Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

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Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

Dinesh Thirumurthy
Dear Everyone,

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Mikko Laine <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in
> Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case.


I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo.
It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea
implemented.

So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll.

The poll is at https://doodle.com/poll/rbg53x3dyd7i4y5d

Thanks very much.

Regards,
Dinesh Thirumurthy
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Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

Ingo Schwarze-2
Hi,

Dinesh Thirumurthy wrote on Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 11:35:29PM +0530:
> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Mikko Laine <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in
>> Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case.

> I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo.

I think you are coming dangerously close to becoming an impostor.
You are not an OpenBSD developer, so i don't think you have any
business requesting services for OpenBSD from third parties.

Of course, everybody is free to redistribute the OpenBSD source code.
But that doesn't mean doing so is a good idea when you have no reason
whatsoever.  Unofficial distribution can cause confusion as to which
version is reliable.  Who is going to maintain the offshoot you are
cobbling together?  *You* obviously cannot be trusted.  It will soon
become orphaned and a distraction.

If you want to tell people to play with OpenBSD, tell them to do
it the OpenBSD way.  Stop your whining, your github-fanboy-attitude,
and your annoying chatter and distractive campaining, tell people to
use CVS, and start doing some real work instead.

If the VCS seems so important to you that you think OpenBSD is
unusable with CVS, your priorities are completely screwed up, so
just stop using it and go use Windows or Linux or whatever.

Yours,
  Ingo

--
Ingo Schwarze <[hidden email]>

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Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

Christoph R. Murauer
In reply to this post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
Hello !

> I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git
> repo.
> It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea
> implemented.

See https://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html in detail Setting up an
anoncvs mirror

There you can read for a complete mirror ... Anoncvs mirrors currently
require about 6GB of disk (and it will grow!),

For my understanding, why should I get src from your git mirror if I
need for ports www xenocara CVS ?

Would it not be a better idea to run a CVS mirror (if one is needed)
and provide also git if people really need it ?

IMHO CVS works fine for me so, why demonstarte that git works ?

Regards,

Christoph


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Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

Michael Hekeler
In reply to this post by Dinesh Thirumurthy

>
> So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll.

The poll is "We want an OpenBSD Source Repository"????
Really???

But there are multiple source code mirrors.
Even anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org isn't located in US.

German mirrors are located in nuernberg and frankfurt.

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Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

Jordan Geoghegan
In reply to this post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
This doesn't make sense. This seems like a whole lot of effort for very
little return. What is wrong with any of the ~dozen cvs mirrors
available that aren't located in the states? This seems like a huge
duplication of effort.

Why not do some testing to find the speediest mirror relative to your
location, and then use all the extra effort you saved on something more
productive?


On 12/28/17 10:05, Dinesh Thirumurthy wrote:

> Dear Everyone,
>
> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Mikko Laine <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in
>> Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case.
>
> I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo.
> It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea
> implemented.
>
> So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll.
>
> The poll is at https://doodle.com/poll/rbg53x3dyd7i4y5d
>
> Thanks very much.
>
> Regards,
> Dinesh Thirumurthy

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Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

Dinesh Thirumurthy
In reply to this post by Michael Hekeler
Dear Mike and others,

OpenBSD is great project. It should reach every country equally.
That is called "Parity". Rest of the world is at par with USA and Canada.

Have a look at this picture today

https://github.com/hakrtech/readme/blob/master/global-outlook.png

If you provide git protocol access to USA and Canada.
I want git protocol access for Australia, Russia, Japan, Congo, Netherlands
and Rest of the World.

If you give Mr.Tom at San Francisco git access to src,
and Mr. Dick at Vancouver git access to src,
then Harry at London should also have equal or equivalent access.

Since we cannot provide equal access. Provide equivalent access. Simple
Idea Really.

Equivalent implies get a non US box up and running with git hosting of
openbsd src.

Currently, we are telling Mr.Harry, - You should not access src via our git
channel.
People in other countries have forked and cloned. Give them/us/me another
box
where we can get legally too via the same protocol.

Parity. Good idea.

Kindly think this over.

Dinesh

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Michael Hekeler <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
> >
> > So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll.
>
> The poll is "We want an OpenBSD Source Repository"????
> Really???
>
> But there are multiple source code mirrors.
> Even anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org isn't located in US.
>
> German mirrors are located in nuernberg and frankfurt.
>
>
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Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

Theo de Raadt-2
In reply to this post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
Dinesh --

everything you say below is a giganic pile of dung.  We make all our
software available to everyone.  The internet spans the planet.

