Fund raising

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Fund raising

Worik Stanton
I got a lot of shit on this list for suggesting that the OpenBSD project
sell documentation collections (that are freely available elsewhere) as
a method of raising funds for the project as CD rom sales dry up.

A lot of shit on list and especially off list (one clown made up a gmail
address especially to tell me to fuck off.  Way too much time some
people have)

Today I spent $US5 on an ebook containing tutorials for software  I am
considering using.  By exercising my mouse I could have got it for free.

I did not.

So I am bringing this up again.  I do not want CDROMs.  I have been to
the trouble of paying for one and insisting they do not post it, but it
was a lot of bother.

I would pay for a collection of release notes for each new release.

I support this project and I would like to support Theo directly - as CD
sales do.

So once again (at the risk of infuriating idle clowns) I respectfully
suggest that the project consider such a release beside and as well as
CDROMs.

I do realise that I am proposing a "good idea for some one else to do".
 I cannot lead such a task as I am a OpenBSD newbie.

W

PS For those who might care I bought "Backbone Tutorials" by Thomas
Davis.  https://leanpub.com/backbonetutorials

--
Why is the legal status of chardonnay different to that of cannabis?
       [hidden email] 021-1680650, (03) 4821804
                          Aotearoa (New Zealand)
                             I voted for love

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Re: Fund raising

Eric Furman-3
I'm not going to give you any shit. I think you are well intentioned.
However the number of people who would pay for such a thing is
so small that it is not worth the time and effort to create it.
One of the worst side effects of Linux and the FSF is that now
their are millions of pricks who think *EVERYTHING* should
be free. This attitude screws projects like OpenBSD.
What is so much "trouble and bother" about buying a CD?
I have bought CD releases. Most of them, in fact.
Not once was it any "trouble" or "bother".
If you don't want the CD just give it away.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015, at 01:40 AM, worik wrote:

> I got a lot of shit on this list for suggesting that the OpenBSD project
> sell documentation collections (that are freely available elsewhere) as
> a method of raising funds for the project as CD rom sales dry up.
>
> A lot of shit on list and especially off list (one clown made up a gmail
> address especially to tell me to fuck off.  Way too much time some
> people have)
>
> Today I spent $US5 on an ebook containing tutorials for software  I am
> considering using.  By exercising my mouse I could have got it for free.
>
> I did not.
>
> So I am bringing this up again.  I do not want CDROMs.  I have been to
> the trouble of paying for one and insisting they do not post it, but it
> was a lot of bother.
>
> I would pay for a collection of release notes for each new release.
>
> I support this project and I would like to support Theo directly - as CD
> sales do.
>
> So once again (at the risk of infuriating idle clowns) I respectfully
> suggest that the project consider such a release beside and as well as
> CDROMs.
>
> I do realise that I am proposing a "good idea for some one else to do".
>  I cannot lead such a task as I am a OpenBSD newbie.
>
> W
>
> PS For those who might care I bought "Backbone Tutorials" by Thomas
> Davis.  https://leanpub.com/backbonetutorials
>
> --
> Why is the legal status of chardonnay different to that of cannabis?
>        [hidden email] 021-1680650, (03) 4821804
>                           Aotearoa (New Zealand)
>                              I voted for love

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Re: Fund raising

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Worik Stanton
>I got a lot of shit on this list for suggesting that the OpenBSD project
>sell documentation collections (that are freely available elsewhere) as
>a method of raising funds for the project as CD rom sales dry up.
>
>A lot of shit on list and especially off list (one clown made up a gmail
>address especially to tell me to fuck off.  Way too much time some
>people have)
>
>Today I spent $US5 on an ebook containing tutorials for software  I am
>considering using.  By exercising my mouse I could have got it for free.
>
>I did not.
>
>So I am bringing this up again.  I do not want CDROMs.  I have been to
>the trouble of paying for one and insisting they do not post it, but it
>was a lot of bother.
>
>I would pay for a collection of release notes for each new release.
>
>I support this project and I would like to support Theo directly - as CD
>sales do.
>
>So once again (at the risk of infuriating idle clowns) I respectfully
>suggest that the project consider such a release beside and as well as
>CDROMs.
>
>I do realise that I am proposing a "good idea for some one else to do".
> I cannot lead such a task as I am a OpenBSD newbie.
>
>W
>
>PS For those who might care I bought "Backbone Tutorials" by Thomas
>Davis.  https://leanpub.com/backbonetutorials

The release CDs contain documentation in a file called X.Y/*/manXY.tgz,
where X.X and XX are the release numbers.

So you can already buy the documentation, in a way which has been a
historical success for OpenBSD. (As opposed to your idea, which has no
track record anywhere).

