My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

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My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Daniel Villarreal
I was posting to [hidden email], but only SPAM seems to function on
that list?

http://youcanlinux.wordpress.com/my-thoughts-on-openbsd/

31 Aug 2011

I was driving home Sunday and there was a Lamborghini Diablo VT driving
nearby. I caught up to it and it made an unusual soundb&. very distinctive,
quite unlike anything Ibve ever heard beforeb& it was smooth and yet it
wasnbt anything youbd think to ever expect from a plain automobile. It was
a
raspy sound, a beckoning sound. I first pondered how much the fine motorcar
might have cost, then I thought, it must cost a lot to keep that motor
finely tuned. I thought about the quality and attention-to-detail that the
Italian workers put into making this fine motorcar.

I thought I had damaged my dual-core system about a month ago, at least. It
wouldnbt start up and I tried pushing the power button and no luck. I
decided to buy very inexpensive testing equipment. I didnbt like the idea
of
waiting for it to arrive, but it finally did. I had never done this before,
and imagine my surprise when the power supply started up! I connected it all
back together and was glad I hadnbt re-tasked the hard drive and thrown
away
my partimage backup files. So i was updating Fedora and it crashed, for the
second time, after an update. I think of the uncompromising quality of that
fine Italian motorcar and I think of a similar attention-to-detail of
OpenBSD. Yeah, so what if i drive an old beat-up car, it works great for me
and never has to be rebooted and it does what I expect, it gets me from one
place to another. I want reliability and quality from an OS. Itbs not
really
all that valid to compare that Lamborghini motorcar with the OpenBSD
operating system, except to say that in both cases I think the
uncompromising commitment to quality and attention-to-detail shine through,
Although one canbt convert a Ford car to a Lamborghini motorcar, you can
transform your computer to a high-performance machine. You can download
OpenBSD for free, and although you arenbt required to spend the $50 to buy
a
CD set, if you consider that it goes to defray operating and development
costs, itbs a drop in the bucket compared to a tune-up for a Lamborghini,
and isnbt it important to keep your computer running at peak efficiency ?

Regards,
Daniel Villarreal

http://youcanlinux.org/

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Tobias Crefeld-2
Am Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:48:56 -0400
schrieb Daniel Villarreal <[hidden email]>:

> I was posting to [hidden email], but only SPAM seems to
> function on that list?

Well, for whatever reason it ended at [hidden email] ...

Beside the question what kind of "encryption" your MUA is using...

> http://youcanlinux.wordpress.com/my-thoughts-on-openbsd/
[..]
> through, Although one canbt convert a Ford car to a Lamborghini
> motorcar, you can transform your computer to a high-performance
> machine.
[..]

...your comparison works in another way as well: A Lamborghini is a car
like Jaguar, etc. that you never would use as your primary
transportation tool as every repair will take a unpredictable amount of
time at specialised garages that are 300 miles away.

Your primary vehicle will be something that is reliable, commonly used
and well supported. Especially if you need it to make money with it. I
believe that one of the major disadvantages of OpenBSD is the lack of
installation support / guarantee by hardware suppliers. This could
smash your whole roll-out timetable, so our "multi purpose trucks"
will always run an Enterprise Linux.

But no doubt: Some applications like packet filtering / manipulation,
ALG or routing run pretty smart on OpenBSD. Meanwhile we circumvent
the problems caused by the lack of hardware supplier's support by
abstracting hardware dependencies with the help of virtualizing
platforms like VirtualBox (offering some OpenBSD-templates) or ProxMox
(KVM / "Other").


Regards,
 Tobias.

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Daniel Gracia
You guys aren't serious, are you?

Lambos are shiny and fast crap that gets on fire easily -almost the same
for any italian car/bike out on the market; maybe not Fiat-. And that's
just the opposite OpenBSD seeks.

VirtualBox solving a problem? Not in my world.

