Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

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Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Kenneth R Westerback-2
The OpenBSD Foundation is happy to announce that Microsoft has made
a significant financial donation to the Foundation. This donation
is in recognition of the role of the Foundation in supporting the
OpenSSH project. This donation makes Microsoft the first Gold level
contributor in the OpenBSD Foundation's 2015 fundraising campaign.

Donations to the Foundation can be made on our Donations Page at

www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html

We can be contacted regarding corporate sponsorship at

[hidden email].

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Reyk Floeter-2
On Wed, Jul 08, 2015 at 10:12:44AM -0400, Kenneth R Westerback wrote:

> The OpenBSD Foundation is happy to announce that Microsoft has made
> a significant financial donation to the Foundation. This donation
> is in recognition of the role of the Foundation in supporting the
> OpenSSH project. This donation makes Microsoft the first Gold level
> contributor in the OpenBSD Foundation's 2015 fundraising campaign.
>
> Donations to the Foundation can be made on our Donations Page at
>
> www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html
>
> We can be contacted regarding corporate sponsorship at
>
> [hidden email].
>

Nice!

Reyk

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Gleydson Soares-3
In reply to this post by Kenneth R Westerback-2
Great news !

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Kenneth R Westerback
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> The OpenBSD Foundation is happy to announce that Microsoft has made
> a significant financial donation to the Foundation. This donation
> is in recognition of the role of the Foundation in supporting the
> OpenSSH project. This donation makes Microsoft the first Gold level
> contributor in the OpenBSD Foundation's 2015 fundraising campaign.
>
> Donations to the Foundation can be made on our Donations Page at
>
> www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html
>
> We can be contacted regarding corporate sponsorship at
>
> [hidden email].

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Christer Solskogen-3
On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Gleydson Soares <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Great news !
>

As I said on the OpenBSD facebook page:
"I have to say that I find it quite ironic of all of the vendors in
the world, the foundation gets a huge donation from Microsoft which
yet have implemented it yet. Huge kudos to Microsoft." I guess the
next up is Oracle? :-)

--
chs

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Jorge Gabriel Lopez Paramount
Quoting Christer Solskogen <[hidden email]>:

> On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Gleydson Soares <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Great news !
>>
>
> As I said on the OpenBSD facebook page:
> "I have to say that I find it quite ironic of all of the vendors in
> the world, the foundation gets a huge donation from Microsoft which
> yet have implemented it yet. Huge kudos to Microsoft." I guess the
> next up is Oracle? :-)

I do not find it ironic but suspicious and a little worrying, but have  
no good rant since I only have contributed buying a CD set and a  
rucksack.

I would like to say only this: if people to not want big companies  
meddling with OpenBSD as it has been happening with Linux better its  
users support it.

--
Best regards,
Jorge Lopez.


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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Josh Grosse
On 2015-07-08 13:04, Jorge Gabriel Lopez Paramount wrote:

> I would like to say only this: if people to not want big companies
> meddling with OpenBSD as it has been happening with Linux better its
> users support it.

Jorge,

Its users should support it, yes.  True. And many of us do.  However,
the statement might not be completely accurate.  To the best of my
knowledge:

1.  Contributors do not influence technical direction, instead, the
funds are allocated based on Project need.  This is per the
description at http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html and
the description at http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html

2.  Any code contribution requires the approval of multiple Project
members -- developers with commit authority -- in order to be committed,
and all commits are subject to Project review.

3.  All code commits are done publicly, via CVS.  That's per stated
policy in http://www.openbsd.org/goals.html and is also pursuant to the
"Open" in the Project's name.

Yes, it is possible for a financial contributor to influence
development.
Specifically, hardware support may be influenced by contributing sample
hardware to an interested developer.  I have also heard that certain
beverages may have a minor influential effect.*

---

* I would consider this a social contribution rather than a financial
one.
Though, some single malt scotches have reached a price where one may
require both Financial Advisers and Investment Counselors in order to
obtain them.**

** Yes, Macallan 18, I'm looking at you.

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Kenneth R Westerback-2
> I would like to say only this: if people to not want big companies  
> meddling with OpenBSD as it has been happening with Linux better its  
> users support it.

