META: Does this list have no moderators?

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META: Does this list have no moderators?

Gareth Nelson
I'm sure we're all aware of the individual i'm thinking of when I say their
posts are both inappropriate and annoying.

The individual in question should be referred privately to mental health
services, but they should also be prohibited from posting further to this
list.

Thoughts?

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Re: META: Does this list have no moderators?

Chris Bennett
On Sat, Jun 04, 2016 at 10:26:45PM +0100, Gareth Nelson wrote:
> I'm sure we're all aware of the individual i'm thinking of when I say their
> posts are both inappropriate and annoying.
>
> The individual in question should be referred privately to mental health
> services, but they should also be prohibited from posting further to this
> list.
>
> Thoughts?
>

There have been done scientific studies of historical evidence that
within societies, the outcasts such as mentally ill, disfigured, never
marrying, totally disagreeing with established "norms" of the group,
because of their freedom of thought given by being outcasts, they have
been able to see new ideas, devote time to invent new ways, the mentally
ill able to make connections that are correct but not seen by people of
normal mental state, etc.
These people may in fact be responsible for the majority of progress of
the human race forwards!

So, no. I do not see it as appropriate to prohibit someone that has made
some good advice and ideas. This could be the person that makes the
great leap to solve some critical problem not seen by anyone else.

There is a difference between trolls and annoying people. Over the
years, some some of the best advice I have been given was by the
homeless and crack cocaine addicts.

Chris Bennett

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Re: META: Does this list have no moderators?

ludovic coues
In reply to this post by Gareth Nelson
2016-06-04 23:26 GMT+02:00 Gareth Nelson <[hidden email]>:
> I'm sure we're all aware of the individual i'm thinking of when I say their
> posts are both inappropriate and annoying.
>
> The individual in question should be referred privately to mental health
> services, but they should also be prohibited from posting further to this
> list.
>
> Thoughts?
>

Asking to exclude someone for their supposed mental health is plain wrong.
If we are thinking to the same person, you can call out their abuse of
cross-list.

Or as some great people on this list would say, ignore the problem and
watch if it goes away.

--

Cordialement, Coues Ludovic
+336 148 743 42

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Re: META: Does this list have no moderators?

torsten
HI
I guess I put it clear, now comments are coming though which are excessive or
simply not necessary
A Yea or Nay will do, sometimes silence is a virtue
T

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
> Of ludovic coues
> Sent: 04 June 2016 23:18
> To: Gareth Nelson
> Cc: OpenBSD general usage list
> Subject: Re: META: Does this list have no moderators?
>
> 2016-06-04 23:26 GMT+02:00 Gareth Nelson <[hidden email]>:
> > I'm sure we're all aware of the individual i'm thinking of when I say
> > their posts are both inappropriate and annoying.
> >
> > The individual in question should be referred privately to mental
> > health services, but they should also be prohibited from posting
> > further to this list.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
>
> Asking to exclude someone for their supposed mental health is plain
> wrong.
> If we are thinking to the same person, you can call out their abuse of
> cross-list.
>
> Or as some great people on this list would say, ignore the problem and
> watch if it goes away.
>
> --
>
> Cordialement, Coues Ludovic
> +336 148 743 42

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Re: META: Does this list have no moderators?

torsten
In reply to this post by Gareth Nelson
Freedom of speech and expression is the cause.
How could we at the open source community start policing any other then
abusive, commercial, racist or political spam.
That would make us no better then what we are opposing.
I don't want to offend anyone but this is the point, or better, the sole
reason of existence, of what we are doing.

Regards
Torsten

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
> Of Gareth Nelson
> Sent: 04 June 2016 22:27
> To: OpenBSD general usage list
> Subject: META: Does this list have no moderators?
>
> I'm sure we're all aware of the individual i'm thinking of when I say
> their posts are both inappropriate and annoying.
>
> The individual in question should be referred privately to mental
> health services, but they should also be prohibited from posting
> further to this list.
>
> Thoughts?

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Re: META: Does this list have no moderators?

Gareth Nelson
In reply to this post by ludovic coues
I would never suggest excluding someone purely for having mental health
problems - i'd be a hypocrite to do so.

However, it seems quite clear this person's inappropriate posting is a
direct result of those problems.

What i'm saying is the inappropriate posts are the issue, and the cause of
the issue is the person's mental health issues - their language reminds me
a lot of the way paranoid schizophrenics talk (and I have direct experience
dealing with this).

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 11:17 PM, ludovic coues <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2016-06-04 23:26 GMT+02:00 Gareth Nelson <[hidden email]>:
> > I'm sure we're all aware of the individual i'm thinking of when I say
> their
> > posts are both inappropriate and annoying.
> >
> > The individual in question should be referred privately to mental health
> > services, but they should also be prohibited from posting further to this
> > list.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
>
> Asking to exclude someone for their supposed mental health is plain wrong.
> If we are thinking to the same person, you can call out their abuse of
> cross-list.
>
> Or as some great people on this list would say, ignore the problem and
> watch if it goes away.
>
> --
>
> Cordialement, Coues Ludovic
> +336 148 743 42

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Re: META: Does this list have no moderators?