El 01/09/2011 11:55, Tobias Crefeld escribiC3:

> Am Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:48:56 -0400
> schrieb Daniel Villarreal<[hidden email]>:
>
>> I was posting to [hidden email], but only SPAM seems to
>> function on that list?
>
> Well, for whatever reason it ended at [hidden email] ...
>
> Beside the question what kind of "encryption" your MUA is using...
>
>> http://youcanlinux.wordpress.com/my-thoughts-on-openbsd/
> [..]
>> through, Although one canbt convert a Ford car to a Lamborghini
>> motorcar, you can transform your computer to a high-performance
>> machine.
> [..]
>
> ...your comparison works in another way as well: A Lamborghini is a car
> like Jaguar, etc. that you never would use as your primary
> transportation tool as every repair will take a unpredictable amount of
> time at specialised garages that are 300 miles away.
>
> Your primary vehicle will be something that is reliable, commonly used
> and well supported. Especially if you need it to make money with it. I
> believe that one of the major disadvantages of OpenBSD is the lack of
> installation support / guarantee by hardware suppliers. This could
> smash your whole roll-out timetable, so our "multi purpose trucks"
> will always run an Enterprise Linux.
>
> But no doubt: Some applications like packet filtering / manipulation,
> ALG or routing run pretty smart on OpenBSD. Meanwhile we circumvent
> the problems caused by the lack of hardware supplier's support by
> abstracting hardware dependencies with the help of virtualizing
> platforms like VirtualBox (offering some OpenBSD-templates) or ProxMox
> (KVM / "Other").
>
>
> Regards,
>   Tobias.

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Wayne Oliver-2
On 01 Sep 2011, at 12:37 PM, Daniel Gracia wrote:

> You guys aren't serious, are you?
>
> Lambos are shiny and fast crap that gets on fire easily -almost the same for
any italian car/bike out on the market; maybe not Fiat-. And that's just the
opposite OpenBSD seeks.
>
> VirtualBox solving a problem? Not in my world.
>

8<

I love my Alfa, let's not get personal ;-)

Virtualbox = nice testing/POC tool.

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Daniel Gracia
Lambo, Ferrari, Maserati, Aprilia... As you are an owner, you should
know their historic -let's call it- 'temperamental' behaviour ;-)

VirtualBox can make some testings comfy, sure; that not solves any real
problem in a real world, but you mileage may vary, of course. Just my
opinion from my hairy world :-D

El 01/09/2011 13:07, Wayne Oliver escribis:

> On 01 Sep 2011, at 12:37 PM, Daniel Gracia wrote:
>
>> You guys aren't serious, are you?
>>
>> Lambos are shiny and fast crap that gets on fire easily -almost the same for
> any italian car/bike out on the market; maybe not Fiat-. And that's just the
> opposite OpenBSD seeks.
>>
>> VirtualBox solving a problem? Not in my world.
>>
>
> 8<
>
> I love my Alfa, let's not get personal ;-)
>
> Virtualbox = nice testing/POC tool.

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Wayne Oliver
Indeed, they have a. let's say colourful nature/history

but that's me, no more the off topic posts. :-)


On 01 Sep 2011, at 1:23 PM, Daniel Gracia wrote:

> Lambo, Ferrari, Maserati, Aprilia... As you are an owner, you should know
their historic -let's call it- 'temperamental' behaviour ;-)
>
> VirtualBox can make some testings comfy, sure; that not solves any real
problem in a real world, but you mileage may vary, of course. Just my opinion
from my hairy world :-D
>
> El 01/09/2011 13:07, Wayne Oliver escribis:
>> On 01 Sep 2011, at 12:37 PM, Daniel Gracia wrote:
>>
>>> You guys aren't serious, are you?
>>>
>>> Lambos are shiny and fast crap that gets on fire easily -almost the same
for
>> any italian car/bike out on the market; maybe not Fiat-. And that's just
the

>> opposite OpenBSD seeks.
>>>
>>> VirtualBox solving a problem? Not in my world.
>>>
>>
>> 8<
>>
>> I love my Alfa, let's not get personal ;-)
>>
>> Virtualbox = nice testing/POC tool.