You are making stuff up, and it is not appreciated how you appear to
be misrepresenting the project.

Please go fluff up your sense of selfworth elsewhere.


>OpenBSD is great project. It should reach every country equally.
>That is called "Parity". Rest of the world is at par with USA and Canada.
>
>Have a look at this picture today
>
>https://github.com/hakrtech/readme/blob/master/global-outlook.png
>
>If you provide git protocol access to USA and Canada.
>I want git protocol access for Australia, Russia, Japan, Congo, Netherlands
>and Rest of the World.
>
>If you give Mr.Tom at San Francisco git access to src,
>and Mr. Dick at Vancouver git access to src,
>then Harry at London should also have equal or equivalent access.
>
>Since we cannot provide equal access. Provide equivalent access. Simple
>Idea Really.
>
>Equivalent implies get a non US box up and running with git hosting of
>openbsd src.
>
>Currently, we are telling Mr.Harry, - You should not access src via our git
>channel.
>People in other countries have forked and cloned. Give them/us/me another
>box
>where we can get legally too via the same protocol.
>
>Parity. Good idea.
>
>Kindly think this over.
>
>Dinesh
>
>On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Michael Hekeler <[hidden email]>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> >
>> > So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll.
>>
>> The poll is "We want an OpenBSD Source Repository"????
>> Really???
>>
>> But there are multiple source code mirrors.
>> Even anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org isn't located in US.
>>
>> German mirrors are located in nuernberg and frankfurt.
>>
>>
>

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Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

Kai Wetlesen
In reply to this post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
Dinesh,

Short answer: No.

Long answer: I speak on behalf of myself only. Just what exactly is wrong
with the already existing CVS? Why is a Git repo required?

Learn CVS, then teach it to your students.

~Kai

> On Dec 28, 2017, at 10:05, Dinesh Thirumurthy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Dear Everyone,
>
>> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Mikko Laine <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in
>> Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case.
>
>
> I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo.
> It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea
> implemented.
>
> So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll.
>
> The poll is at https://doodle.com/poll/rbg53x3dyd7i4y5d
>
> Thanks very much.
>
> Regards,
> Dinesh Thirumurthy

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Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

Josh Stephens
Dinesh

  Can you not host your own git server and just do a nightly cvs import into that git server? Or am i missing something here to this conversation?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2017, at 5:16 PM, Kai Wetlesen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Dinesh,
>
> Short answer: No.
>
> Long answer: I speak on behalf of myself only. Just what exactly is wrong
> with the already existing CVS? Why is a Git repo required?
>
> Learn CVS, then teach it to your students.
>
> ~Kai
>
>> On Dec 28, 2017, at 10:05, Dinesh Thirumurthy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Everyone,
>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Mikko Laine <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in
>>> Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case.
>>
>>
>> I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo.
>> It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea
>> implemented.
>>
>> So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll.
>>
>> The poll is at https://doodle.com/poll/rbg53x3dyd7i4y5d
>>
>> Thanks very much.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dinesh Thirumurthy
>

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Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

Consus-2
In reply to this post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
On 23:35 Thu 28 Dec, Dinesh Thirumurthy wrote:

> Dear Everyone,
>
> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Mikko Laine <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in
> > Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case.
>
>
> I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo.
> It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea
> implemented.
>
> So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll.
>
> The poll is at https://doodle.com/poll/rbg53x3dyd7i4y5d
>
> Thanks very much.

There is a github mirror already, nah?

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Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

Stuart Henderson
In reply to this post by Dinesh Thirumurthy
On 2017-12-29, Dinesh Thirumurthy <[hidden email]> wrote:
> OpenBSD is great project. It should reach every country equally.

It does. Full repository with commit history is available and,
very unusually for an OS, this is not dependent on the USA.

Now that most open source projects provide repository access it's easy
to forget, but open repo access was not the norm - OpenBSD pioneered it.
https://www.openbsd.org/papers/anoncvs-paper.pdf

> Have a look at this picture today
>
> https://github.com/hakrtech/readme/blob/master/global-outlook.png
>
> If you provide git protocol access to USA and Canada.
> I want git protocol access for Australia, Russia, Japan, Congo, Netherlands
> and Rest of the World.

Why focus on the access method? The code and history are the important
things.

