Installer overwrites partition table

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
23 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Installer overwrites partition table

Bertram Scharpf
Hi,

first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a
heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk
space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD.

The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant
that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately
stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was
overwritten.

The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups.
But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe
operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu.

Bertram


--
Bertram Scharpf
Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany
http://www.bertram-scharpf.de

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

Stefan Sperling-5
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 01:15:29PM +0200, Bertram Scharpf wrote:

> Hi,
>
> first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a
> heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk
> space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD.
>
> The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant
> that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately
> stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was
> overwritten.
>
> The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups.
> But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe
> operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu.
>
> Bertram

http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Multibooting

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

Kamil Cholewiński
In reply to this post by Bertram Scharpf
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016, Bertram Scharpf <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a
> heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk
> space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD.
>
> The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant
> that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately
> stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was
> overwritten.
>
> The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups.
> But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe
> operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu.
>
> Bertram
>
>
> --
> Bertram Scharpf
> Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany
> http://www.bertram-scharpf.de

- You have unused disk space. Rather than spinning up a VM to play in,
  you've instead opted for letting a new OS, that you have no experience
  with, access and modify the raw disk bits.

- You've tried installing the aforementioned new and unknown OS, on a
  disk that had other important data, that was already governed by
  another OS.

To me, that doesn't sound like what an experienced user would do.

<3,K.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

Richard Thornton-2
‎It's true that OpenBSD works wonderfully under VMware, especially under a
Linux host.   It's so good in fact, I see no logical reason to use OpenBSD
any other‎ way because it frees me from driver & firmware he'll; it's true
that native performance is probably better, but now I can use OpenBSD as I
wish, and still have time for other work.

.
  Original Message  
From: Kamil Cholewiński
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:43 AM
To: Bertram Scharpf; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Installer overwrites partition table

On Wed, 24 Aug 2016, Bertram Scharpf <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a
> heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk
> space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD.
>
> The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant
> that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately
> stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was
> overwritten.
>
> The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups.
> But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe
> operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu.
>
> Bertram
>
>
> --
> Bertram Scharpf
> Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany
> http://www.bertram-scharpf.de

- You have unused disk space. Rather than spinning up a VM to play in,
you've instead opted for letting a new OS, that you have no experience
with, access and modify the raw disk bits.

- You've tried installing the aforementioned new and unknown OS, on a
disk that had other important data, that was already governed by
another OS.

To me, that doesn't sound like what an experienced user would do.

<3,K.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

Nick Holland
In reply to this post by Bertram Scharpf
On 08/24/16 07:15, Bertram Scharpf wrote:
> Hi,
>
> first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a
> heck of partitioning in my life.

claim.  And re-installing windows twenty times counts as one OS.
Installing Linux five times counts as another.

> Now I had some unused disk
> space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD.

pretty well disproves your claim.
Most people who have some multiple OS experience understand that your
first install should be to dedicated hw until you understand how things
work.

> The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant
> that keeps my existing partitions.

Lie.
now, if you said, "I didn't see ...", then you might have our sympathy,
but your absolute and incorrect statement makes you a fool or a trouble
maker.

> Therefore I immediately
> stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was
> overwritten.

Any implication that this is an inevitable outcome is false.

> The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups.
> But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe
> operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu.

Bullshit.  Lots of people (including me) multi-boot OpenBSD.  Some of
them have problems, but they acknowledge their participation in the
problem and provide the details needed to get help rather than making
foolish and false claims.

Now, OpenBSD -- like most Operating Systems other than Linux -- does
make the assumption that it is the only OS that will be installed on the
computer (i.e., you got a job to do and this machine is going to do it).
 The assumption is completely overrideable, but if you blindly hit enter
and assume the installer will read your mind and do what you want, you
will be surprised.  Welcome to the non-Linux world.

Nick.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

Bertram Scharpf
On Wednesday, 24. Aug 2016, 08:24:34 -0400, Nick Holland wrote:
> On 08/24/16 07:15, Bertram Scharpf wrote:
> > first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a
> > heck of partitioning in my life.
>
> claim.  And re-installing windows twenty times counts as one OS.
> Installing Linux five times counts as another.

The last time I installed a Windows (if we call it an OS)
was about 1999. I had no Linux for about 7 years until
graphics weren't supported by BSD on my notebook for a
while.

> > But yet it was too late. The partition table was
> > overwritten.

The bug is not a concrete misbehaviour but the trap it is
setting up.

Bertram


--
Bertram Scharpf
Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany
http://www.bertram-scharpf.de

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

ludovic coues
You are either trolling or telling us there is a usability bug.
So please, tell us what you have done step by step, so we can see if
there is anything that could be done in a better way.