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Daniel Villarreal
In reply to this post by Daniel Gracia
Seeing and hearing that Lamborghini was a pleasant surprise. I'd also be
interested in checking out one of the Tesla motor cars.

Daniel, what you think is a nice exotic sports car ?

Me gusta tambiC)n discutir alimentaciC3n.

So maybe OpenBSD isn't all flashy and gaudy like that Lamborghini, but then
I wasn't concentrating on that.

Saludos,
Daniel Villarreal



On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 6:37 AM, Daniel Gracia <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> You guys aren't serious, are you?
>
> Lambos are shiny and fast crap that gets on fire easily -almost the same
> for any italian car/bike out on the market; maybe not Fiat-. And that's
just

> the opposite OpenBSD seeks.
>
> VirtualBox solving a problem? Not in my world.
>
> El 01/09/2011 11:55, Tobias Crefeld escribiC3:
>
>  Am Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:48:56 -0400
>> schrieb Daniel Villarreal<yclwebmaster@gmail.**com<[hidden email]>
>> >:
>> ...
>>
>>>
http://youcanlinux.wordpress.**com/my-thoughts-on-openbsd/<http://youcanlinux
.wordpress.com/my-thoughts-on-openbsd/>

>>>
>> [..]
>>
>>> through, Although one canb t convert a Ford car to a Lamborghini
>>> motorcar, you can transform your computer to a high-performance
>>> machine.
>>>
>> [..]
>>
>> ...your comparison works in another way as well: A Lamborghini is a car
>> like Jaguar, etc. that you never would use as your primary
>> transportation tool as every repair will take a unpredictable amount of
>> time at specialised garages that are 300 miles away.
>>
>
 But OpenBSD is not needing special treatment. I'm using stable on several
computers, not wanting to get into using -current just yet. Should I infer
from your statements that -current is that unpredictable ?


> Your primary vehicle will be something that is reliable, commonly used
>> and well supported. Especially if you need it to make money with it. I
>> believe that one of the major disadvantages of OpenBSD is the lack of
>> installation support / guarantee by hardware suppliers. This could
>> smash your whole roll-out timetable, so our "multi purpose trucks"
>> will always run an Enterprise Linux.
>>
>
So just do research on the internet. Granted, it may not be possible to use
a given operating system on the latest hardware, but then people and
corporations (legally persons as well, in U.S. jurisprudence) should
contribute hardware to the developers for testing. Imagine what you could do
with OpenBSD on an HP n90, hmm. Yeah, old hardware, but still.



> But no doubt: Some applications like packet filtering / manipulation,
>> ALG or routing run pretty smart on OpenBSD. Meanwhile we circumvent
>> the problems caused by the lack of hardware supplier's support by
>> abstracting hardware dependencies with the help of virtualizing
>> platforms like VirtualBox (offering some OpenBSD-templates) or ProxMox
>> (KVM / "Other").
>>
>> Regards,
>>  Tobias.
>>
>
I don't like virtualization from a technical standpoint, if I have the
resources to run natively. I only recently started using Virtualbox on my
family's computer for testing purposes. That computer needs to be ready at
all times. Does it work ? Yes, it's even speedier than I expected. I'd
rather have a rack in my computing area with dedicated hardware. For the
time being, I just use a bunch of hard drives, a mix of IDE and SATA. The
only thing is, this core2 system isn't capable of hot-swapping, at least
that wasn't on the list of features. I'm not anxious to test that feature at
this time. I don't want to take a chance on breaking it again.

MfG,
Daniel

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Steffen Daode Nurpmeso-2
@ Daniel Villarreal <[hidden email]> wrote (2011-09-01 17:21+0200):
> Seeing and hearing that Lamborghini was a pleasant surprise.

Lambo is Audi now.
I.e. Volkswagen - one generation.
OK, two.

> I'd also be interested in checking out one of the Tesla motor cars.

And Tesla is actually a modified Lotus Elise with a fat battery
which is worth 20 KM.  Isn't it?