So the git conversion is an experimental conversion of part of the
information in the cvs repository (no branches/tags) which is pushed
to github. It's not using OpenBSD project resources for hosting and
I doubt it would be publically available if we had to deal with
actually hosting it.

Hosting a large git repository is not trivial, it uses far more server
resources (memory and cpu time) than an anoncvs/cvsync/rsync mirror, and
OpenBSD src/ (or even just ports/) is *huge* for a git repo. It works
better on Linux where things are more separated. Even *just the kernel*
is split across multiple repos.

> Since we cannot provide equal access.

Equal access to the git conversion would be trivial. Just delete it.
There, now nobody has access, it's equal.

Anyway, has anyone fetched your openbsd-src0-test repo from github while
crossing crypto export boundaries? That has the exact same issue,
except that now as it's your repo, it may well be considered that it's
*you* that is responsible for exporting it.

I'm not sure if your suggestion of a server in Germany would help.
Have you looked into export regulations from there? (Not sure which are
relevant but things like the Wassenaar Arrangement would be the place to
start looking).


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Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

Lari Rasku
On 01/02/18 14:03, Stuart Henderson wrote:
> Hosting a large git repository is not trivial, it uses far more server
> resources (memory and cpu time) than an anoncvs/cvsync/rsync mirror, and
> OpenBSD src/ (or even just ports/) is *huge* for a git repo. It works
> better on Linux where things are more separated. Even *just the kernel*
> is split across multiple repos.

The Linux kernel repo is multiple times the size of OpenBSD-src [1],
so I don't see how things being more separated helps them re: hosting.
Perhaps kernel.org just has more hardware to throw at the problem?

And in case anyone else was confused, the Linux kernel itself isn't split
across multiple repos: you can build a fully functional one from a single
checkout.  It is the kernel *development* that is split across multiple
repos, with occasional merges to mainline.

[1]: Naive estimate based on comparing object counts when cloning from
     GitHub:
     https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/ - 5,779,337 objects,
     https://github.com/openbsd/src - 1,741,047 objects.

> Anyway, has anyone fetched your openbsd-src0-test repo from github while
> crossing crypto export boundaries? That has the exact same issue,
> except that now as it's your repo, it may well be considered that it's
> *you* that is responsible for exporting it.

Surely the responsibility for exporting lies with the one doing the
checkout?  Otherwise I don't see how operators of OpenBSD CVS mirrors
in the US aren't in the same position.

Or is there some technical distinction between "mirroring" and "checking out"
a repository?  (I ask because the warning against fetching sources from USA
when located outside North America only appears on
https://www.openbsd.org/cvsync.html, not https://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html
or https://www.openbsd.org/ftp.html.)

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Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

Stuart Henderson
On 2018-01-06, Lari Rasku <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 01/02/18 14:03, Stuart Henderson wrote:
>> Hosting a large git repository is not trivial, it uses far more server
>> resources (memory and cpu time) than an anoncvs/cvsync/rsync mirror, and
>> OpenBSD src/ (or even just ports/) is *huge* for a git repo. It works
>> better on Linux where things are more separated. Even *just the kernel*
>> is split across multiple repos.
>
> The Linux kernel repo is multiple times the size of OpenBSD-src [1],
> so I don't see how things being more separated helps them re: hosting.
> Perhaps kernel.org just has more hardware to throw at the problem?
>
> And in case anyone else was confused, the Linux kernel itself isn't split
> across multiple repos: you can build a fully functional one from a single
> checkout.  It is the kernel *development* that is split across multiple
> repos, with occasional merges to mainline.
>
> [1]: Naive estimate based on comparing object counts when cloning from
>      GitHub:
>      https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/ - 5,779,337 objects,

Ah thanks, I didn't manage to track that down with the 850 others :)

>      https://github.com/openbsd/src - 1,741,047 objects.

When I've tried converting in the past I've had things like it taking
about a minute to do a git log, even after the git repack that people
familiar with git suggested I try.

>> Anyway, has anyone fetched your openbsd-src0-test repo from github while
>> crossing crypto export boundaries? That has the exact same issue,
>> except that now as it's your repo, it may well be considered that it's
>> *you* that is responsible for exporting it.
>
> Surely the responsibility for exporting lies with the one doing the
> checkout?  Otherwise I don't see how operators of OpenBSD CVS mirrors
> in the US aren't in the same position.
>
> Or is there some technical distinction between "mirroring" and "checking out"
> a repository?  (I ask because the warning against fetching sources from USA
> when located outside North America only appears on
> https://www.openbsd.org/cvsync.html, not https://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html
> or https://www.openbsd.org/ftp.html.)