I said this in 2006:

    "I think that contributions should have come first from the vendors,
    secondly from the corporate users, and thirdly from individual
    users. But the response has been almost entirely the opposite, with
    almost a 15 to 1 dollar ratio in favor of the little people. Thanks a
    lot, little people!"

As a non-director, I do not have any more insight into the current
ratios of contributions to the Foundation, other than their annual
financials which anyone can find.

However I suspect it would take many years of big company money to
move that ratio forward from a 20 year pattern...

However you used a specific word that bothers me.  Honestly, I don't
see proof of any meddling, if I saw it, I would care deeply about it.
You'll have to be significantly more detailed before raising what
might appear as an allegation, supposition that it might occur in the
future is simply not enough.  Even your tiny hint is an attack on our
character.  I am not going to take that lightly.

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Kevin Chadwick-4
In reply to this post by Kenneth R Westerback-2
On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 10:12:44 -0400
Kenneth R Westerback wrote:

> The OpenBSD Foundation is happy to announce that Microsoft has made
> a significant financial donation to the Foundation. This donation
> is in recognition of the role of the Foundation in supporting the
> OpenSSH project. This donation makes Microsoft the first Gold level
> contributor in the OpenBSD Foundation's 2015 fundraising campaign.
>
> Donations to the Foundation can be made on our Donations Page at

Shame on you Apple, Redhat and Cisco etc..

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Kevin Chadwick-4
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
> > I would like to say only this: if people to not want big companies  
> > meddling with OpenBSD as it has been happening with Linux better its  
> > users support it.  
>
>  Even your tiny hint is an attack on our character. I am not going
> to take that lightly.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. It would simply be an hilarious
addition to theo.c. Imagine Theos explosive response to some of the
kdbus, cgroups et al that Linus has struggled to deal with, never mind
binary blobs.

http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#39

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Chris Moody
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Much appreciated insight Theo.

I wouldn't say that I question OpenBSD's behaviors or character in the
slightest - quite the contrary - this group stands as an example of
how open source can successfully work.  Bravo.

Where I personally am a bit discomforted is in all the other examples
we've seen in recent years (*cough*linux*) of how big money has
changed the perspective of other (once considered solid) open source
projects as well.  Money is certainly necessary, but big enough piles
develop some strange gravitational forces.

That's not at all an accusation that meddling is or ever will happen
here.  It's more just a reminder in my mind to stay ever vigilant of
signs of things like meddling/tampering/influencing/(insert your verb
of choice here) that erodes the core focus.  This organization has
done an excellent job to date of preventing this.  Let's just keep it up
.

News like this just makes me skeptical of what -Redmond- is up to
considering their long history of upstanding behavior. ;o)

Cheers,
- -Chris


On 7/8/15 10:57 AM, Theo de Raadt wrote:

>> I would like to say only this: if people to not want big
>> companies meddling with OpenBSD as it has been happening with
>> Linux better its users support it.
>
> I said this in 2006:
>
> "I think that contributions should have come first from the
> vendors, secondly from the corporate users, and thirdly from
> individual users. But the response has been almost entirely the
> opposite, with almost a 15 to 1 dollar ratio in favor of the little
> people. Thanks a lot, little people!"
>
> As a non-director, I do not have any more insight into the current
> ratios of contributions to the Foundation, other than their annual
> financials which anyone can find.
>
> However I suspect it would take many years of big company money to
> move that ratio forward from a 20 year pattern...
>
> However you used a specific word that bothers me.  Honestly, I
> don't see proof of any meddling, if I saw it, I would care deeply
> about it. You'll have to be significantly more detailed before
> raising what might appear as an allegation, supposition that it
> might occur in the future is simply not enough.  Even your tiny
> hint is an attack on our character.  I am not going to take that
> lightly.
Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org