The nice thing about the Lotus is that it's only 50% of the weight
of a Lambo.  'Think even the mentioned Alfa is maybe more
lightweight than that.

The nice thing about a Caterham is that it's even more
lightweight.

And i know a dapple-gray mare which is more hot-blooded than all
of the mentioned!
Trust me.  Be thankful that you're not a stallion.

--Steffen
Ciao, sdaoden(*)(gmail.com)
ASCII ribbon campaign           ( ) More nuclear fission plants
  against HTML e-mail            X    can serve more coloured
    and proprietary attachments / \     and sounding animations

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Marco Peereboom
I don't see diffs in this thread.

On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 06:03:00PM +0200, Steffen Daode Nurpmeso wrote:

> @ Daniel Villarreal <[hidden email]> wrote (2011-09-01 17:21+0200):
> > Seeing and hearing that Lamborghini was a pleasant surprise.
>
> Lambo is Audi now.
> I.e. Volkswagen - one generation.
> OK, two.
>
> > I'd also be interested in checking out one of the Tesla motor cars.
>
> And Tesla is actually a modified Lotus Elise with a fat battery
> which is worth 20 KM.  Isn't it?
>
> The nice thing about the Lotus is that it's only 50% of the weight
> of a Lambo.  'Think even the mentioned Alfa is maybe more
> lightweight than that.
>
> The nice thing about a Caterham is that it's even more
> lightweight.
>
> And i know a dapple-gray mare which is more hot-blooded than all
> of the mentioned!
> Trust me.  Be thankful that you're not a stallion.
>
> --Steffen
> Ciao, sdaoden(*)(gmail.com)
> ASCII ribbon campaign           ( ) More nuclear fission plants
>   against HTML e-mail            X    can serve more coloured
>     and proprietary attachments / \     and sounding animations

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Amit Kulkarni-5
AFAIK, you don't do diffs for advocacy.
:-)

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Marco Peereboom <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I don't see diffs in this thread.
>
> On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 06:03:00PM +0200, Steffen Daode Nurpmeso wrote:
>> @ Daniel Villarreal <[hidden email]> wrote (2011-09-01
17:21+0200):

>> > Seeing and hearing that Lamborghini was a pleasant surprise.
>>
>> Lambo is Audi now.
>> I.e. Volkswagen - one generation.
>> OK, two.
>>
>> > I'd also be interested in checking out one of the Tesla motor cars.
>>
>> And Tesla is actually a modified Lotus Elise with a fat battery
>> which is worth 20 KM.  Isn't it?
>>
>> The nice thing about the Lotus is that it's only 50% of the weight
>> of a Lambo.  'Think even the mentioned Alfa is maybe more
>> lightweight than that.
>>
>> The nice thing about a Caterham is that it's even more
>> lightweight.
>>
>> And i know a dapple-gray mare which is more hot-blooded than all
>> of the mentioned!
>> Trust me.  Be thankful that you're not a stallion.
>>
>> --Steffen
>> Ciao, sdaoden(*)(gmail.com)
>> ASCII ribbon campaign           ( ) More nuclear fission plants
>>   against HTML e-mail            X    can serve more coloured
>>     and proprietary attachments / \     and sounding animations

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Chris Bennett-11
In reply to this post by Marco Peereboom
On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 11:11:11AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote:
> I don't see diffs in this thread.
>

They are diffing  cars. Unless those cars are using embedded OpenBSD, which they aren't

As Perry Mason once said:

"This is irrelevant, immaterial and incompetant"

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

John Slee-2
In reply to this post by Daniel Gracia
On 01/09/2011, at 9:23 PM, Daniel Gracia <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> Lambo, Ferrari, Maserati, Aprilia... As you are an owner, you should know
their historic -let's call it- 'temperamental' behaviour ;-)

I thought Aprilia used Rotax engines in some (all, maybe?) of their bikes

Nein?

John

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Philipp Westphal
In reply to this post by Daniel Villarreal
Well exotic?