Steve Litt
In reply to this post by Gareth Nelson
On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 22:26:45 +0100
Gareth Nelson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm sure we're all aware of the individual i'm thinking of when I say
> their posts are both inappropriate and annoying.
>
> The individual in question should be referred privately to mental
> health services, but they should also be prohibited from posting
> further to this list.
>
> Thoughts?

I personally believe that people who post that way shouldn't be allowed
on the list, but whether he's banned or not isn't important. Here's your
solution:

:0:
* ^From.*[hidden email]
* ^(To|Cc).*[hidden email]
/dev/null

He'll never be able to annoy you again, except in quoted text from
those who choose to respond to him. If they're responding in anger,
they should also employ the solution I recommended. Pretty soon
obnoxious_boy isn't a problem to anyone, because nobody's listening.
And then, likely as not, he'll take his obnoxo-talk to a different list.

I wrote about this subject at
http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/init/killfile.htm

SteveT

Steve Litt
June 2016 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother?
http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb

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Re: META: Does this list have no moderators?

Nick Holland
In reply to this post by Gareth Nelson
On 06/04/16 17:26, Gareth Nelson wrote:
> I'm sure we're all aware of the individual i'm thinking of when I say their
> posts are both inappropriate and annoying.

Some people I consider annoying and inappropriate I have a word for:
"friends" :)

Short answer: no, the lists ar not moderated.  Not for reasons of "free
speech", as the lists are not a public resource (i.e., my right to free
speech does not extend uninvited into your living room).  Moderation
just creates too much trouble and costs too much in resources.  What if
someone, maybe someone who you consider having posted too much
"inappropriate and annoying" stuff discovers a real problem and posts
it?  And the post gets delayed hours or days?

The value of asking a question and often getting an answer MINUTES
later, faster than you could work through the phone tree at a commercial
SW vendor, in my mind, greatly outweighs the "expense" of the stupid
posts hitting my mail box.

Believe it or not, "inappropriate and annoying" posts have their
purpose.  About 17 years ago, I kept seeing insulting, childish, and
idiotic posts about a guy named "Theo de Raadt" and a project called
"OpenBSD".  I figured anyone who created that kind of hatred from that
kind of people was probably on to something and worth checking out.  No
regrets.  In fact, I owe a bit of thanks to those childish idiots. :)

Besides, I've worked in the business world long enough that I'm used to
stupid e-mails from people we call "bosses".  *shrug*  Treat the
annoying posts the same way...ignore 'em. :)

Nick.

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Re: META: Does this list have no moderators?

Артур Истомин
In reply to this post by Steve Litt
On Sun, Jun 05, 2016 at 12:04:47PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 22:26:45 +0100
> Gareth Nelson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I'm sure we're all aware of the individual i'm thinking of when I say
> > their posts are both inappropriate and annoying.
> >
> > The individual in question should be referred privately to mental
> > health services, but they should also be prohibited from posting
> > further to this list.
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
> I personally believe that people who post that way shouldn't be allowed
> on the list, but whether he's banned or not isn't important. Here's your
> solution:
>
> :0:
> * ^From.*[hidden email]
> * ^(To|Cc).*[hidden email]
> /dev/null
>
> He'll never be able to annoy you again, except in quoted text from
> those who choose to respond to him. If they're responding in anger,
> they should also employ the solution I recommended. Pretty soon
> obnoxious_boy isn't a problem to anyone, because nobody's listening.
> And then, likely as not, he'll take his obnoxo-talk to a different list.

Or rejoining with new email/nickname )

I never realy understood problems with trolls or annoying people. They're
amusing sometimes. When not - you can simply not read. It is very simple
rule and it work even for me - very irritable and short-tempered person.

>
> I wrote about this subject at
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/init/killfile.htm
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> June 2016 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother?
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb

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Re: META: Does this list have no moderators?

Duncan Patton a Campbell
In reply to this post by Gareth Nelson
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 22:26:45 +0100
Gareth Nelson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm sure we're all aware of the individual i'm thinking of when I say
> their posts are both inappropriate and annoying.
>
> The individual in question should be referred privately to mental
> health services, but they should also be prohibited from posting
> further to this list.
>
> Thoughts?
>

Don' like wut UC?  Press "N" for Next.

Dhu


- --
Je suis Canadien. Ce n'est pas Francais ou Anglaise.
C'est une esp`ece de sauvage: ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco;-)
http://babayaga.neotext.ca/PublicKeys/Duncan_Patton_a_Campbell_pubkey.txt
iF4EAREIAAYFAldYvlUACgkQiY6AzzR1lzy/ywEArraDE1brSY4pcIV9XU41yuWN
AapejG4tIl6Nz9sKweEA/iI47LicKJAJ3fJ66VjrcZXd8/rNiA1c0P5B58vJZl0n
=tfq0
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