever, in recorded history. What are your experiences?
> >
> > Is it true that occasionally we attract people who either love bullying
or
> > are just lazy and pretending to be one of the clever?
> >
> > It just figures some of these people sit on the list, and email you
poorly

> > researched crap with no answers contain.
> >
> > If you hate a question, it truly doesn't belong, bug me.
> >
> > But if you just can't answer a question, ignore it.
> >
> > John Tate.
> >
> > Note: Yes, it's not my list.
> >
> > --
> > www.johntate.org

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Re: Narcicism?

Daniel Bolgheroni-7
In reply to this post by John Tate-8
On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 02:25:06AM +1100, John Tate wrote:
>
> I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru
> and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and
> Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put
> up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I
> started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that
> age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I
> know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still
> learning.

I feel strange everytime someone says they love OpenBSD.

--
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dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

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Re: Narcicism?

RichardET
In reply to this post by John Tate-8
I came to openbsd only recently trying to find a modern OS which will run on my old sun blade 100.  I wanted to use a linux but the only current linux for sparc64 is debian 6.03 and it seems incompatible with the rage xl video on the sun blade  giving me out of sync errors.  Openbsd seems to have  better drivers since it works fine.  R will not work though and this annoys me.  Also no recent browser support.  Seamonkey 2.04 is old.

Daniel Bolgheroni <[hidden email]> wrote:

>On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 02:25:06AM +1100, John Tate wrote:
>>
>> I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. I am a bit of a guru
>> and do my own Kerberos and such on an all BSD/Linux network. OpenBSD and
>> Debian Linux. I love OpenBSD, I'm a bit weird because I use bash. I can put
>> up with being made fun of. At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I
>> started learning C++ as well. I failed to apprehend it properly at that
>> age, but at an older age I relearned it well. I am the guru sort of guy, I
>> know a hell of a lot but I'm still connecting it and in that sense still
>> learning.
>
>I feel strange everytime someone says they love OpenBSD.
>
>--
>This message has been scanned for viruses and
>dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>believed to be clean.

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Re: Narcicism?

Rudolf Leitgeb
Am Freitag, 2. Dezember 2011, 06:13:42 schrieb Richard Thornton:
> I came to openbsd only recently trying to find a modern OS which will run on
> my old sun blade 100.  I wanted to use a linux but the only current linux
> for sparc64 is debian 6.03 and it seems incompatible with the rage xl video
> on the sun blade  giving me out of sync errors.  Openbsd seems to have
> better drivers since it works fine.  R will not work though and this annoys
> me.  Also no recent browser support.  Seamonkey 2.04 is old.

And in common tradition hoardes of OpenBSD devs shall come to the rescue
and spend hours of unpaid time so you won't have to spend US$300 on
a new computer. :rolleyes:

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Re: Narcicism?

RichardET
Not looking for free support or any support.  This box is merely a toy.  I
have two laptops both 64 bit for serious work.
On Dec 2, 2011 6:34 AM, "Rudolf Leitgeb" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Am Freitag, 2. Dezember 2011, 06:13:42 schrieb Richard Thornton:
> > I came to openbsd only recently trying to find a modern OS which will
> run on
> > my old sun blade 100.  I wanted to use a linux but the only current linux
> > for sparc64 is debian 6.03 and it seems incompatible with the rage xl
> video
> > on the sun blade  giving me out of sync errors.  Openbsd seems to have
> > better drivers since it works fine.  R will not work though and this
> annoys
> > me.  Also no recent browser support.  Seamonkey 2.04 is old.
>
> And in common tradition hoardes of OpenBSD devs shall come to the rescue
> and spend hours of unpaid time so you won't have to spend US$300 on
> a new computer. :rolleyes:

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Hardware Compatibilty on different *nixes

Tobias Crefeld-2
In reply to this post by RichardET
Am Fri, 02 Dec 2011 06:13:42 -0500
schrieb Richard Thornton <[hidden email]>:

> I wanted to use a linux but the only current linux for sparc64 is
> debian 6.03 and it seems incompatible with the rage xl video on the
> sun blade  giving me out of sync errors.  Openbsd seems to have
> better drivers since it works fine.

I don't think that there is a general rule which OS supports sparc
better.

On the one hand I have a Blade-150-workstation that works fine and
stable with OpenBSD for 2..3 years now.

On the other hand I tried to setup OpenBSD on some V240/V245 and ended
with kernel panics during installation process. And on the same
hardware Debian-5 works fine for years - or better "worked" as we're
uninstalling these old servers now due to the energy consumption to
keep them running.


RU,
 Tobias.

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Re: Narcicism?

Anonymous Remailer (austria)
In reply to this post by RichardET
> I came to openbsd only recently trying to find a modern OS which will run
> on my old sun blade 100.

