Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

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Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

Bob Beck-2
     Hi all,

   A number of you may have noticed the recent flurry of activity,
leading to stuff
like bigmem being turned on.. Some more good stuff is coming soon (my amd64
at my house is using 7 gigabyes of memory for buffer cache, and I'm doing builds
without touching disks..).  Some really cool stuff is being worked on
and is coming
to a source tree near you soon.

   However, I'd like to take the opportunity to remind you all, that
the project does
depend on CD and shirt sales to keep it alive.  Yes you may not use a
CD all the
time, but the latest one is pretty cool.

  So, short answer? go buy a CD.  pre-orders are a little slow this
release, and we need
to see some more activity in that area.

  Then maybe I'll stop worrying about it and commit that thing that
will make your
amd64 use even  more buttloads of memory too!

   So - yes we like donations, but we also like CD sales.. now is the
time to help out.

    Thanks

    -Bob

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

Patsy-11
 On Mon, 18 Apr 2011 13:39:19 -0600, Bob Beck <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>   So, short answer? go buy a CD.  pre-orders are a little slow this
> release, and we need
> to see some more activity in that area.
>
>   Then maybe I'll stop worrying about it and commit that thing that
> will make your
> amd64 use even  more buttloads of memory too!
>

 I've just ordered my CD set and a hoodie. Sorry for not doing it
 sooner - you guy certainly deserve it. If I meet you in person,
 remind me to buy you a drink or three :-)

 Patsy

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

Dave Anderson-4
In reply to this post by Bob Beck-2
On Mon, 18 Apr 2011, Bob Beck wrote:

>     Hi all,
>
>   A number of you may have noticed the recent flurry of activity,
>leading to stuff like bigmem being turned on.. Some more good stuff is
>coming soon (my amd64 at my house is using 7 gigabyes of memory for
>buffer cache, and I'm doing builds without touching disks..).  Some
>really cool stuff is being worked on and is coming to a source tree
>near you soon.
>
>   However, I'd like to take the opportunity to remind you all, that
>the project does depend on CD and shirt sales to keep it alive.  Yes
>you may not use a CD all the time, but the latest one is pretty cool.
>
>  So, short answer? go buy a CD.  pre-orders are a little slow this
>release, and we need to see some more activity in that area.

This may tie in to something I've noticed -- it's less than two weeks to
the official release date of 4.9 but there's no sign that the CDs are
shipping yet.  While there's no obligation for them to arrive before
that date, usually we hear earlier than this that they're shipping.  Is
there some delay?

>  Then maybe I'll stop worrying about it and commit that thing that
>will make your amd64 use even more buttloads of memory too!
>
>   So - yes we like donations, but we also like CD sales.. now is the
>time to help out.

My set was ordered as soon as the order page went up, but (since, for
the first time in far too long, I've got some spare cash) I'll see about
also making a donation.

Not that I have any particular standing, but FWIW, y'all please order a
CD set if you haven't already done so.  OpenBSD has served me well for
quite a few years, and I'd really like to see it continue -- and
continue to improve.

        Dave

--
Dave Anderson
<[hidden email]>

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

Theo de Raadt
> >   A number of you may have noticed the recent flurry of activity,
> >leading to stuff like bigmem being turned on.. Some more good stuff is
> >coming soon (my amd64 at my house is using 7 gigabyes of memory for
> >buffer cache, and I'm doing builds without touching disks..).  Some
> >really cool stuff is being worked on and is coming to a source tree
> >near you soon.
> >
> >   However, I'd like to take the opportunity to remind you all, that
> >the project does depend on CD and shirt sales to keep it alive.  Yes
> >you may not use a CD all the time, but the latest one is pretty cool.
> >
> >  So, short answer? go buy a CD.  pre-orders are a little slow this
> >release, and we need to see some more activity in that area.
>
> This may tie in to something I've noticed -- it's less than two weeks to
> the official release date of 4.9 but there's no sign that the CDs are
> shipping yet.  While there's no obligation for them to arrive before
> that date, usually we hear earlier than this that they're shipping.  Is
> there some delay?

Wow -- watch out, or you will kill the message.  I note you are inside
North America.  Packages inside North America can make it to their
destination in 3 days, 4 days tops.  It is April 18.  What are you
talking about?  Your CD order will arrive around the release time.
Probably before, as is usual, though noone ever promised that!

As well, I know that other distributors (including Liam in England)
will soon have CDs ready so that there can be a 'coordinated release'.
People on the other continents need to get a chance to be the first at
bragging.