2016-08-24 15:16 GMT+02:00 Bertram Scharpf <[hidden email]>:

> On Wednesday, 24. Aug 2016, 08:24:34 -0400, Nick Holland wrote:
>> On 08/24/16 07:15, Bertram Scharpf wrote:
>> > first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a
>> > heck of partitioning in my life.
>>
>> claim.  And re-installing windows twenty times counts as one OS.
>> Installing Linux five times counts as another.
>
> The last time I installed a Windows (if we call it an OS)
> was about 1999. I had no Linux for about 7 years until
> graphics weren't supported by BSD on my notebook for a
> while.
>
>> > But yet it was too late. The partition table was
>> > overwritten.
>
> The bug is not a concrete misbehaviour but the trap it is
> setting up.
>
> Bertram
>
>
> --
> Bertram Scharpf
> Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany
> http://www.bertram-scharpf.de
>



--

Cordialement, Coues Ludovic
+336 148 743 42

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen
In reply to this post by Bertram Scharpf
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 03:16:21PM +0200, Bertram Scharpf wrote:
> > > But yet it was too late. The partition table was
> > > overwritten.
>
> The bug is not a concrete misbehaviour but the trap it is
> setting up.

This is beginning to sound ever more like lack of preparation for the
task at hand. The FAQ entry somebody else posted earlier contains enough
hints, had you read it, that you would have known that some preparation
was necessary.

But then you don't actually tell us what you did in any detail, only that
whatever it was you attempted to do failed.

If you expect any kind of help beyond what's already in the FAQ, you need
to do better. As in, tell us exactly what you did, with all details and in
the proper (actual) sequence. Otherwise you're just generating noise.

And quite frankly, beyond some very limited and short-lived use cases, I don't
see much point in multibooting at all, given the amount of work (developer
resources) it tends to consume. Other OS projects possibly have other priorities
and the resources to pour into making multibooting easier for the uninitiated,
for OpenBSD it's pretty clear that multibooting is a special case that's not
considered terribly useful to the majority of its users.

OpenBSD runs surprisingly well on even dated hardware and under several of
the common virtualization thingies that are available given recent-ish hardware.

If what you want is to try out OpenBSD in some limited setting, I'd strongly
recommend either getting some hardware you don't care about too much or spin up
a VM in a virtualization setup you're comfortable with.

--
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

Boris Goldberg-2
In reply to this post by Kamil Cholewiński
Hello Kamil,

  Your reply is unreasonably aggressive. Is there something wrong with the
OpenBSD in that particular area?
  I use to install the OBSD to an unused partition - pretty strait forward
process. Did something change recently? I've checked the FAQ - didn't find
big changes nor warnings (except the "know what you are doing").

  BTW, I use to run OBSD in VMWare for testing and bug finding - the work
was done, but didn't like the experience (a lot).


Wednesday, August 24, 2016, 6:41:58 AM, you wrote:

KC> On Wed, 24 Aug 2016, Bertram Scharpf <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Hi,
>>
>> first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a
>> heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk
>> space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD.
>>
>> The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant
>> that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately
>> stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was
>> overwritten.
>>
>> The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups.
>> But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe
>> operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu.
>>
>> Bertram
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bertram Scharpf
>> Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany
>> http://www.bertram-scharpf.de

KC> - You have unused disk space. Rather than spinning up a VM to play in,
KC>   you've instead opted for letting a new OS, that you have no experience
KC>   with, access and modify the raw disk bits.

KC> - You've tried installing the aforementioned new and unknown OS, on a
KC>   disk that had other important data, that was already governed by
KC>   another OS.

KC> To me, that doesn't sound like what an experienced user would do.

KC> <3,K.

--
Best regards,
 Boris                            mailto:[hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

Daniel Ouellet
In reply to this post by Bertram Scharpf
On 8/24/16 7:15 AM, Bertram Scharpf wrote:
> Hi,

Hi,

I don't write much on misc@ anymore because of emails like yours. But
this time I fell I had too. I am not a OpenBSD dev, but I fell your
insults as well I am sure.

> first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a
> heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk
> space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD.

Big statement. But questionable validity I guess...

> The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant
> that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately
> stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was
> overwritten.

If you stop right away the disk wouldn't have been damage at all. So you
didn't! fact. I suppose for you to say above "experienced OS installer"
mean as long as someone or something is holding your hand...

> The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups.
> But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe
> operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu.

Now if you read the FAQ or read the display on the screen, none of this
would have happened. How do I know that. Well just a little story, my
son did install OpenBSD many times in his life. To many to count and I
never made it easy for him either.

Always told him to RTFM first (believe me, he return this to me now
every chance he has and I love him for it too!) and then if he has
questions, to asked. He is on this list time to time when not busy with
school, and he sure can confirmed this.

Now why do I say that. Well his first "***experienced OS installer***"
install was on his own build custom computer at age 6. Windows 95 at the
time as he wanted to program his RCX back then for who knows about Lego!