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IwwTPRtetSOdpPV/mcpnSC4fkdWsnkNc1Zs88dsHVGOFlU6V5dCP6lPXi+/m38mZ
BAnxsZW91IDvL2R3GjUbxZDU+UWeV52fn46BF57HMFdjSbIyF2hvapq2o+8XWVUi
Z8iyMSfNHBxvzLRKHvpDU+dmb5xD1Wele+AosbKPr3LxVBWf89PT6BIBcSrAmr3g
7rNCrZPfCGwmxc1+QOWN0v9PTfBrn6/cPKgRfk+y6gL23gH1ibfqMY6AIOXPNkzu
zHeF76oITn0O2aFVFSmFZnAE1atVTIVixgxJ6sCAOwysE+MV7rJbOrwZ6Klidi0=
=JvPL
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Jorge Gabriel Lopez Paramount
In reply to this post by Kenneth R Westerback-2
Quoting Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]>:

>> I would like to say only this: if people to not want big companies
>> meddling with OpenBSD as it has been happening with Linux better its
>> users support it.
>
> I said this in 2006:
>
>     "I think that contributions should have come first from the vendors,
>     secondly from the corporate users, and thirdly from individual
>     users. But the response has been almost entirely the opposite, with
>     almost a 15 to 1 dollar ratio in favor of the little people. Thanks a
>     lot, little people!"
>
> As a non-director, I do not have any more insight into the current
> ratios of contributions to the Foundation, other than their annual
> financials which anyone can find.
>
> However I suspect it would take many years of big company money to
> move that ratio forward from a 20 year pattern...
>
> However you used a specific word that bothers me.  Honestly, I don't
> see proof of any meddling, if I saw it, I would care deeply about it.
> You'll have to be significantly more detailed before raising what
> might appear as an allegation, supposition that it might occur in the
> future is simply not enough.  Even your tiny hint is an attack on our
> character.  I am not going to take that lightly.

It's not about OpenBSD or its people, it's about Microsoft, I think  
that what happened to Nokia is a good example of that.

I stopped following Microsoft in detail when I switched to Linux many  
years ago so I have no concrete and recent example about that, but one  
thing I remember is Microsoft threatening Linux users and companies  
about patents and IP, then SuSE entering into agreements with  
Microsoft to not be sued. I prefer to not opine whether if was good  
for SuSE its relationship with Microsoft, but I highly disliked  
Microsoft playing the patent troll with the Linux community. I  
personally think there is very little good about Microsoft besides its  
money.

So I think and hope that OpenBSD people will keep doing the good job  
they have been doing. If not, well, there are other OSes out there, no  
need to make accusations or throw a tantrum about it.

--
Best regards,
Jorge Lopez.


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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Kenneth R Westerback-2
> Quoting Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]>:
>
> >> I would like to say only this: if people to not want big companies
> >> meddling with OpenBSD as it has been happening with Linux better its
> >> users support it.
> >
> > I said this in 2006:
> >
> >     "I think that contributions should have come first from the vendors,
> >     secondly from the corporate users, and thirdly from individual
> >     users. But the response has been almost entirely the opposite, with
> >     almost a 15 to 1 dollar ratio in favor of the little people. Thanks a
> >     lot, little people!"
> >
> > As a non-director, I do not have any more insight into the current
> > ratios of contributions to the Foundation, other than their annual
> > financials which anyone can find.
> >
> > However I suspect it would take many years of big company money to
> > move that ratio forward from a 20 year pattern...
> >
> > However you used a specific word that bothers me.  Honestly, I don't
> > see proof of any meddling, if I saw it, I would care deeply about it.
> > You'll have to be significantly more detailed before raising what
> > might appear as an allegation, supposition that it might occur in the
> > future is simply not enough.  Even your tiny hint is an attack on our
> > character.  I am not going to take that lightly.
>
> It's not about OpenBSD or its people, it's about Microsoft, I think  
> that what happened to Nokia is a good example of that.

This is an OpenBSD mailing list, so that is off-topic.

You effectively accused MSFT (or other companies) of meddling in
OpenBSD, which means you are accusing OpenBSD of being accepting
towards such 'meddling'.

Are you ethically-challenged and unable to understand what you are
saying?

> So I think and hope that OpenBSD people will keep doing the good job  
> they have been doing. If not, well, there are other OSes out there, no  
> need to make accusations or throw a tantrum about it.

I hope you eventually learn to stop accusing people without evidence.