Let's backtrack.  Bob is bringing up an important point (he mentioned
it publically after I mentioned it privately to him earlier, so I know
where this comes from).

Year on year, when it comes to money that keeps the project going,
nothing much has changed in this project.  I think people should
contrast our track record of 'good product' to our 'inability to sell
out'.  Unlike everyone else in the "open source industry", we continue
to operate on donations and CD sales ("money)".

We have kept "donations" and "money" seperated.  Donations fund the
things they can easily fund, and "money" funds the things they can
fund easily; we all know there are business/taxation rules to be
followed.  The donations primarily fund the hackathons (5-6 a year
these days) and travel assistance for the less fortunate developers to
those hackathons.  Great things come from those donations, from those
hackathons we are all running code that came out of them.  None of us
can contest that.

But without CD and tshirt sales, other parts of the project are in
trouble -- the things that are more difficult to fund out of
"donations".  And there is a further relationship: If not enough CDs
are sold in a release, there may be no further CDs made after that.
If there are no CDs made or sold, I don't know what will happen.  I
doubt donations could help us ever again "bootstrap" a CD release
process again.  I don't know where various aspects of the project
would go.  Of course everyone knows that part of the CD sales become
my salary (keeping me away from working for companies writing non-free
software perhaps, though I doubt I am employable).  But that is only
fair.  All of you eat, too.  I spend more time in front a keyboard
than most of you...

If things went bad financially, I don't know how I would cope with
such a big change.  I doubt the user community has a plan for that,
either.  If you are receiving this mail you are using OpenBSD or the
other things that our developer community have made, so please be
considerate and help us continue.  The donations are one thing, and
thank you -- but please remember that the sales component has to be
there too.

I am only a part of the CD sales money.  CD sales money keeps the
electrons flowing through cvs.openbsd.org.  Trust me, it is critical.

> Not that I have any particular standing, but FWIW, y'all please order a
> CD set if you haven't already done so.  OpenBSD has served me well for
> quite a few years, and I'd really like to see it continue -- and
> continue to improve.

Exactly -- let us continue doing this.

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

Dave Anderson-4
On Mon, 18 Apr 2011, Theo de Raadt wrote:

>> >   A number of you may have noticed the recent flurry of activity,
>> >leading to stuff like bigmem being turned on.. Some more good stuff is
>> >coming soon (my amd64 at my house is using 7 gigabyes of memory for
>> >buffer cache, and I'm doing builds without touching disks..).  Some
>> >really cool stuff is being worked on and is coming to a source tree
>> >near you soon.
>> >
>> >   However, I'd like to take the opportunity to remind you all, that
>> >the project does depend on CD and shirt sales to keep it alive.  Yes
>> >you may not use a CD all the time, but the latest one is pretty cool.
>> >
>> >  So, short answer? go buy a CD.  pre-orders are a little slow this
>> >release, and we need to see some more activity in that area.
>>
>> This may tie in to something I've noticed -- it's less than two weeks to
>> the official release date of 4.9 but there's no sign that the CDs are
>> shipping yet.  While there's no obligation for them to arrive before
>> that date, usually we hear earlier than this that they're shipping.  Is
>> there some delay?
>
>Wow -- watch out, or you will kill the message.

My apologies if my reply had any such effect; it certainly wasn't
intended to do that.

>                                                 I note you are inside
>North America.  Packages inside North America can make it to their
>destination in 3 days, 4 days tops.  It is April 18.  What are you
>talking about?  Your CD order will arrive around the release time.
>Probably before, as is usual, though noone ever promised that!

As I said, I believe that OpenBSD's only obligation is to get the
pre-order CD sets to us by the release date (and even that isn't
absolute, given that shit happens).  I was just interested in / curious
about why the pre-order process seemed to be working a bit differently
from the way it usually has.

>As well, I know that other distributors (including Liam in England)
>will soon have CDs ready so that there can be a 'coordinated release'.
>People on the other continents need to get a chance to be the first at
>bragging.

Thanks for the explanation.

