Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

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Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

ropers
Does anybody here have a fanless laptop they run OpenBSD on?
(Possibly even as their primary computer? How poor of a desktop replacement
is it?)

If not, is there anything that comes close (and how much can I not afford
it)?

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

bytevolcano
I do have a Panasonic Toughbook CF-30 which doesn't have a fan, I have
successfully run -current on it.
If you want something more modern, but a bit smaller, the CF-19 may be
a good choice. It is a bit small though.

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:03:37 +0200
ropers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Does anybody here have a fanless laptop they run OpenBSD on?
> (Possibly even as their primary computer? How poor of a desktop
> replacement is it?)
>
> If not, is there anything that comes close (and how much can I not
> afford it)?

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

lists-2
In reply to this post by ropers
Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:03:37 +0200 ropers <[hidden email]>
> Does anybody here have a fanless laptop they run OpenBSD on?
> (Possibly even as their primary computer? How poor of a desktop replacement
> is it?)

For a true no moving parts passive cooling system, you're out of luck
with the desktop replacement idea.  Unless your desktop is running in
the wireless network you connect to.  Basically, you're asking in the
10-20W form factor machine, which can function on convection with low
CPU frequency even when it blocks due to failed maintenance: atom CPU.

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

bytevolcano
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 03:21:40 +0300
[hidden email] wrote:

> Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:03:37 +0200 ropers <[hidden email]>
> > Does anybody here have a fanless laptop they run OpenBSD on?
> > (Possibly even as their primary computer? How poor of a desktop
> > replacement is it?)  
>
> For a true no moving parts passive cooling system, you're out of luck
> with the desktop replacement idea.  Unless your desktop is running in
> the wireless network you connect to.  Basically, you're asking in the
> 10-20W form factor machine, which can function on convection with low
> CPU frequency even when it blocks due to failed maintenance: atom CPU.
>

In a lot of ways though, that depends on what a "desktop" really is to
you. For instance, you can have a "desktop" in which all you do is
email, a bit of web browsing here and there, and office work. That
doesn't need much power, so those 10-20W machines are perfect for this.

On the other hand, those types of machines are useless for high-end
video editing, which may be what a "desktop" is to you.

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

joekiser-2
In reply to this post by ropers
On Sat, Jun 11, 2016, at 13:03, ropers wrote:
> Does anybody here have a fanless laptop they run OpenBSD on?
> (Possibly even as their primary computer? How poor of a desktop
> replacement
> is it?)
>
> If not, is there anything that comes close (and how much can I not afford
> it)?
>

For desktop fanless, one can purchase a Broadwell Intel NUC and place it
in an aftermarket Akasa case. These are laptop-class processors in a
small desktop form factor. For more performance, there is the CompuLab
AirTop which I run exclusively with -stable, which is passively cooled
with a true desktop-class Haswell processor. Everything works, and the
machine is cool to the touch.

For fanless laptops, I have ordered a used HP Stream laptop for travel
which is completely fanless. I have not received it yet to try with
OpenBSD, but am working under the assumption that I would need a Wifi
dongle at the very least. The most powerful in the fanless laptop
category is probably the ASUS Zenbook UX305 or the new MacBook.

- joekiser

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

lists-2
In reply to this post by bytevolcano
Sun, 12 Jun 2016 11:07:24 +1000 <[hidden email]>
> On the other hand, those types of machines are useless for high-end
> video editing, which may be what a "desktop" is to you.

That's one very complex thought, hold it, keep still, don't move an inch.
No machine is useless, it's the operator that makes use of it, go figure.

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

bytevolcano
Allow me to explain that complex thought.

I didn't say that all machines are useless, nor did I say that any
machine is useless. One machine that is useful for Purpose #1 is
useless for Purpose #2; likewise, the machine that works well for
Purpose #2 is quite possibly useless for Purpose #1.

There may be a good replacement for a machine that can do Purpose #1,
but not one that can work for both #1 and #2.

What I was trying to say was that the term "desktop" in this context is
a very broad term; one person's idea of a desktop replacement is
going to be very different to another person's idea of a desktop
replacement.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 09:46:00 +0300
[hidden email] wrote:

> Sun, 12 Jun 2016 11:07:24 +1000 <[hidden email]>
> > On the other hand, those types of machines are useless for high-end
> > video editing, which may be what a "desktop" is to you.  
>
> That's one very complex thought, hold it, keep still, don't move an
> inch. No machine is useless, it's the operator that makes use of it,
> go figure.