I don't know all the details. But the github page about it at
https://help.github.com/articles/github-and-export-controls/
makes it sound like it's the repo owner's responsibility to me.


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Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

Bobby Foster
Reminds me of this article:
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/bharry/2017/05/24/the-largest-git-repo-on-the-planet/

"As a refresher, the Windows code base is approximately 3.5M files and,
when checked in to a Git repo, results in a repo of about 300GB...  Before
the move to Git, in Source Depot, it was spread across 40+ depots and we
had a tool to manage operations that spanned them."`

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 4:13 PM, Stuart Henderson <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On 2018-01-06, Lari Rasku <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 01/02/18 14:03, Stuart Henderson wrote:
> >> Hosting a large git repository is not trivial, it uses far more server
> >> resources (memory and cpu time) than an anoncvs/cvsync/rsync mirror, and
> >> OpenBSD src/ (or even just ports/) is *huge* for a git repo. It works
> >> better on Linux where things are more separated. Even *just the kernel*
> >> is split across multiple repos.
> >
> > The Linux kernel repo is multiple times the size of OpenBSD-src [1],
> > so I don't see how things being more separated helps them re: hosting.
> > Perhaps kernel.org just has more hardware to throw at the problem?
> >
> > And in case anyone else was confused, the Linux kernel itself isn't split
> > across multiple repos: you can build a fully functional one from a single
> > checkout.  It is the kernel *development* that is split across multiple
> > repos, with occasional merges to mainline.
> >
> > [1]: Naive estimate based on comparing object counts when cloning from
> >      GitHub:
> >      https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/
> - 5,779,337 objects,
>
> Ah thanks, I didn't manage to track that down with the 850 others :)
>
> >      https://github.com/openbsd/src - 1,741,047 objects.
>
> When I've tried converting in the past I've had things like it taking
> about a minute to do a git log, even after the git repack that people
> familiar with git suggested I try.
>
> >> Anyway, has anyone fetched your openbsd-src0-test repo from github while
> >> crossing crypto export boundaries? That has the exact same issue,
> >> except that now as it's your repo, it may well be considered that it's
> >> *you* that is responsible for exporting it.
> >
> > Surely the responsibility for exporting lies with the one doing the
> > checkout?  Otherwise I don't see how operators of OpenBSD CVS mirrors
> > in the US aren't in the same position.
> >
> > Or is there some technical distinction between "mirroring" and "checking
> out"
> > a repository?  (I ask because the warning against fetching sources from
> USA
> > when located outside North America only appears on
> > https://www.openbsd.org/cvsync.html, not https://www.openbsd.org/
> anoncvs.html
> > or https://www.openbsd.org/ftp.html.)
>
> I don't know all the details. But the github page about it at
> https://help.github.com/articles/github-and-export-controls/
> makes it sound like it's the repo owner's responsibility to me.
>
>
>
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Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

Lari Rasku
In reply to this post by Lari Rasku
On 01/06/18 18:23, Lari Rasku wrote:
> The Linux kernel repo is multiple times the size of OpenBSD-src [1],

> [1]: Naive estimate based on comparing object counts when cloning from
>      GitHub:
>      https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/ - 5,779,337 objects,
>      https://github.com/openbsd/src - 1,741,047 objects.

I need to correct myself here.  The naive estimate is misleading: I took
some time today to clone both repositories in full and found that a full
checkout of openbsd/src weights in at 953 MiB, and linux.git at 1.1 GiB
(obtained by running du -sh on the .git directory).  So the difference
isn't as overwhelming as just counting objects would suggest.  (Surprising
to see that the average OpenBSD Git object is almost thrice the size of a
Linux one, though.)

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Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!

Ingo Schwarze
Hi,

Lari Rasku wrote on Tue, Jan 09, 2018 at 09:58:04PM +0200:

> (Surprising to see that the average OpenBSD Git object is almost
> thrice the size of a Linux one, though.)

Comparing apples with oranges: Linux is a kernel, OpenBSD src
contains userland.

Linux-land stuff is famous for excessive abstraction.
OpenBSD values simplicity and avoids abstraction where possible.
I wouldn't be surprised if that results in larger files actually
doing some real work and in a lesser amount of shallow scaffolding.
Pure speculation, though, spending time to find out for real is hardly
worthwhile, i think.

Yours,
  Ingo