        Dave

>Let's backtrack.  Bob is bringing up an important point (he mentioned
>it publically after I mentioned it privately to him earlier, so I know
>where this comes from).
>
>Year on year, when it comes to money that keeps the project going,
>nothing much has changed in this project.  I think people should
>contrast our track record of 'good product' to our 'inability to sell
>out'.  Unlike everyone else in the "open source industry", we continue
>to operate on donations and CD sales ("money)".
>
>We have kept "donations" and "money" seperated.  Donations fund the
>things they can easily fund, and "money" funds the things they can
>fund easily; we all know there are business/taxation rules to be
>followed.  The donations primarily fund the hackathons (5-6 a year
>these days) and travel assistance for the less fortunate developers to
>those hackathons.  Great things come from those donations, from those
>hackathons we are all running code that came out of them.  None of us
>can contest that.
>
>But without CD and tshirt sales, other parts of the project are in
>trouble -- the things that are more difficult to fund out of
>"donations".  And there is a further relationship: If not enough CDs
>are sold in a release, there may be no further CDs made after that.
>If there are no CDs made or sold, I don't know what will happen.  I
>doubt donations could help us ever again "bootstrap" a CD release
>process again.  I don't know where various aspects of the project
>would go.  Of course everyone knows that part of the CD sales become
>my salary (keeping me away from working for companies writing non-free
>software perhaps, though I doubt I am employable).  But that is only
>fair.  All of you eat, too.  I spend more time in front a keyboard
>than most of you...
>
>If things went bad financially, I don't know how I would cope with
>such a big change.  I doubt the user community has a plan for that,
>either.  If you are receiving this mail you are using OpenBSD or the
>other things that our developer community have made, so please be
>considerate and help us continue.  The donations are one thing, and
>thank you -- but please remember that the sales component has to be
>there too.
>
>I am only a part of the CD sales money.  CD sales money keeps the
>electrons flowing through cvs.openbsd.org.  Trust me, it is critical.
>
>> Not that I have any particular standing, but FWIW, y'all please order a
>> CD set if you haven't already done so.  OpenBSD has served me well for
>> quite a few years, and I'd really like to see it continue -- and
>> continue to improve.
>
>Exactly -- let us continue doing this.
>

--
Dave Anderson
<[hidden email]>

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

David Coppa
In reply to this post by Bob Beck-2
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 9:39 PM, Bob Beck <[hidden email]> wrote:

>   So - yes we like donations, but we also like CD sales.. now is the
> time to help out.

Order done on openbsdeurope.com. Sorry for being late.

cheers!
david

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

Martin Schröder
2011/4/19 David Coppa <[hidden email]>:
> Order done on openbsdeurope.com. Sorry for being late.

I have ordered from them and would do so again, but their
system has broken my account (again?) and the reset form
doesn't work for Germans (house name?).

A notice for whoever is responsible for the list of shops
on http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html :
- Lehmanns doesn't seem to sell OpenBSD anymore: the latest
  in the online shop is 4.7
- Linuxland has an invalid ssl cert and seems to sell
  *BSD only upon request
- The webshop at ixSoft just works. :-)

Best
   Martin

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

Guillaume Dualé-2
In reply to this post by David Coppa
On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:32:50 +0200, David Coppa <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 9:39 PM, Bob Beck <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>   So - yes we like donations, but we also like CD sales.. now is the
>> time to help out.
>
> Order done on openbsdeurope.com. Sorry for being late.
>
> cheers!
> david

Hi for Europeans,
you can order here too http://openbsd.otasc.org/   :-)

Enjoy !
Guillaume.

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

Glen Anderson
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
On 19 April 2011 03:17, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> But without CD and tshirt sales, other parts of the project are in
> trouble -- the things that are more difficult to fund out of
> "donations".

In the past I've stuck to ordering the CD set as the homepage states
that tshirt and poster sales do not fund the project. Is this no
longer the case for tshirts?

The only other thing that puts me off buying tshirts is that I've run
into difficulty with North American tshirt sizes in the past. I've
been unable to find detailed sizing informaion (length, chest etc.)
and it'd be a disappointment to order a tshirt that I couldn't make
use of.

> I am only a part of the CD sales money.  CD sales money keeps the
> electrons flowing through cvs.openbsd.org.  Trust me, it is critical.

Do older CD releases fund the project in the same way that newer CD
sets do? Ordering a bunch of older releases for my bookshelf (perhaps
not 2.4!) is another way I'd consider contributing to the "money" pot.

Likewise, there are many older posters and a couple of tshirts that
I'd snap up if they still fund the project in the same way.

I'm asking this as I've no idea what your agreements with your
distributors are (nor do I care); I'd just like the comfort of knowing
that any money I spend is funding the project in the way I
expect/intend.