Melkus RS 2000

(http://www.melkus-sportwagen.de)

Regards Philipp

On Thu, 01 Sep 2011, Daniel Villarreal wrote:

> Seeing and hearing that Lamborghini was a pleasant surprise. I'd also be
> interested in checking out one of the Tesla motor cars.
>
> Daniel, what you think is a nice exotic sports car ?
>
> Me gusta tambiC)n discutir alimentaciC3n.
>
> So maybe OpenBSD isn't all flashy and gaudy like that Lamborghini, but then
> I wasn't concentrating on that.
>
> Saludos,
> Daniel Villarreal
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 6:37 AM, Daniel Gracia <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > You guys aren't serious, are you?
> >
> > Lambos are shiny and fast crap that gets on fire easily -almost the same
> > for any italian car/bike out on the market; maybe not Fiat-. And that's
> just
> > the opposite OpenBSD seeks.
> >
> > VirtualBox solving a problem? Not in my world.
> >
> > El 01/09/2011 11:55, Tobias Crefeld escribiC3:
> >
> >  Am Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:48:56 -0400
> >> schrieb Daniel Villarreal<yclwebmaster@gmail.**com<[hidden email]>
> >> >:
> >> ...
> >>
> >>>
> http://youcanlinux.wordpress.**com/my-thoughts-on-openbsd/<http://youcanlinux
> .wordpress.com/my-thoughts-on-openbsd/>
> >>>
> >> [..]
> >>
> >>> through, Although one canb t convert a Ford car to a Lamborghini
> >>> motorcar, you can transform your computer to a high-performance
> >>> machine.
> >>>
> >> [..]
> >>
> >> ...your comparison works in another way as well: A Lamborghini is a car
> >> like Jaguar, etc. that you never would use as your primary
> >> transportation tool as every repair will take a unpredictable amount of
> >> time at specialised garages that are 300 miles away.
> >>
> >
>  But OpenBSD is not needing special treatment. I'm using stable on several
> computers, not wanting to get into using -current just yet. Should I infer
> from your statements that -current is that unpredictable ?
>
>
> > Your primary vehicle will be something that is reliable, commonly used
> >> and well supported. Especially if you need it to make money with it. I
> >> believe that one of the major disadvantages of OpenBSD is the lack of
> >> installation support / guarantee by hardware suppliers. This could
> >> smash your whole roll-out timetable, so our "multi purpose trucks"
> >> will always run an Enterprise Linux.
> >>
> >
> So just do research on the internet. Granted, it may not be possible to use
> a given operating system on the latest hardware, but then people and
> corporations (legally persons as well, in U.S. jurisprudence) should
> contribute hardware to the developers for testing. Imagine what you could do
> with OpenBSD on an HP n90, hmm. Yeah, old hardware, but still.
>
>
>
> > But no doubt: Some applications like packet filtering / manipulation,
> >> ALG or routing run pretty smart on OpenBSD. Meanwhile we circumvent
> >> the problems caused by the lack of hardware supplier's support by
> >> abstracting hardware dependencies with the help of virtualizing
> >> platforms like VirtualBox (offering some OpenBSD-templates) or ProxMox
> >> (KVM / "Other").
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>  Tobias.
> >>
> >
> I don't like virtualization from a technical standpoint, if I have the
> resources to run natively. I only recently started using Virtualbox on my
> family's computer for testing purposes. That computer needs to be ready at
> all times. Does it work ? Yes, it's even speedier than I expected. I'd
> rather have a rack in my computing area with dedicated hardware. For the
> time being, I just use a bunch of hard drives, a mix of IDE and SATA. The
> only thing is, this core2 system isn't capable of hot-swapping, at least
> that wasn't on the list of features. I'm not anxious to test that feature at
> this time. I don't want to take a chance on breaking it again.
>
> MfG,
> Daniel
>

--

"When I grow up,
      I want to be an honest lawyer so things like that can't happen."

-- Richard Nixon as a boy (on the Teapot Dome scandal)

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Daniel Villarreal
Thanks, that's very interesting. Melkus Sportwagen GmbH is offering an RS
2000 for only 109.900 EUR.  The RS 1000 had a 2-stroke engine. I bet that
gets some attention.