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Giancarlo Razzolini-3
In reply to this post by Jorge Gabriel Lopez Paramount
Em 08-07-2015 15:34, Jorge Gabriel Lopez Paramount escreveu:
> there are other OSes out there, no need to make accusations or throw a
> tantrum about it.
Go use these other OSes and leave OpenBSD alone. You'd be doing us a favor.

Cheers,
Giancarlo Razzolini

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Артур Истомин
On Wed, Jul 08, 2015 at 03:48:51PM -0300, Giancarlo Razzolini wrote:
> Em 08-07-2015 15:34, Jorge Gabriel Lopez Paramount escreveu:
> >there are other OSes out there, no need to make accusations or throw a
> >tantrum about it.
> Go use these other OSes and leave OpenBSD alone. You'd be doing us a favor.

And it was send from Linux OS

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.0.1                                                                      

Shame for you, linux fan boy :)

>
> Cheers,
> Giancarlo Razzolini

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Joel Rees-2
In reply to this post by Jorge Gabriel Lopez Paramount
Since Jorge broached the subject, I have a couple of armpits I'd like to air.[1]

I am glad, Theo, that you are not on the board of the OpenBSD
Foundation. For many reasons, including the present topic of
discussion, it demonstrates that you understand engineering and
security and how they interact from a very broad perspective.

I sympathize with the board. There is no correct response that I can
see from where I'm sitting.

Beyond that, the board doesn't need armchair quarterbacks.

I just wish Microsoft had given us (the community, as well as the
project) more time.

--
Joel Rees

[1] Opinions are like armpits.
Everyone has a couple, and they all stink but your own.
-- a common saying in Texas from the mid-1970s

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Joel Rees-2
Hmm. Should have looked at the contributions page before I posted. I
was reading "Gold" and thinking "Iridium".

On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Joel Rees <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Since Jorge broached the subject, I have a couple of armpits I'd like to air.[1]
>
> I am glad, Theo, that you are not on the board of the OpenBSD
> Foundation. For many reasons, including the present topic of
> discussion, it demonstrates that you understand engineering and
> security and how they interact from a very broad perspective.
>
> I sympathize with the board. There is no correct response that I can
> see from where I'm sitting.
>
> Beyond that, the board doesn't need armchair quarterbacks.
>
> I just wish Microsoft had given us (the community, as well as the
> project) more time.

Less than USD 50,000 is probably not quite in the range to get worried about.

Makes Google look a little stingy, though.

> --
> Joel Rees
>
> [1] Opinions are like armpits.
> Everyone has a couple, and they all stink but your own.
> -- a common saying in Texas from the mid-1970s

--
Joel Rees

Be careful when you look at conspiracy.
Look first in your own heart,
and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy.
Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well.

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Dain Bentley
For what it's worth, Microsoft leadership has changed and so has their
strategy.  They've embraced other OSS projects and are contributing to
Docker as well.  They are also working on a way to get .Net to be cross
platform.  They have also stated they will be implementing SSH more or less:
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/06/microsoft-bringing-ssh-to-windows-and-powershell/


Im not surprised by the donation given their leadership change at all.

On Wednesday, July 8, 2015, Joel Rees <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hmm. Should have looked at the contributions page before I posted. I
> was reading "Gold" and thinking "Iridium".
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Joel Rees <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > Since Jorge broached the subject, I have a couple of armpits I'd like to
> air.[1]
> >
> > I am glad, Theo, that you are not on the board of the OpenBSD
> > Foundation. For many reasons, including the present topic of
> > discussion, it demonstrates that you understand engineering and
> > security and how they interact from a very broad perspective.
> >
> > I sympathize with the board. There is no correct response that I can
> > see from where I'm sitting.
> >
> > Beyond that, the board doesn't need armchair quarterbacks.
> >
> > I just wish Microsoft had given us (the community, as well as the
> > project) more time.
>
> Less than USD 50,000 is probably not quite in the range to get worried
> about.
>
> Makes Google look a little stingy, though.
>
> > --
> > Joel Rees
> >
> > [1] Opinions are like armpits.
> > Everyone has a couple, and they all stink but your own.
> > -- a common saying in Texas from the mid-1970s
>
> --
> Joel Rees
>
> Be careful when you look at conspiracy.
> Look first in your own heart,
> and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy.
> Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well.