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

bytevolcano
In reply to this post by bytevolcano
Thanks for all the private personal attacks and abusive messages such
as this one, Wrant. Really appreciate it.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 13:46:47 +0300
[hidden email] wrote:

> Shithead.  Get lost.  You're on auto-delete.  You don't exist.

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

Jorge Castillo
> Wrant. Really appreciate it.

Just ignore it, you can't let an isolated response taint your view of the
mailing list! I wish I could help you, but I don't know an answer to your
question.

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

ropers
Compiled for myself and the archives:

< Fanless OpenBSD-capable (probably) laptops >

Some of these specs/prices highly uncertain/unreliable/subject to change.
Interface abundance decreases from top to bottom.
Toughbooks don't seem to have built-in mics, which may be a plus for the
practical paranoid.
Some CF-30s have higher, some CF-19s have lower specs and prices -- very
variable.
Not sure if OpenBSD is installable on MacBook in particular.

Special thanks to bytovolcano and joekiser.

* Panasonic Toughbook CF-30: Core(2) Duo 1.6GHz, 1GB RAM, 80GB HDD, 13.3"
(1,024 x 768) 96 ppi :: used $180+
* Panasonic Toughbook CF-19: Core i5 2.7GHz, 4GB RAM 500GB HDD, 10.1" (1024
x 768) 127 ppi :: used $180-500?
* HP Stream: Celeron 2.16GHz, 2GB RAM, 32GB eMMC, 11.6" (1366 x 768) 135
ppi :: ~£179
* Asus ZenBook UX305F: Core M 800 MHz, 8GB RAM, 128GB SDD, 13.3" (1920 x
1080) 166 ppi :: ~£650
* Apple MacBook: Core m3-m5 1.1-1.2GHz, 8GB RAM, 256-512GB SDD, 12" (2304 x
1440) 226 ppi :: £1,049-£1,299

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

lists-2
Sun, 12 Jun 2016 23:48:33 +0200 ropers <[hidden email]>
> Compiled for myself and the archives:

For you only, the archives deserve much better: higher quality threads.

> < Fanless OpenBSD-capable (probably) laptops >

You're in for a LOT of disappointment if you follow marketing material
without dmesg and live field use reports.  This is the OpenBSD "misc@"
mailing list, and it is expected people consult these archives for real
useful correct quality information.  Or at least minimum attempts at it.

From a future visitor perspective this thread should be ignored.  It
would not make a happy future OpenBSD developer, not even a BSD user.

This is mostly incomplete self oriented desktop companion media centre
laptop incompetence all around.  Pretty lame.  Skip it, ask for dmesgs
on actively usable for development or alternatively a "communications"
devices from actual OpenBSD people, and not sales pitching affiliates.

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

noah pugsley-3
On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 4:21 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sun, 12 Jun 2016 23:48:33 +0200 ropers <[hidden email]>
> > Compiled for myself and the archives:
>
> For you only, the archives deserve much better: higher quality threads.
>
> > < Fanless OpenBSD-capable (probably) laptops >
>
> You're in for a LOT of disappointment if you follow marketing material
> without dmesg and live field use reports.  This is the OpenBSD "misc@"
> mailing list, and it is expected people consult these archives for real
> useful correct quality information.  Or at least minimum attempts at it.
>
> From a future visitor perspective this thread should be ignored.  It
> would not make a happy future OpenBSD developer, not even a BSD user.
>
> This is mostly incomplete self oriented desktop companion media centre
> laptop incompetence all around.  Pretty lame.  Skip it, ask for dmesgs
> on actively usable for development or alternatively a "communications"
> devices from actual OpenBSD people, and not sales pitching affiliates.
>
>
I don't speak for this list, but for some reason you seem to think you do.

I wonder what someone with some authority here might say?

Oh wait, we have an example from less than a year ago:

"Wrant.. Go away. If you had any experience as a real developer on
anything you would understand the message to wait until the API is
stable, otherwise we're just wasting people's time and effort.

Your attitude is offensive  to all of us who work on this project.

Please take your ungratefulness and sense of entitlement to another project.
I'm sure there are Linux distributions you would get more out of.

Get off our mailing lists, or shut the fuck up. Your choice.

-Bob"

http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=143750853704661&w=2

NOBODY WANTS YOU OR YOUR SHITTY ATTITUDE HERE.

Fuck off, be silent or be ignored.

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

bytevolcano
In reply to this post by lists-2
If you can't read the question properly, please remain silent.

On Mon, 13 Jun 2016 02:21:48 +0300
[hidden email] wrote:

> For you only, the archives deserve much better: higher quality
> threads.
...