I was just studying production-line methods of Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz
SLS Gullwing and Automobili Lamborghini Holding Spa's MurciC)lago.

Whereas an Italian worker unceremoniously tossed the wiring harness into the
motorcar, the Germans moved the wiring harness on a tray  to the motorcar
and gently placed it into the car. While both motorcars were basically
crafted and, no doubt there is great accountability with such a small
workforce, the Germans used teams of people and the one person putting  the
motor together personally puts his name on the motor with a metal tag. I
found the German innovation very impressive, for example, just to name a
few...
1. The use of carbon-fiber for transmitting power from the motor to the
axle(s).
2. The use of special production equipment to tighten many critical motor
bolts all at once.

Daniel

On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Philipp Westphal <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Well exotic?
> Melkus RS 2000
> (http://www.melkus-sportwagen.de)
> Regards Philipp
>
> > Seeing and hearing that Lamborghini was a pleasant surprise. I'd also be
> > interested in checking out one of the Tesla motor cars...
> > Daniel, what you think is a nice exotic sports car ?
>
...

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Marco Peereboom
WHERE ARE THE DIFFS?

On Tue, Sep 06, 2011 at 11:34:04AM -0400, Daniel Villarreal wrote:

> Thanks, that's very interesting. Melkus Sportwagen GmbH is offering an RS
> 2000 for only 109.900 EUR.  The RS 1000 had a 2-stroke engine. I bet that
> gets some attention.
>
> I was just studying production-line methods of Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz
> SLS Gullwing and Automobili Lamborghini Holding Spa's MurciC)lago.
>
> Whereas an Italian worker unceremoniously tossed the wiring harness into the
> motorcar, the Germans moved the wiring harness on a tray  to the motorcar
> and gently placed it into the car. While both motorcars were basically
> crafted and, no doubt there is great accountability with such a small
> workforce, the Germans used teams of people and the one person putting  the
> motor together personally puts his name on the motor with a metal tag. I
> found the German innovation very impressive, for example, just to name a
> few...
> 1. The use of carbon-fiber for transmitting power from the motor to the
> axle(s).
> 2. The use of special production equipment to tighten many critical motor
> bolts all at once.
>
> Daniel
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Philipp Westphal <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
> > Well exotic?
> > Melkus RS 2000
> > (http://www.melkus-sportwagen.de)
> > Regards Philipp
> >
> > > Seeing and hearing that Lamborghini was a pleasant surprise. I'd also be
> > > interested in checking out one of the Tesla motor cars...
> > > Daniel, what you think is a nice exotic sports car ?
> >
> ...

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

john slee
In reply to this post by Daniel Villarreal
Hi,

On 7 September 2011 01:34, Daniel Villarreal <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks, that's very interesting. Melkus Sportwagen GmbH is offering an RS
> 2000 for only 109.900 EUR.  The RS 1000 had a 2-stroke engine. I bet that
> gets some attention.
>
> I was just studying production-line methods of Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz
> SLS Gullwing and Automobili Lamborghini Holding Spa's MurciC)lago.

I'm glad Mercedes are careful about things.  Unfortunately this is not the
case
for BMW, at least not their motorcycles.

eg. with the F650GS single-cylinder bikes up to 2003 had a known problem
where the front wheel would occasionally separate from the rest of the bike.
This is a fairly major problem to have, and IIRC at least one lady ended up
with a badly broken leg as a direct result.

BMW's response was to do warranty replacements on the broken bikes,
admit no fault under any circumstances, yet the 2004 model suddenly had
a new design for the lower fork legs...  There was no safety recall issued.
Most of the BMW dealers I've spoken to haven't even noticed the difference
in the  forks, nevermind actually known about the problems.

They seem to be great at building engines, and their bikes have wonderful
switchgear[1], and they have never hesitated to depart radically from the
motorcycling norm (look at their suspension designs!), but often the final
implementation of their good ideas is utterly woeful.