Net and FreeBSD probably also support it. Depending on what you want to do
with your system I would recommend OpenBSD or FreeBSD. FreeBSD will have
more current apps (your complaint below) and is a better desktop if you
define a good desktop by more apps and more current apps. I don't need the
latest of anything so OpenBSD works fine for me. However on SPARC I really
like Solaris for a server or desktop. OpenBSD would be better for an
applicance like a router, firewall etc. if you have an extra SPARC box. Then
again Solaris 10 will go away but OpenBSD hopefully is here to stay.

> I wanted to use a linux but the only current linux for sparc64 is debian
> 6.03

Gentoo/Funtoo also run on SPARC64.

> Openbsd seems to have  better drivers since it works fine.

OpenBSD always works fine on everything I have tried it on.

> annoys me.  Also no recent browser support.  Seamonkey 2.04 is old.

What about Solaris 10? The latest Firefox builds are available and so are
very recent copies of almost every app. I build everything else from source
though. If you're going to run an old box you will either need to accept
living with an old OS and old apps or learn to build whatever you want from
source. In some cases the latter isn't possible though.

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Re: Narcicism?

Anonymous Remailer (austria)
In reply to this post by Rudolf Leitgeb
> And in common tradition hoardes of OpenBSD devs shall come to the rescue
> and spend hours of unpaid time so you won't have to spend US$300 on
> a new computer. :rolleyes:

Fuck you man! Who needs a new computer? Blades rule! ;-)

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Re: Narcicism?

Dmitrij D. Czarkoff-2
In reply to this post by David Riley-3
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 9:09 PM, David Riley <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Dec 1, 2011, at 2:39 PM, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:25 PM, John Tate <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13.
>>> <...>
>>> At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well.
>>
>> Are You sure? You wrote C++ Linux kernel code in 2000? Really?
>
> To be fair, he didn't say that.

Being an XYZ hacker means programming XYZ in non-trivial, advanced
ways, doesn't it? As he only mentioned C++, I assume that he only knew
C++ by then. So, if the only programming language he knew was C++ and
he programmed Linux, I conclude that he did his Linux hacking in C++.
Where am I wrong?

--
Dmitrij D. Czarkoff

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Re: Narcicism?

Daniel Wilkins
On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 9:09 PM, David Riley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Dec 1, 2011, at 2:39 PM, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:25 PM, John Tate <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13.
>>>> <...>
>>>> At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well.
>>>
>>> Are You sure? You wrote C++ Linux kernel code in 2000? Really?
>>
>> To be fair, he didn't say that.
>
> Being an XYZ hacker means programming XYZ in non-trivial, advanced
> ways, doesn't it? As he only mentioned C++, I assume that he only knew
> C++ by then. So, if the only programming language he knew was C++ and
> he programmed Linux, I conclude that he did his Linux hacking in C++.
> Where am I wrong?
>
> --
> Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
>
>
I don't think linux actually contained C++ at that point(though it does
now, much to Linus' annoyance, from the bits of the mailing list I've
seen.)

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Re: Narcicism?

Dmitrij D. Czarkoff-2
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Tekk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I don't think linux actually contained C++ at that point(though it does now,
> much to Linus' annoyance, from the bits of the mailing list I've seen.)

http://kerneltrap.org/node/2067

--
Dmitrij D. Czarkoff

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Re: Narcicism?

Rudolf Leitgeb
In reply to this post by Anonymous Remailer (austria)
Am Freitag, den 02.12.2011, 17:40 +0100 schrieb Anonymous Remailer
(austria):
> Fuck you man! Who needs a new computer? Blades rule! ;-)

The idea of OpenBSD, as far as I have understood this, is that
you rule the computer and not that you are ruled by a computer,
much less a blade :-P

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Re: Narcicism?

David Riley-3
In reply to this post by Dmitrij D. Czarkoff-2
On Dec 2, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 9:09 PM, David Riley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Dec 1, 2011, at 2:39 PM, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:25 PM, John Tate <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13.
>>>> <...>
>>>> At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well.
>>>
>>> Are You sure? You wrote C++ Linux kernel code in 2000? Really?
>>
>> To be fair, he didn't say that.
>
> Being an XYZ hacker means programming XYZ in non-trivial, advanced
> ways, doesn't it? As he only mentioned C++, I assume that he only knew
> C++ by then. So, if the only programming language he knew was C++ and
> he programmed Linux, I conclude that he did his Linux hacking in C++.
> Where am I wrong?