> You're in for a LOT of disappointment if you follow marketing material
> without dmesg and live field use reports.  This is the OpenBSD "misc@"
> mailing list, and it is expected people consult these archives for
> real useful correct quality information.  Or at least minimum
> attempts at it.
>
> From a future visitor perspective this thread should be ignored.  It
> would not make a happy future OpenBSD developer, not even a BSD user.
>
> This is mostly incomplete self oriented desktop companion media centre
> laptop incompetence all around.  Pretty lame.  Skip it, ask for dmesgs
> on actively usable for development or alternatively a "communications"
> devices from actual OpenBSD people, and not sales pitching affiliates.

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

lists-2
In reply to this post by noah pugsley-3
> > Sun, 12 Jun 2016 23:48:33 +0200 ropers <[hidden email]>  
> > > Compiled for myself and the archives:  
> >
> > For you only, the archives deserve much better: higher quality threads.
> >  
> > > < Fanless OpenBSD-capable (probably) laptops >  
> >
> > You're in for a LOT of disappointment if you follow marketing material
> > without dmesg and live field use reports.  This is the OpenBSD "misc@"
> > mailing list, and it is expected people consult these archives for real
> > useful correct quality information.  Or at least minimum attempts at it.
> >
> > From a future visitor perspective this thread should be ignored.  It
> > would not make a happy future OpenBSD developer, not even a BSD user.
> >
> > This is mostly incomplete self oriented desktop companion media centre
> > laptop incompetence all around.  Pretty lame.  Skip it, ask for dmesgs
> > on actively usable for development or alternatively a "communications"
> > devices from actual OpenBSD people, and not sales pitching affiliates.

Sun, 12 Jun 2016 18:23:56 -0700 noah pugsley <[hidden email]>
> Your attitude is offensive  to all of us who work on this project.

It is not a good idea to mix topics, stay focused and think before send.

Attitude is formed based on intelligence of email postings.  We all know
highly educated people can disagree without negative feelings.  Grow up.

I encourage you to keep posting until you meet the quality expectations.

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

bytevolcano
On Mon, 13 Jun 2016 05:25:17 +0300
[hidden email] wrote:

> ... until you meet the quality expectations.

Irony mode ACTIVATE.

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

lists-2
Mon, 13 Jun 2016 13:07:14 +1000 <[hidden email]>
> Irony mode ACTIVATE.

Exactly: ignore this entire mediocre thread, search the archive instead.

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

lists-2
> On 13 June 2016 at 05:29, <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > ignore this entire mediocre thread, search the archive instead.

Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:25:29 +0200 ropers <[hidden email]>
> I did.

This is a lie.  You created the thread on purpose with wrong definitions.
This is towards future readers, based on the fact that the value is zero.

> The real reason why you responded to me as you did was because I had
> thanked a person you had insulted earlier.

The low rating of the thread is because you did not review the archives,
did not do your home work before posting & the after work was marketing.

You thanked people for helping you fulfil your job of spamming the list.

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

bytevolcano
In reply to this post by lists-2
I'll see what I can get for you, ropers. In the mean while, I can say
that most of the devices on my CF-30 and CF-31 function well, as
indicated by the dmesg. Then again, they only have basic options on
those laptops.

On Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:25:29 +0200
ropers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Also, while dmesg requests aren't a bad idea (bytevolcano? pretty plz?
> joekiser? when available?), ...

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

phessler
In reply to this post by lists-2
On 2016 Jun 13 (Mon) at 05:25:17 +0300 (+0300), [hidden email] wrote:
:It is not a good idea to mix topics, stay focused and think before send.
:
:Attitude is formed based on intelligence of email postings.  We all know
:highly educated people can disagree without negative feelings.  Grow up.
:
:I encourage you to keep posting until you meet the quality expectations.
:

Wrant: Your actions are offensive to the community in general, and
specifically to those you respond to.

Stop replying to mails on this list.

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Re: Is there such a thing as a fanless OpenBSD-capable laptop?

lists-2
> :It is not a good idea to mix topics, stay focused and think before send.
> :
> :Attitude is formed based on intelligence of email postings.  We all know
> :highly educated people can disagree without negative feelings.  Grow up.
> :
> :I encourage you to keep posting until you meet the quality expectations.
> :
>
> Wrant: Your actions are offensive to the community in general, and
> specifically to those you respond to.
>
> Stop replying to mails on this list.

To this thread I agree not to reply any more unless provoked directly.
There is at least one future reader I have not managed to offend yet..

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