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

Wayne Oliver
In reply to this post by Guillaume Dualé-2
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 19 Apr 2011, at 11:15 AM, Guillaume Duali wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:32:50 +0200, David Coppa <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 9:39 PM, Bob Beck <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>  So - yes we like donations, but we also like CD sales.. now is the
>>> time to help out.
>>
>> Order done on openbsdeurope.com. Sorry for being late.
>>
>> cheers!
>> david
>
> Hi for Europeans,
> you can order here too http://openbsd.otasc.org/   :-)

I placed an order recently for a few shirts and the book of pf.
Received the shirts so far still waiting for the book :-)

Gonna have to wait until the end of the month to order the latest CD.
(In African terms it's fairly costly but well worth it.)

Basically what I am saying is...
Are there any African distributors?

If not, I would be more than willing to help out with distributing in Africa.

Thanks
Wayne
iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNrVrPAAoJENzqTnPMiNZl27YIAL3JDnzDcJi4g494zzWj7Oq1
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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

Martin Schröder
In reply to this post by Martin Schröder
2011/4/19 Martin Schrvder <[hidden email]>:
> - Lehmanns doesn't seem to sell OpenBSD anymore: the latest
>  in the online shop is 4.7

Brainfart. Everything's fine with Lehmanns. :-)

Best
   Martin

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

foldingstock
In reply to this post by Bob Beck-2
>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 10:40:03 +0100
>From: Glen Anderson <[hidden email]>
>To: [hidden email]
>Cc: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really
need >to order

>a CD today :)
>Message-ID: <BANLkTinW=uHE2=[hidden email]>
>
>On 19 April 2011 03:17, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> But without CD and tshirt sales, other parts of the project are in
>> trouble -- the things that are more difficult to fund out of
>> "donations".
>
>In the past I've stuck to ordering the CD set as the homepage states
>that tshirt and poster sales do not fund the project. Is this no
>longer the case for tshirts?

I have made similar purchasing decisions and would also like to know if
t-shirt sales are now funding the project or are still kept as separate
sales. Any information would be much appreciated.

In [un]related news, I placed my pre-order as soon as pre-orders were
announced. :)

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

Theo de Raadt
> >On 19 April 2011 03:17, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> But without CD and tshirt sales, other parts of the project are in
> >> trouble -- the things that are more difficult to fund out of
> >> "donations".
> >
> >In the past I've stuck to ordering the CD set as the homepage states
> >that tshirt and poster sales do not fund the project. Is this no
> >longer the case for tshirts?
>
> I have made similar purchasing decisions and would also like to know if
> t-shirt sales are now funding the project or are still kept as separate
> sales. Any information would be much appreciated.

OK, here's that note you are asking for:

All sales fund the project in the same way.

In the past there was an arrangement (in particular, with Wim) so that
the tshirt sales would fund him while CD sales would fund us.  He
managed to rob is on that account in every possible way.  So have not
done that kind of arrangements for years.

Tshirt sales from Canada (the computer shop / https.openbsd.org) and
from the UK (openbsdeurope.com) fund the project just like the mugs,
the CD's, posters, etc..

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Glen Anderson
> On 19 April 2011 03:17, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > But without CD and tshirt sales, other parts of the project are in
> > trouble -- the things that are more difficult to fund out of
> > "donations".
>
> In the past I've stuck to ordering the CD set as the homepage states
> that tshirt and poster sales do not fund the project. Is this no
> longer the case for tshirts?

tshirt, poster, mug, and cd sales are handled the same.  They all
offset project costs in Canada.

> Do older CD releases fund the project in the same way that newer CD
> sets do?

Yes!

> Ordering a bunch of older releases for my bookshelf (perhaps
> not 2.4!) is another way I'd consider contributing to the "money" pot.

It is a great way.  Yes, some of the CDs we are almost out of are very
expensive, intentionally.  Some of them have been bought by people, so it
is a pretty easy way to fund the project.

> Likewise, there are many older posters and a couple of tshirts that
> I'd snap up if they still fund the project in the same way.

They all fund the project.

> I'm asking this as I've no idea what your agreements with your
> distributors are (nor do I care); I'd just like the comfort of knowing
> that any money I spend is funding the project in the way I
> expect/intend.