And his first OpenBSD installation was not to far after that. I used to
asked him to install OpenBSD for me on load of Sun's servers and he do
them happily, check the memory, add some, replace drives with new one,
sometime 15 to 20 servers per night! The funny part about this is I have
a few engineers working for me at the time and sadly I trusted my son
more to do the proper install then they would have at the time!

See most of them are "experienced OS installer" too! But don't know shit
about hardware...

His first multi boot installation was around the time he was 10 or so I
think. Been so many years now I can't recall the details and it doesn't
makes me any younger either! By the way his first multiboot was on his
mac 1,1 at the time back then. May be he tried it on Windows I may have
had around possibly but don't think so. However the first usable one was
definitely on his mac that he used for school then and that wasn't the
easiest one to do it on either!

And he did multiple times before one day he did one mistake that I
helped correct for him with the Golden help of Nick on this list.
Believe me when I say he tried himself and only came to me at the last
resource, he felt bad having made that mistake! So, what a Dad got to
do, well help, we are there for that after all aren't we...

See here history telling the truth, that was 2009!

https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=124122973208531&w=2

But that was after he succeeded multiple times without me telling him
shit! So, what does that make him or you for that matter?

Who's the "experienced OS installer"?

So, I think you made a very big statement in your opening and you may
have made a big fool of yourself as if your statement is true, then you
shouldn't give up at the first trial! It only makes you looks like
vaporware in statement, or proving you really need handing at every
step, not creating your statement of "experienced OS installer", or if
you want to live to your own words, then try again and do it right!

There is nothing wrong making mistakes, we all do and I sure do my fair
share of them too. But telling others that "This blowfish is not a safe
operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu." is way out of
reason!!!!

Or may be I should refer you to help provided by a 13 years old at the
time for multi boot installed here:

http://marc.info/?t=126945770200002&r=1&w=4

And that was on his mac 5,5 however he had it running way before that on
his very old mac 1,1 model.

If your really interested I am sure you can find it in the archive.

So, live up to your own words or eat them!

Peace,

Daniel

PS: Statement like your remind me why I don't write as much as I used to
on this list...

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

Eric Furman-3
In reply to this post by Bertram Scharpf
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016, at 09:16 AM, Bertram Scharpf wrote:

> On Wednesday, 24. Aug 2016, 08:24:34 -0400, Nick Holland wrote:
> > On 08/24/16 07:15, Bertram Scharpf wrote:
> > > first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a
> > > heck of partitioning in my life.
> >
> > claim.  And re-installing windows twenty times counts as one OS.
> > Installing Linux five times counts as another.
>
> The last time I installed a Windows (if we call it an OS)
> was about 1999. I had no Linux for about 7 years until
> graphics weren't supported by BSD on my notebook for a
> while.
>
> > > But yet it was too late. The partition table was
> > > overwritten.
>
> The bug is not a concrete misbehaviour but the trap it is
> setting up.

Troll

Ich denke dass du vielleicht ein Hundepimmel bist.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

Bertram Scharpf
In reply to this post by ludovic coues
On Wednesday, 24. Aug 2016, 15:29:45 +0200, ludovic coues wrote:
> So please, tell us what you have done step by step, so we can see if
> there is anything that could be done in a better way.

The installer didn't offer me a copy-paste, tee, screenshot
or log facility. This makes it very difficult for me to
retrace what I have done or what I will have done.

But that doesn't matter any more.

> You are either trolling or telling us there is a usability bug.

This installer nuked away my whole notebook. Who wouldn't
get anrgy about that. If it is trolling to complain about
that, then after all I am a troll. If it is _not_ trolling
to write "lie", "bullshit" and to call me a "Hundepimmel"
(dogs willie), then I hope that I'm a troll.

It would be nice if you business partners would read what
you are dropping here.

Calling me a troll and then using the word "Hundepimmel" in
the same mail: Does this guy Eric Furman read what he
writes? This is an obvious Dunning-Kruger. Being given
offence by a community that doesn't throw out such a
low-minded person is not really hurting me. Poor, poor
people. I should feel sorry for you but you would have no
use for that.

Please leave the installer as it is so that everbody will be
warned early enough.

Bertram


--
Bertram Scharpf
Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany
http://www.bertram-scharpf.de

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

Chris Cappuccio
Bertram Scharpf [[hidden email]] wrote:
> Calling me a troll and then using the word "Hundepimmel" in
> the same mail: Does this guy Eric Furman read what he
> writes? This is an obvious Dunning-Kruger. Being given
> offence by a community that doesn't throw out such a
> low-minded person is not really hurting me.
>

If you look at the archives, you'll see that people tried.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

ludovic coues
In reply to this post by Bertram Scharpf
On 24 Aug 2016 10:02 p.m., "Bertram Scharpf" <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> This installer nuked away my whole notebook. Who wouldn't
> get anrgy about that. If it is trolling to complain about
> that, then after all I am a troll. If it is _not_ trolling
> to write "lie", "bullshit" and to call me a "Hundepimmel"
> (dogs willie), then I hope that I'm a troll.