I guess I'm running on the assumption that since C++ is a superset of C (with
caveats, of course, some of which are why they're not Linus' preference for
the kernel), one has to know C before knowing C++ (or at least as a product of
knowing it).  That, of course, does not mean one is *good* at C; I've seen
plenty of people crippled in writing straight procedural code because they
never bothered to learn how to do it right.

The other inference you could make is that he already knew C when he started
"hacking Linux" and started learning C++ at the same time.  That's the
conclusion I drew.  You could easily draw both conclusions, I guess, since the
wording was a smidge ambiguous.


- Dave

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Re: Narcicism?

Daniel Wilkins
In reply to this post by Dmitrij D. Czarkoff-2
still no C++, good to know

On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Tekk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I don't think linux actually contained C++ at that point(though it does now,
>> much to Linus' annoyance, from the bits of the mailing list I've seen.)
>
> http://kerneltrap.org/node/2067
>
> --
> Dmitrij D. Czarkoff

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Re: Narcicism?

Daniel Wilkins
In reply to this post by Dmitrij D. Czarkoff-2
So still no C++, good to know

On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Tekk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I don't think linux actually contained C++ at that point(though it does now,
>> much to Linus' annoyance, from the bits of the mailing list I've seen.)
>
> http://kerneltrap.org/node/2067
>
> --
> Dmitrij D. Czarkoff

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Re: Narcicism?

Dmitrij D. Czarkoff-2
In reply to this post by David Riley-3
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:11 PM, David Riley <[hidden email]> wrote:
> one has to know C before knowing C++

Well, I don't know how it happens in US or Canada, but in Russia
ordinarily people first learn C++, and then (may be) C. Yes, knowing
C++ implies substantial knowledge of C, but the point still stands. He
didn't say a word about C, which would have been more relevant, so I
assume that he was exaggerating his involvement with Linux and
hacking.

--
Dmitrij D. Czarkoff

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Re: Narcicism?

David Riley-3
On Dec 2, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:11 PM, David Riley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> one has to know C before knowing C++
>
> Well, I don't know how it happens in US or Canada, but in Russia
> ordinarily people first learn C++, and then (may be) C. Yes, knowing
> C++ implies substantial knowledge of C, but the point still stands. He
> didn't say a word about C, which would have been more relevant, so I
> assume that he was exaggerating his involvement with Linux and
> hacking.

The way it typically works in the US is that no one learns anything of any
value unless they do it themselves. :-) Our high schools are still teaching
Java as a first language in some cases, which hopefully in Russia gets you
dragged out and shot.

- Dave

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Re: Narcicism?

Daniel Wilkins
In reply to this post by Dmitrij D. Czarkoff-2
It's that way in the US too, afaict(C is 'deprecated')

On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:11 PM, David Riley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> one has to know C before knowing C++
>
> Well, I don't know how it happens in US or Canada, but in Russia
> ordinarily people first learn C++, and then (may be) C. Yes, knowing
> C++ implies substantial knowledge of C, but the point still stands. He
> didn't say a word about C, which would have been more relevant, so I
> assume that he was exaggerating his involvement with Linux and
> hacking.
>
> --
> Dmitrij D. Czarkoff

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Re: Narcicism?

RichardET
In reply to this post by David Riley-3
All this talk about who is a bigger hacker is like muscle flexing in the
mirror.
On Dec 2, 2011 4:29 PM, "David Riley" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Dec 2, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:11 PM, David Riley <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >> one has to know C before knowing C++
> >
> > Well, I don't know how it happens in US or Canada, but in Russia
> > ordinarily people first learn C++, and then (may be) C. Yes, knowing
> > C++ implies substantial knowledge of C, but the point still stands. He
> > didn't say a word about C, which would have been more relevant, so I
> > assume that he was exaggerating his involvement with Linux and
> > hacking.
>
> The way it typically works in the US is that no one learns anything of any
> value unless they do it themselves. :-) Our high schools are still teaching
> Java as a first language in some cases, which hopefully in Russia gets you
> dragged out and shot.
>
> - Dave

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Re: Narcicism?

RichardET
In reply to this post by Daniel Wilkins
I wonder how much c++ the Russian programmer from Goldman is doing these
days?!
On Dec 2, 2011 4:35 PM, "Tekk" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It's that way in the US too, afaict(C is 'deprecated')
>
> On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote:
>
>  On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:11 PM, David Riley <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> one has to know C before knowing C++
>>>
>>
>> Well, I don't know how it happens in US or Canada, but in Russia
>> ordinarily people first learn C++, and then (may be) C. Yes, knowing
>> C++ implies substantial knowledge of C, but the point still stands. He
>> didn't say a word about C, which would have been more relevant, so I
>> assume that he was exaggerating his involvement with Linux and
>> hacking.
>>
>> --
>> Dmitrij D. Czarkoff

1234