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Re: Fund raising

Nick Holland
In reply to this post by Worik Stanton
On 03/26/15 01:40, worik wrote:
...

> Today I spent $US5 on an ebook containing tutorials for software  I am
> considering using.  By exercising my mouse I could have got it for free.
>
> I did not.
>
> So I am bringing this up again.  I do not want CDROMs.  I have been to
> the trouble of paying for one and insisting they do not post it, but it
> was a lot of bother.
>
> I would pay for a collection of release notes for each new release.
>
> I support this project and I would like to support Theo directly - as CD
> sales do.
>
> So once again (at the risk of infuriating idle clowns) I respectfully
> suggest that the project consider such a release beside and as well as
> CDROMs.
...

There's a major problem in the world...most people don't understand very
basic economics of running a business.

You are looking at it as $5 for something that costs nothing to
distribute -- so infinite profit margin ($5/$0), how can you go wrong?

Well...  composing such a document takes time.  Let's use the FAQ as an
example.  Well, it's rather short for a book, and realistically, if you
were to be expected to pay MONEY for it, it would have to be pretty
substantially reworked for better quality, better organization.  But
let's pretend that people would spend $5 for a neatened up version of
the FAQ in ebook format.

So, I quit my day job, and spend a month or so rewriting things.  No
major new content, just reorganizing and reworking what is there.
Understand that I love the OpenBSD project, a LOT of my income goes into
OpenBSD related expenses, and I'm glad and honored to do that, but I
really can't just quit getting income for a month without a huge hit to
the bank account.  So I'm going to need some pay.  It doesn't need to
meet my current job's income, but it would be nice if it were close AND
covers lots of taxes and costs that my employer pays.  Not only
that...when I'm done, I'll need to go get another job, as I suspect my
employer will fill my current position, so I'll have to find a job
elsewhere.  So, better add another month of pay to my costs.

Now, divide that cost by $5...can we sell that many copies of something
that can be got for free?  I doubt it.  And that's just to BREAK EVEN,
as if NOTHING ever happened.  To actually make it worth while, we would
have to sell many times that number of copies.

Oh, but wait! not done yet.  Now, we need a way to process $5 payments
fast and efficient enough so that the majority of the $5 actually goes
to the project, not to the time spent processing things.  And when
something goes wrong, customers will expect that someone answer the
phone or at least e-mail in a timely manner.

And every release, we need to do it all over again.

Realistically, the money that we get for this e-document is really just
an act of charity anyway.  Why not just give the project the money, and
not make us jump through hoops that cost lots of money and provide no
benefit to anyone?

Besides, the artwork and stickers in the CD sets are great.  Really.
I've been buying CDs since 2.6, and I look forward to getting every
single one.  And this is from someone who works with the project and
pays the same price everyone else does (and historically, usually got it
AFTER many of you guys are bragging about getting yours).

Nick.

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Re: Fund raising

jungle Boogie
On 26 March 2015 at 05:20, Nick Holland <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Realistically, the money that we get for this e-document is really just
> an act of charity anyway.  Why not just give the project the money, and
> not make us jump through hoops that cost lots of money and provide no
> benefit to anyone?
>

Yes, donate on release day. I plan to do that in May and then in
November. I'll probably donate again for the use of openntpd, openssh,
libressl and all the other small wonderful projects everyone forgets
about.

> Besides, the artwork and stickers in the CD sets are great.  Really.
> I've been buying CDs since 2.6, and I look forward to getting every
> single one.  And this is from someone who works with the project and
> pays the same price everyone else does (and historically, usually got it
> AFTER many of you guys are bragging about getting yours).

The artwork and songs are great! I've annoyed my family by playing
almost all the songs on more than one occasion. I can't say I'll buy
the CD set but I ordered the 5.7 poster the moment I found out it was
available. I'll get the 5.7, if it's made.

I'm actually wearing an openbsd shirt now with an openssh poster
behind me on the wall.

What's the URL to the legacy store? I want to see what remains in
their inventory.

--
-------
inum: 883510009027723
sip: [hidden email]
xmpp: [hidden email]

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Re: Fund raising

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Worik Stanton
>I'm actually wearing an openbsd shirt now with an openssh poster
>behind me on the wall.
>
>What's the URL to the legacy store? I want to see what remains in
>their inventory.

Note:

Recent difficulties have resulted in zero (Z E R O) of the proceeds
from Austin's shop going towards OpenBSD.  And it may have been
happening for a while before that.

