Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

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Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Man Hobby
Hi,

What is the opinion of employers about OpenBSD?

There is reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job?

If not, why?

If there is not reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job, why use
OpenBSD?
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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Jay Hart-2
Do you have a car?

Do you drive for a living?

If not, then why have car???

J

> Hi,
>
> What is the opinion of employers about OpenBSD?
>
> There is reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job?
>
> If not, why?
>
> If there is not reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job, why use
> OpenBSD?
>


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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Christopher Turkel
In reply to this post by Man Hobby
I use OpenBSD as my desktop though since I develop Motif at work it hasn't
hurt my job skills.

On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 10:10 PM Man Hobby <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> What is the opinion of employers about OpenBSD?
>
> There is reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job?
>
> If not, why?
>
> If there is not reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job, why use
> OpenBSD?
>
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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Daniel Jakots-3
In reply to this post by Man Hobby
On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 23:05:09 -0300, Man Hobby <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> What is the opinion of employers about OpenBSD?

Best Operating System.

> There is reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job?
>
> If not, why?

Learning OpenBSD will make you learn many many many things about Unix
systems.

> If there is not reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job, why use
> OpenBSD?

Just a side note, it's funny you're so much focused on 'job' while you
have 'hobby' in your name.

HTH,
Daniel

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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Ax0n
In reply to this post by Man Hobby
On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 9:05 PM, Man Hobby <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> What is the opinion of employers about OpenBSD?
>

As a hiring manager, I see OpenBSD experience on a resume as a sign that
one likely has a firm grasp of UNIX. Several of my employers have used it
for mission critical work such as application cluster servers, firewalls,
load balancers, mail servers and front-end web servers. At one point, I had
well over 200 OpenBSD systems (several racks full of 1U servers) under my
care.


> There is reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job?
>

No.


> If not, why?
>

Initially, in 1998 I just wanted a stable UNIX-like operating system for my
laptop which had been flaky under Linux and FreeBSD. OpenBSD delivered
that, and more. I bounced around to other BSDs and Linux distros on my
laptops and desktops between 2000 and 2010, but I came home to OpenBSD in
2010 and haven't looked back.

If there is not reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job, why use
> OpenBSD?
>

Simply put, it's the OS I'm most comfortable with using on a daily basis.
My day job has my team using Windows, Amazon Linux, RHEL and OS X. I come
home and I sigh in relief at the simplicity, excellent documentation, and
stability of the software that this community has built.
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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Jordan Geoghegan
In reply to this post by Man Hobby
I have managed to make a decent living for myself as a consultant who
works primarily on OpenBSD. When I am hiring/evaluating applicants,
having OpenBSD experience on their resume shows me that they don't fuck
around and indicates that they are passionate about Unix and have a
personal drive to better themselves and acquire knowledge. Folks who are
familiar and comfortable with OpenBSD tend to be the types who are able
to seek and acquire knowledge quickly and effectively while at the same
time being able to think critically and objectively.

In situations/jobs that don't explicitly _require_ OpenBSD, I often find
a way to make OpenBSD a part of the job, as most people hiring a
consultant don't actually know what they need-- that's why they hire
me!. If you are "learning" OpenBSD with the sole goal of getting a cushy
job, you're gonna have a bad time. If you are learning OpenBSD for the
sake of learning OpenBSD, and because you are passionate and want to
understanding how a sane, logical operating system is put together, then
you will be giving yourself a gift that will keep on giving.

The moral of the story is, the Dunning-Kreuger effect is extremely
prevalent in the IT world, and most of these wannabe tough guy
"enterprise" fags don't even know, what they don't know. The IT world is
full of dipshits who don't understand what's important. Most every
OpenBSD aficionado I have met has been humble and compassionate, as for
the most part, they realize that they know just enough to know that they
know nothing.

-- Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,

Jordan


On 07/13/18 19:05, Man Hobby wrote:

> Hi,
>
> What is the opinion of employers about OpenBSD?
>
> There is reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job?
>
> If not, why?
>
> If there is not reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job, why use
> OpenBSD?

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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Peter J. Philipp-3
In reply to this post by Man Hobby
I was extremely lucky 2 jobs ago to have an employer who requires only
that I be able to SSH, and be able to work remotely across continents. 
So I made OpenBSD my workstation.  The last job I had to use windows10
and I cried... and eventually quit, I can't work with that, and I wish I
had my other job again.

Regards,

-peter


On 07/14/18 04:05, Man Hobby wrote:

> Hi,
>
> What is the opinion of employers about OpenBSD?
>
> There is reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job?
>
> If not, why?
>
> If there is not reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job, why use
> OpenBSD?

