Groklaw artical about the BSD license

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Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Jean-Daniel Beaubien-2
Groklaw has an article about some misconceptions of the BSD license

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070114093427179

I am curious what people on this list (with the proper knowledge)
think about the correctnessof the article.

Jd

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Adriaan Misc
On 1/16/07, Jean-Daniel Beaubien <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Groklaw has an article about some misconceptions of the BSD license
>
> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070114093427179
>
> I am curious what people on this list (with the proper knowledge)
> think about the correctnessof the article.

I think most people will disagree with the article and agree with this
slashdot post http://bsd.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=216988&cid=17617988

Adriaan

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Travers Buda-2
In reply to this post by Jean-Daniel Beaubien-2
On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:21:52 -0500
"Jean-Daniel Beaubien" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Groklaw has an article about some misconceptions of the BSD license
>
> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070114093427179
>
> I am curious what people on this list (with the proper knowledge)
> think about the correctnessof the article.
>
> Jd
>

The Groklaw article is complete bullshit. The BSD (and ISC) licenses
are terse... I don't know how someone could misinterpret them... except
unless they wanted to just write yellow journalism, which is what
slashdot is all about!

See /usr/share/misc/license.template
You'll notice that the ONLY RESTRICTIONS amount to this:

*Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software for any
*purpose with or without fee is hereby granted, provided that the
*above copyright notice and this permission notice appear in all copies.

As long as you retain the copyright notice, you're acting in the spirit
of the license (give credit where it is due) and are not violating
copyright law. The only difference in the 3 clause BSD license is that
you can't use the name of organization XXX to promote your product.

The BSD and ISC licenses are VERY short, and do not contain confusing
or _ambigious_ terms like other licenses. Anyone who does not
understand them is a moron.

Keep it simple, stupid.

Travers Buda

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Greg Thomas-3
On 1/15/07, Travers Buda <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:21:52 -0500
> "Jean-Daniel Beaubien" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Groklaw has an article about some misconceptions of the BSD license
> >
> > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070114093427179
> >
> > I am curious what people on this list (with the proper knowledge)
> > think about the correctnessof the article.
> >
> > Jd
> >
>
> The Groklaw article is complete bullshit. The BSD (and ISC) licenses
> are terse... I don't know how someone could misinterpret them... except
> unless they wanted to just write yellow journalism, which is what
> slashdot is all about!
>

Yeah, the article comes up with the most absurd conclusions I've ever
seen.  Talk about your  bogus assumptions and leaps of logic.

Greg

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Marco Peereboom
In reply to this post by Jean-Daniel Beaubien-2
I think they might have drunk too much kangaroo milk if you know what I
mean.

The license has been tested in court and has been interpreted.

On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 11:21:52PM -0500, Jean-Daniel Beaubien wrote:
> Groklaw has an article about some misconceptions of the BSD license
>
> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070114093427179
>
> I am curious what people on this list (with the proper knowledge)
> think about the correctnessof the article.
>
> Jd

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Pau Amaro-Seoane-3
yes, the article is somehow misleading...

at this point I would like to ask another question here, in misc;
namely... how do you feel/ what do you think of big companies making
profit out of o'bsd or whatever bsd variant and not giving anything
back for that? Think of, for instance, the MacOSX case...
How would you feel like if o'bsd had another kind of license, "for
instance" a GPLv3 one?

just curious...

Cheers,

Pau

2007/1/16, Marco Peereboom <[hidden email]>:

> I think they might have drunk too much kangaroo milk if you know what I
> mean.
>
> The license has been tested in court and has been interpreted.
>
> On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 11:21:52PM -0500, Jean-Daniel Beaubien wrote:
> > Groklaw has an article about some misconceptions of the BSD license
> >
> > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070114093427179
> >
> > I am curious what people on this list (with the proper knowledge)
> > think about the correctnessof the article.
> >
> > Jd

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

dereck
groklaw is a joke.  Best to ignore them.  Were it not
for idiots at SCO the idiots at groklaw would've
remained the obscure fanbois they are.

Do you waste your time reading the effusions of fans
of Britney Spears?  How about Paris Hilton fans and
their insightful blogs?  Do you get your definition of
the meaning of life from those bright lights who blog
about the latest dating patterns of Justin Timberlake?

I didn't think so.  Just lump the RMS/Perens groupies
into the same lot and move along.  

If you want to argue licensing there are lots of
idiots on /. ready for your comments.  To everyone
else the BSD license says what it means, and means
what it says.  groklaw and the rest of the linux
fanbois can f*** themselves.  Or each other.