(history repeats itself)

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Re: Fund raising

Jason Hunt
In reply to this post by Worik Stanton
> Recent difficulties have resulted in zero (Z E R O) of the proceeds
> from Austin's shop going towards OpenBSD. And it may have been
> happening for a while before that.

This might explain why they ignored my repeated requests for a receipt back when I bought the 5.5 discs. They eventually sent one,  shortly after the new store was announced. ‎

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Re: Fund raising

sven falempin
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 2:25 AM, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> >I'm actually wearing an openbsd shirt now with an openssh poster
> >behind me on the wall.
> >
> >What's the URL to the legacy store? I want to see what remains in
> >their inventory.
>
> Note:
>
> Recent difficulties have resulted in zero (Z E R O) of the proceeds
> from Austin's shop going towards OpenBSD.  And it may have been
> happening for a while before that.
>
> (history repeats itself)
>
>
But the new shop is alright ?

--
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() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
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Re: Fund raising

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Worik Stanton
>On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 2:25 AM, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]>
>wrote:
>
>> >I'm actually wearing an openbsd shirt now with an openssh poster
>> >behind me on the wall.
>> >
>> >What's the URL to the legacy store? I want to see what remains in
>> >their inventory.
>>
>> Note:
>>
>> Recent difficulties have resulted in zero (Z E R O) of the proceeds
>> from Austin's shop going towards OpenBSD.  And it may have been
>> happening for a while before that.
>>
>> (history repeats itself)
>>
>>
>But the new shop is alright ?

Yes, the new shop is fine.  Transparency, accountability, honourable
behaviour, etc.  Excellent relationship.  Few bumps at adapting their
ordering system to the people ordering from all over the world, but
we'll get there step by step I hope.

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Re: Fund raising

Dave Anderson-4
On Fri, 27 Mar 2015, Theo de Raadt wrote:

>>On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 2:25 AM, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>> >I'm actually wearing an openbsd shirt now with an openssh poster
>>> >behind me on the wall.
>>> >
>>> >What's the URL to the legacy store? I want to see what remains in
>>> >their inventory.
>>>
>>> Note:
>>>
>>> Recent difficulties have resulted in zero (Z E R O) of the proceeds
>>> from Austin's shop going towards OpenBSD.  And it may have been
>>> happening for a while before that.
>>>
>>> (history repeats itself)
>>>
>>>
>>But the new shop is alright ?
>
>Yes, the new shop is fine.  Transparency, accountability, honourable
>behaviour, etc.  Excellent relationship.  Few bumps at adapting their
>ordering system to the people ordering from all over the world, but
>we'll get there step by step I hope.

I hit a couple of those bumps on my first order from them, and they were
_very_ good about analyzing and fixing them.

        Dave

--
Dave Anderson
<[hidden email]>

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Re: Fund raising

Todd Zimmermann
On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Dave Anderson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, 27 Mar 2015, Theo de Raadt wrote:
>
>>>On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 2:25 AM, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> >I'm actually wearing an openbsd shirt now with an openssh poster
>>>> >behind me on the wall.
>>>> >
>>>> >What's the URL to the legacy store? I want to see what remains in
>>>> >their inventory.
>>>>
>>>> Note:
>>>>
>>>> Recent difficulties have resulted in zero (Z E R O) of the proceeds
>>>> from Austin's shop going towards OpenBSD.  And it may have been
>>>> happening for a while before that.
>>>>
>>>> (history repeats itself)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>But the new shop is alright ?
>>
>>Yes, the new shop is fine.  Transparency, accountability, honourable
>>behaviour, etc.  Excellent relationship.  Few bumps at adapting their
>>ordering system to the people ordering from all over the world, but
>>we'll get there step by step I hope.
>
> I hit a couple of those bumps on my first order from them, and they were
> _very_ good about analyzing and fixing them.
>
>         Dave
>
> --
> Dave Anderson
> <[hidden email]>
>

I placed a pre-order for the 5.7 CD set and poster this afternoon with
the new store without problem. Spotted the Blues Brothers theme and
couldn't resist ;) For my Visa debit card had to enter type as 'Visa'
as it wouldn't go through with type as 'Visa Debit'. No big deal, run
into that occasionally on other sites.

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Re: Fund raising

Carson Chittom-3
In reply to this post by Worik Stanton
worik <[hidden email]> writes:

> I got a lot of shit on this list for suggesting that the OpenBSD project
> sell documentation collections (that are freely available elsewhere) as
> a method of raising funds for the project as CD rom sales dry up.

I like printed documentation myself--I find it easier to read.  You can
easily generate Postscript from man pages.  See
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq2.html#ManPages and scroll down to "How
can I get a PostScript copy of a man page that's print-ready?"), in case
you weren't aware.