Being a troll is not about being rude but making people lose their time.
You came here with grand claim that the installer failed on you and
basically have gone "fuck you, this thing make me dust up my back up, I'm
not helping you". A bug report without the most basic info to help resolve
the bug is a trolling attempt.

You had a notebook with a blank hard drive. You could have installed a
random Linux in 5 minutes then redone the openbsd installer step by step
until you find which step overwrote the partition.

Instead, you decided to go on the project mail list and told the dev their
work is really really bad. And you are offended they took it as an insult.

>
> But that doesn't matter any more.
>

Obviously it does matter, else you wouldn't be here.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

Stuart Henderson
In reply to this post by Bertram Scharpf
On 2016-08-24, Bertram Scharpf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant
> that keeps my existing partitions.

If you wanted to try it again, when it asks "Use (W)hole disk or
(E)dit the MBR?", choose E.

It doesn't exactly hold your hand every step of the way, but
what could be clearer than "Use whole disk"?

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

temp+101
In reply to this post by Bertram Scharpf
Stuart Henderson wrotes:

>On 2016-08-24, Bertram Scharpf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant
>> that keeps my existing partitions.
>
>If you wanted to try it again, when it asks "Use (W)hole disk or
>(E)dit the MBR?", choose E.
>
>It doesn't exactly hold your hand every step of the way, but
>what could be clearer than "Use whole disk"?
>

The installer has 2 different steps to partitioning your disk.
At first ("Use (W)hole disk MBR, whole disk (G)PT or (E)dit?") it uses
fdisk(8) and after this step it will overwrites your partition table.

The next step ("Use (A)uto layout, (E)dit auto layout, or create (C)ustom
layout?") could not recover you partition table from previous step even by
pressing Ctrl+C.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

Jay Patel-7
In reply to this post by Bertram Scharpf
i won't trust you to feed my dog,if i had one. and i am expert in finding
good dog caretaker.

On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Bertram Scharpf <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a
> heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk
> space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD.
>
> The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant
> that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately
> stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was
> overwritten.
>
> The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups.
> But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe
> operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu.
>
> Bertram
>
>
> --
> Bertram Scharpf
> Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany
> http://www.bertram-scharpf.de

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

phessler
No personal insults, please.


--
San Francisco isn't what it used to be, and it never was.
                -- Herb Caen

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

ludovic coues
In reply to this post by Bertram Scharpf
2016-08-26 19:22 GMT+02:00 Ali Farzanrad <[hidden email]>:

> Stuart Henderson wrotes:
>
>>On 2016-08-24, Bertram Scharpf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant
>>> that keeps my existing partitions.
>>
>>If you wanted to try it again, when it asks "Use (W)hole disk or
>>(E)dit the MBR?", choose E.
>>
>>It doesn't exactly hold your hand every step of the way, but
>>what could be clearer than "Use whole disk"?
>>
>
> The installer has 2 different steps to partitioning your disk.
> At first ("Use (W)hole disk MBR, whole disk (G)PT or (E)dit?") it uses
> fdisk(8) and after this step it will overwrites your partition table.
>
> The next step ("Use (A)uto layout, (E)dit auto layout, or create (C)ustom
> layout?") could not recover you partition table from previous step even by
> pressing Ctrl+C.
>

I'm pretty sure that the OpenBSD layout have *nothing* to do with what
is written in the MBR  or GPT.
That's why the partition table is lost when the installer is asking
about the layout. You told him to use the whole disk.

--

Cordialement, Coues Ludovic
+336 148 743 42

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Installer overwrites partition table

Pedro Tender-2
In reply to this post by Bertram Scharpf
"In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess."
- PEP 20

"Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups!"
- Steven Seagal

You've assumed many things and you've made a mistake.

Don't blame other people's work for it.
Don't test on production/daily use machines.
Test before deploy.

On Aug 24, 2016 12:36, "Bertram Scharpf" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> first of all, I am an experienced OS installer and I did a
> heck of partitioning in my life. Now I had some unused disk
> space and I found it a good idea to install OpenBSD.
>
> The installers partitioning tool didn't offer me a variant
> that keeps my existing partitions. Therefore I immediately
> stopped it. But yet it was too late. The partition table was
> overwritten.
>
> The damage is not hard for me because I tersely do backups.
> But this behaviour is impudent. This blowfish is not a safe
> operating system, it rather is a poorly prepared fugu.
>
> Bertram
>
>
> --
> Bertram Scharpf
> Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany
> http://www.bertram-scharpf.de

12