-- Vim Visual <[hidden email]> wrote:

> yes, the article is somehow misleading...
>
> at this point I would like to ask another question
> here, in misc;
> namely... how do you feel/ what do you think of big
> companies making
> profit out of o'bsd or whatever bsd variant and not
> giving anything
> back for that? Think of, for instance, the MacOSX
> case...
> How would you feel like if o'bsd had another kind of
> license, "for
> instance" a GPLv3 one?
>
> just curious...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Pau
>
> 2007/1/16, Marco Peereboom <[hidden email]>:
> > I think they might have drunk too much kangaroo
> milk if you know what I
> > mean.
> >
> > The license has been tested in court and has been
> interpreted.
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 11:21:52PM -0500,
> Jean-Daniel Beaubien wrote:
> > > Groklaw has an article about some misconceptions
> of the BSD license
> > >
> > >
>
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070114093427179
> > >
> > > I am curious what people on this list (with the
> proper knowledge)
> > > think about the correctnessof the article.
> > >
> > > Jd

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Jason Crawford
In reply to this post by Pau Amaro-Seoane-3
On 1/16/07, Vim Visual <[hidden email]> wrote:

> yes, the article is somehow misleading...
>
> at this point I would like to ask another question here, in misc;
> namely... how do you feel/ what do you think of big companies making
> profit out of o'bsd or whatever bsd variant and not giving anything
> back for that? Think of, for instance, the MacOSX case...
> How would you feel like if o'bsd had another kind of license, "for
> instance" a GPLv3 one?
>
> just curious...
>

License flame war program initiating....NOW

seriously, please read the archives, especially these two:

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-cvs&m=99118909527873&w=2
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-tech&m=110809672612810&w=2

Jason

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Pau Amaro-Seoane-3
thanks for the links...

loosen up, I was just asking... I am using openbsd and it's only that
I've been thinking for a while about these issues... Reading the
license doesn't help 100% in my case because English is not my mother
tongue and I guess some important things may be hidden to *me* in the
text?





2007/1/16, Jason Crawford <[hidden email]>:

> On 1/16/07, Vim Visual <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > yes, the article is somehow misleading...
> >
> > at this point I would like to ask another question here, in misc;
> > namely... how do you feel/ what do you think of big companies making
> > profit out of o'bsd or whatever bsd variant and not giving anything
> > back for that? Think of, for instance, the MacOSX case...
> > How would you feel like if o'bsd had another kind of license, "for
> > instance" a GPLv3 one?
> >
> > just curious...
> >
>
> License flame war program initiating....NOW
>
> seriously, please read the archives, especially these two:
>
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-cvs&m=99118909527873&w=2
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-tech&m=110809672612810&w=2
>
> Jason

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Eric Furman-3
In reply to this post by Pau Amaro-Seoane-3
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:12:27 +0100, "Vim Visual"
<[hidden email]> said:
> yes, the article is somehow misleading...

The article is complete garbage. mental masturbation.

>
> at this point I would like to ask another question here, in misc;
> namely... how do you feel/ what do you think of big companies making
> profit out of o'bsd or whatever bsd variant and not giving anything
> back for that? Think of, for instance, the MacOSX case...

It's free. They can do anything they want...

> How would you feel like if o'bsd had another kind of license, "for
> instance" a GPLv3 one?

Are you *trying* to start a flame war? ;-)

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Henning Brauer
In reply to this post by Pau Amaro-Seoane-3
* Vim Visual <[hidden email]> [2007-01-16 21:25]:
> how do you feel/ what do you think of big companies making
> profit out of o'bsd or whatever bsd variant and not giving anything
> back for that? Think of, for instance, the MacOSX case...

Better they use our code then trying to write their own.

Nontheless, they should give back, of course.

--
Henning Brauer, [hidden email], [hidden email]
BS Web Services, http://bsws.de
Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services
Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting - Hamburg & Amsterdam

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Greg Thomas-3
In reply to this post by Pau Amaro-Seoane-3
On 1/16/07, Vim Visual <[hidden email]> wrote:
> yes, the article is somehow misleading...
>
> at this point I would like to ask another question here, in misc;
> namely... how do you feel/ what do you think of big companies making
> profit out of o'bsd or whatever bsd variant and not giving anything
> back for that? Think of, for instance, the MacOSX case...
> How would you feel like if o'bsd had another kind of license, "for
> instance" a GPLv3 one?
>

The Internet is a much better place because of the BSD license and
similar licenses.  It's not a better place because of the GPL v1, v2
and it won't be because of v3-v99999999999.

Theo and the developers may get frustrated when they don't get
donations from people like Cisco, Redhat, Sun, Apple, and other users
of OpenSSH and OpenBSD code but that frustration doesn't outweigh the
benefits of good code being used on proprietary systems.

Greg

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Marco Peereboom
In reply to this post by Pau Amaro-Seoane-3
I'll bite

On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 09:12:27PM +0100, Vim Visual wrote:
> yes, the article is somehow misleading...
>
> at this point I would like to ask another question here, in misc;
> namely... how do you feel/ what do you think of big companies making
> profit out of o'bsd or whatever bsd variant and not giving anything
> back for that? Think of, for instance, the MacOSX case...

I think it is FANTASTIC.  Please use good OpenBSD code vs. the in house garbage
vendors develop.  I have several proverbial turds in my internet drink that I'd
like to get rid of.  OSX, Linux, Windows anyone?