Income:
    The direct income from sales (Computer Shop (primarily) + distributors)
        -> Keeps the electrons flowing
        -> Keeps me from taking that cushy Microsoft job

Donations:
      The OpenBSD Foundation
        -> Funds the big hackathons and some smaller ones
        -> Funds the network links
      The paypal and european accounts
        -> Funds the remaining small hackathons
        -> Buys strange new pieces of hardware which are not donated

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

foldingstock
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
>> >On 19 April 2011 03:17, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> But without CD and tshirt sales, other parts of the project are in
>> >> trouble -- the things that are more difficult to fund out of
>> >> "donations".
>> >
>> >In the past I've stuck to ordering the CD set as the homepage states
>> >that tshirt and poster sales do not fund the project. Is this no
>> >longer the case for tshirts?
>>
>> I have made similar purchasing decisions and would also like to know if
>> t-shirt sales are now funding the project or are still kept as separate
>> sales. Any information would be much appreciated.
>
> OK, here's that note you are asking for:
>
> All sales fund the project in the same way.
>
> In the past there was an arrangement (in particular, with Wim) so that
> the tshirt sales would fund him while CD sales would fund us.  He
> managed to rob is on that account in every possible way.  So have not
> done that kind of arrangements for years.
>
> Tshirt sales from Canada (the computer shop / https.openbsd.org) and
> from the UK (openbsdeurope.com) fund the project just like the mugs,
> the CD's, posters, etc..
>
>

Thank you very much!

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

m brandenberg
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
On Tue, 19 Apr 2011, Theo de Raadt wrote:

> -> Keeps me from taking that cushy Microsoft job

Still...  This *would* produce some interesting news stories.

--
Monty Brandenberg

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

OpenBSD Europe
In reply to this post by Bob Beck-2
> On 19 April 2011 03:17, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> tshirt, poster, mug, and cd sales are handled the same.  They all
> offset project costs in Canada.

This is true for the hoodies too.

Sneak peek: http://imgur.com/IJrYb

(The image doesn't include the Kangaroo pockets which they have)

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

Amit Kulkarni-5
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
>        -> Keeps me from taking that cushy Microsoft job

Theo,
Don't go over to the dark side. Stay aloof and kick everybody's ass.
We need somebody to show that their marketing is mostly iAir. Now that
you have given clear information about the updated status, I am sure
many more would ante up.

Thanks

> Donations:
>      The OpenBSD Foundation
>        -> Funds the big hackathons and some smaller ones
>        -> Funds the network links
>      The paypal and european accounts
>        -> Funds the remaining small hackathons
>        -> Buys strange new pieces of hardware which are not donated

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

Kevin Chadwick-2
In reply to this post by m brandenberg
On Tue, 19 Apr 2011 11:18:59 -0400 (EDT)
m brandenberg wrote:

> Still...  This *would* produce some interesting news stories.

Can you imagine the internal memos just before an underground crypto
department was born, like the rogue directX dept.. (except not so
damaging to the industry)

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Re: Like OpenBSD? Like to see new stuff happening? You really need to order a CD today :)

Glen Anderson
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
On 19 April 2011 15:27, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> On 19 April 2011 03:17, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > But without CD and tshirt sales, other parts of the project are in
>> > trouble -- the things that are more difficult to fund out of
>> > "donations".
>>
>> In the past I've stuck to ordering the CD set as the homepage states
>> that tshirt and poster sales do not fund the project. Is this no
>> longer the case for tshirts?
>
> tshirt, poster, mug, and cd sales are handled the same.  They all
> offset project costs in Canada.
>
>> Do older CD releases fund the project in the same way that newer CD
>> sets do?
>
> Yes!
>
>> Ordering a bunch of older releases for my bookshelf (perhaps
>> not 2.4!) is another way I'd consider contributing to the "money" pot.
>
> It is a great way.  Yes, some of the CDs we are almost out of are very
> expensive, intentionally.  Some of them have been bought by people, so it
> is a pretty easy way to fund the project.
>
>> Likewise, there are many older posters and a couple of tshirts that
>> I'd snap up if they still fund the project in the same way.
>
> They all fund the project.
>
>> I'm asking this as I've no idea what your agreements with your
>> distributors are (nor do I care); I'd just like the comfort of knowing
>> that any money I spend is funding the project in the way I
>> expect/intend.
>
> Income:
>    The direct income from sales (Computer Shop (primarily) + distributors)
>        -> Keeps the electrons flowing
>        -> Keeps me from taking that cushy Microsoft job
>
> Donations:
>      The OpenBSD Foundation
>        -> Funds the big hackathons and some smaller ones
>        -> Funds the network links
>      The paypal and european accounts
>        -> Funds the remaining small hackathons
>        -> Buys strange new pieces of hardware which are not donated
>

Thanks for the clarification Theo. FWIW I'd have purchased a poster
with 4.8/4.9 if the home/donations/orders pages had included the
above.

Time to make some enquiries about shipping!

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