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Thomas Schmidt
In reply to this post by Josh Grosse
On Wed, Jul 08, 2015 at 01:36:20PM -0400, Josh Grosse wrote:

> On 2015-07-08 13:04, Jorge Gabriel Lopez Paramount wrote:
>
> >I would like to say only this: if people to not want big companies
> >meddling with OpenBSD as it has been happening with Linux better its
> >users support it.
>
> Jorge,
>
> Its users should support it, yes.  True. And many of us do.  However,
> the statement might not be completely accurate.  To the best of my
> knowledge:
>
> 1.  Contributors do not influence technical direction, instead, the
> funds are allocated based on Project need.  This is per the
> description at http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html and
> the description at http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html
>
> 2.  Any code contribution requires the approval of multiple Project
> members -- developers with commit authority -- in order to be committed,
> and all commits are subject to Project review.
>
> 3.  All code commits are done publicly, via CVS.  That's per stated
> policy in http://www.openbsd.org/goals.html and is also pursuant to the
> "Open" in the Project's name.
>
> Yes, it is possible for a financial contributor to influence development.
> Specifically, hardware support may be influenced by contributing sample
> hardware to an interested developer.  I have also heard that certain
> beverages may have a minor influential effect.*
>
> ---
>
> * I would consider this a social contribution rather than a financial one.
> Though, some single malt scotches have reached a price where one may
> require both Financial Advisers and Investment Counselors in order to
> obtain them.**
>
> ** Yes, Macallan 18, I'm looking at you.
>

In general, I would say: If you don't trust the developers to not let
companies "meddle with OpenBSD", then you shouldn't trust them, and
their OS anyways.

Kind regards,
Thomas

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Markus Rosjat
In reply to this post by Jorge Gabriel Lopez Paramount
Am 08.07.2015 um 19:04 schrieb Jorge Gabriel Lopez Paramount:

> Quoting Christer Solskogen <[hidden email]>:
>
>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Gleydson Soares <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> Great news !
>>>
>>
>> As I said on the OpenBSD facebook page:
>> "I have to say that I find it quite ironic of all of the vendors in
>> the world, the foundation gets a huge donation from Microsoft which
>> yet have implemented it yet. Huge kudos to Microsoft." I guess the
>> next up is Oracle? :-)
>
> I do not find it ironic but suspicious and a little worrying, but have
> no good rant since I only have contributed buying a CD set and a
> rucksack.
>
> I would like to say only this: if people to not want big companies
> meddling with OpenBSD as it has been happening with Linux better its
> users support it.
>
Well Microsoft has learn thnings in the past and they also hired enough
guys to set them on the right track.
It's just logical to found something you might want to learn/get know
how from. I think I just saw an interview with theo de raadt where he
stated that in his opinion MS is 2nd now when it come to getting
security right on there OS. I think there is still a way to go and I'm
not a MS fanboy but Microsoft showed they want to learn and if this
means open up (and if it's just a little) they do that. I think a good
example is SAMBA , as they were forced to cooperate with the samba team
they could have send some guys that have no clue but no they send guys
that were decent and know there stuff becuase they wanted to benefit
from this. So why not be a little happy that the openbsd project got a
contribution even from  MS?

but well maybe I get it all wrong ...

regards

--
Markus Rosjat    fon: +49 351 8107223    mail: [hidden email]

G+H Webservice GbR Gorzolla, Herrmann
Königsbrücker Str. 70, 01099 Dresden

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Bitte prüfen Sie, ob diese Mail wirklich ausgedruckt werden muss! Before you print it, think about your responsibility and commitment to the ENVIRONMENT

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Re: Microsoft Now OpenBSD Foundation Gold Contributor

Giancarlo Razzolini-3
In reply to this post by Артур Истомин
Em 08-07-2015 18:48, Артур Истомин escreveu:
> And it was send from Linux OS
>
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.0.1
>
> Shame for you, linux fan boy:)
And this proves what exactly? You don't know about my use for neither
Linux nor OpenBSD, you don't get to talk about it.

12