If those idiots would use more BSD licensed code the internet would be a better
place.

> How would you feel like if o'bsd had another kind of license, "for
> instance" a GPLv3 one?

I'd gauge out my eyes and stop developing code for the Open Source community.

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Pau Amaro-Seoane-3
I am a newcomer to this community but I have the "feeling" that I have
put my finger on a... sensitive point

in any case thanks for the answers, and for the mild biting, Marco, I
think I have now an impression...

btw are you using X? and if so, which wm? most of them are under the
gpl, right? this must hurt if you're such a bsd license defender...

thanks again

Pau

2007/1/16, Marco Peereboom <[hidden email]>:

> I'll bite
>
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 09:12:27PM +0100, Vim Visual wrote:
> > yes, the article is somehow misleading...
> >
> > at this point I would like to ask another question here, in misc;
> > namely... how do you feel/ what do you think of big companies making
> > profit out of o'bsd or whatever bsd variant and not giving anything
> > back for that? Think of, for instance, the MacOSX case...
>
> I think it is FANTASTIC.  Please use good OpenBSD code vs. the in house garbage
> vendors develop.  I have several proverbial turds in my internet drink that I'd
> like to get rid of.  OSX, Linux, Windows anyone?
>
> If those idiots would use more BSD licensed code the internet would be a better
> place.
>
> > How would you feel like if o'bsd had another kind of license, "for
> > instance" a GPLv3 one?
>
> I'd gauge out my eyes and stop developing code for the Open Source community.

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Will Maier
On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 10:44:54PM +0100, Vim Visual wrote:
> btw are you using X? and if so, which wm? most of them are under
> the gpl, right? this must hurt if you're such a bsd license
> defender...

Stop baiting the list.

Also, not that it's related to anything, but there are a number of
BSD-licensed WMs, several of which can be found in the ports tree.

--

o--------------------------{ Will Maier }--------------------------o
| web:.......http://www.lfod.us/ | [hidden email] |
*------------------[ BSD Unix: Live Free or Die ]------------------*

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Shane J Pearson
In reply to this post by Pau Amaro-Seoane-3
Vim,

On 17/01/2007, at 7:57 AM, Vim Visual wrote:

> loosen up, I was just asking...

You asked in a BSD mailing list, what people would think about having  
OpenBSD licensed under the GPL3.

What were you expecting? Hugs?


Shane J Pearson
shanejp netspace net au

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Marco Peereboom
In reply to this post by Pau Amaro-Seoane-3
I'll even bite again Mr. Vim Visual.

On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 10:44:54PM +0100, Vim Visual wrote:
> I am a newcomer to this community but I have the "feeling" that I have
> put my finger on a... sensitive point

Sharp observation!  Maybe it has something to do with the BSD part of
OpenBSD.

>
> in any case thanks for the answers, and for the mild biting, Marco, I
> think I have now an impression...
>
> btw are you using X? and if so, which wm? most of them are under the
> gpl, right? this must hurt if you're such a bsd license defender...

I use ion which is GPL.  I also use gcc which is GPL.  So?
I encourage everyone to develop GPL.  However do not expect me to play
along.  The GPL is fatally flawed and hasn't been tested in court.  I
wouldn't bet my code or company on it.

Despite popular believe I don't think that the GPL has furthered the
cause of the open source community by one bit.  I would go as far as
saying that it hasn't.  The only thing it has done is create a wildly
unenforcible license goo in the community that will eventually cause
severe problems whenever GPL hits the courts for a *real* case.

I don't like giving something away and then later asking for it back.
Do you do the same when you donate to a cause?  Altruism is a bad
economic driver and the GPL is a prime example.  Favor economies don't
work; think about the great human communistic experiment.

What's next?  The GTL (Guilt Trip License)?

Before you ask, I make a bad hippie but do enjoy writing code and giving
it away.

>
> thanks again

You are welcome.

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Lars Hansson
In reply to this post by Pau Amaro-Seoane-3
On Wednesday 17 January 2007 05:44, Vim Visual wrote:
> btw are you using X?

X isn't GPL.

> and if so, which wm?

Irrelevant.

> most of them are under the  
> gpl, right?

No, some are.

> this must hurt if you're such a bsd license defender...

Keep your flamebait off the list.

---
Lars Hansson

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Marc Balmer-2
In reply to this post by Marco Peereboom
Marco Peereboom wrote:

> along.  The GPL is fatally flawed and hasn't been tested in court.  I
> wouldn't bet my code or company on it.

the GPL actually has been tested in court in germany.
I lack the details, but using google they surely show up.

- mb

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Re: Groklaw artical about the BSD license

Jeffrey Ollie
On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 08:28 +0100, Marc Balmer wrote:
> Marco Peereboom wrote:
>
> > along.  The GPL is fatally flawed and hasn't been tested in court.  I
> > wouldn't bet my code or company on it.
>
> the GPL actually has been tested in court in germany.
> I lack the details, but using google they surely show up.

http://www.google.com/search?q=gpl+court+test

Jeff

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