Thinking about the above highlighted for me the aspect of OpenBSD that
attracted me. It's not enough to have good ideas. Implementation quality
and subsequent maintenance/support matters just as much, if not more.

John

[1] yeah, seems like such a small thing... but it's the first thing I notice
    whenever I ride a Japanese bike.  Switchgear quality = awful

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Alexander Schrijver
On Wed, Sep 07, 2011 at 02:42:04PM +1000, john slee wrote:
> VROOOM

cars, meh.

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Daniel Villarreal
In reply to this post by john slee
Hey John,
Thanks for letting me know about BMW motorcycles. I always rode Japanese
motorcycles. I always preferred dual-purpose motorcycles and I never could
afford one of those fancy Paris-Dakkar models.

One time a shop put on a Metzeler tire on my bike and it seemed to work
fine.... till I tried to do a long cruise and the added weight pushed the
muffler down onto the tire and caused a flat. It could have been a real bad
situation. It taught me that I have to have confidence in the people I'm
dealing with and to not just tell a shop to put a particular tire on just
because it's 'cool.' I should have told that shop to outfit my bike with
what fit. You would think you shouldn't have to tell a professional that you
want something that actually fits. Needless to say I never went back to that
shop. They were sloppy.

I went to GNU/Linux because I wanted quality computing. The more I learn
about operating systems, the more I appreciate OpenBSD. I've just loaded up
-current on another computer. It looks nice. I was trying to add ports, but
it got stuck and I had to go on to other things, so I look forward to
getting ports going.

have a good day,
Daniel

On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:42 AM, john slee <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 7 September 2011 01:34, Daniel Villarreal <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> ...
> > I was just studying production-line methods of Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz
> > SLS Gullwing and Automobili Lamborghini Holding Spa's MurciC)lago.
>
> I'm glad Mercedes are careful about things.  Unfortunately this is not the
> case
> for BMW, at least not their motorcycles.
>
> eg. with the F650GS single-cylinder bikes up to 2003 had a known problem
> where the front wheel would occasionally separate from the rest of the
> bike.
> This is a fairly major problem to have, and IIRC at least one lady ended up
> with a badly broken leg as a direct result.
>
> BMW's response was to do warranty replacements on the broken bikes,
> admit no fault under any circumstances, yet the 2004 model suddenly had
> a new design for the lower fork legs...  There was no safety recall issued.
> Most of the BMW dealers I've spoken to haven't even noticed the difference
> in the  forks, nevermind actually known about the problems.
>
> They seem to be great at building engines, and their bikes have wonderful
> switchgear[1], and they have never hesitated to depart radically from the
> motorcycling norm (look at their suspension designs!), but often the final
> implementation of their good ideas is utterly woeful.
>
> Thinking about the above highlighted for me the aspect of OpenBSD that
> attracted me. It's not enough to have good ideas. Implementation quality
> and subsequent maintenance/support matters just as much, if not more.
>
> John
>
> [1] yeah, seems like such a small thing... but it's the first thing I
> notice
>    whenever I ride a Japanese bike.  Switchgear quality = awful

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Loganaden Velvindron-3
In reply to this post by Daniel Villarreal
Someone wrote a diff on tech@ to make malloc more
memory efficient. He just needs reports on multiple
platforms.

It's always painful not to get enough test reports
on multiple platforms after sinking some of your spare
time into it.

How about some of you here give it a try ?
http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=131537857923062&w=2

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Re: My thoughts on OpenBSD - is advocacy working ?

Otto Moerbeek
On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 04:14:43AM -0400, Loganaden Velvindron wrote:

> Someone wrote a diff on tech@ to make malloc more
> memory efficient. He just needs reports on multiple
> platforms.
>
> It's always painful not to get enough test reports
> on multiple platforms after sinking some of your spare
> time into it.

Indeed. Although from my perspective I'm not just "somebody" ;-)

>
> How about some of you here give it a try ?
> http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=131537857923062&w=2

Yep. Please do.

        -Otto