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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Flipchan
In reply to this post by Man Hobby
Pf is a must to know in my company

On July 14, 2018 2:05:09 AM UTC, Man Hobby <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>What is the opinion of employers about OpenBSD?
>
>There is reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job?
>
>If not, why?
>
>If there is not reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job, why use
>OpenBSD?

--
Take Care Sincerely flipchan layerprox dev
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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Peter N. M. Hansteen-3
In reply to this post by Man Hobby
On 07/14/18 04:05, Man Hobby wrote:

> What is the opinion of employers about OpenBSD?

Unfortunately you will find that despite our best efforts, a largish
chunk of the world, and even more so the less hands-on technical parts
of it, has not heard about OpenBSD at all.

If you're lucky enough to find a potential employer with one or more
people who *have* heard about any Unix other than Linux, there's a
goodish chance that OpenBSD experience may be a factor in your favor.

In fact I think during the several rounds of job hunting I've had since
OpenBSD references started turning up on my resume they've generally
helped my chances rather than otherwise.

That aside, spending any significant time using and studying OpenBSD is
bound to give you a better-than-otherwise understanding of how Unix
systems are supposed to work.

You may also (dangerously) get used to having defaults that are actually
sane and come to expect that everything has a man page with content that
actually matches the software and provides useful information.

Which in turn may have you swearing more than you would otherwise at the
imbecilities you will stumble across in other systems. Depending on a
number of external factors, swearing (certainly swearing at potential
employers) could be inadvisable in several thinkable contexts.

> There is reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job?
>
> If not, why?
>
> If there is not reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job, why use
> OpenBSD?

Back when I started using OpenBSD I already had a job. Starting to use
OpenBSD for various things had a measurable positive impact on my
working situation and that of my colleagues.

Even after I moved on from that job, I kept using OpenBSD for the stuff
I need to keep running with a minimum of fuss.

Whether using OpenBSD for anything will help you get a specific job
you're currently eyeing is unknowable from my perch. What I do know is
that using OpenBSD as my default system and lab environment has given me
a better grounding in Unix knowledge than I would have had otherwise and
that has come in handy when dealing with other Unix variants.

Long time misc'ers will probably forgive me pointing to my 'OpenBSD and
you' presentation (https://home.nuug.no/~peter/openbsd_and_you/) for
some further facts and some opinions of mine on the matter. Do click the
links to the references.

- Peter

--
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.

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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Daniel Bolgheroni-6
On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 11:47:48AM +0000, Peter N. M. Hansteen wrote:
> You may also (dangerously) get used to having defaults that are actually
> sane and come to expect that everything has a man page with content that
> actually matches the software and provides useful information.
>
> Which in turn may have you swearing more than you would otherwise at the
> imbecilities you will stumble across in other systems. Depending on a
> number of external factors, swearing (certainly swearing at potential
> employers) could be inadvisable in several thinkable contexts.

I see this as the major "drawback" of using OpenBSD almost exclusively.
You expect systems to be this high standard, and when they don't (which is
often), your patience can become limited when even the most basic things
on other systems is just a pain in the ass to get it working.

Speaking of OpenBSD in the work place, the shitty attitude of some
"engineers" is something to be concerned also. The kind of people who
dismiss solid (but unknown to them) solutions but bang their heads
against a wall on a 15-year tutorial found on an abandoned blog to get
something to work is everywhere.

--
db

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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Tom Smyth
In reply to this post by Man Hobby
Hello Man, all,

please find my answers in line and a little more  in line

On 14 July 2018 at 03:05, Man Hobby <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> What is the opinion of employers about OpenBSD?
>

as a small business owner who has benefited and use OpenBSD in
some critical components of our infrastructure we think highly of it.
and we are trying to expand our use of it in our business.

I dont think OpenBSD , BSD (or any Unix) is thought enough in college
It for some reason is not being introduced to college students studying
computer related degrees.
as an employer I would say that there could be more training programs
offered online to make the barrier of entry easier for BSD

I particularly like the effort that the folks in
http://www.bsdcertification.org/
are doing in particular I appreciate the time and effort Dru Lavigne has
put in to try to make the certification exams mean something.
I have taken the exam and the questions were well written, and fair.
and gave a fair indication of my knowledge of BSD at the time.

there are many certifications out there that are not worth the paper they
are written on, either because of exam dumps, exam questions not
quite capturing the candidates abilities.


I think the availability of readily available trained staff is a
consideration
when a business opts to adopt a technology. and I think that this can
impact whether or not a business adopts BSD



>
> There is reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job?
>

Proficiency in OpenBSD would mean that you have a good technical aptitude
you are not afraid of the command-line and you probably can script a few
things
to make our processes more efficient.
and you would be capable of managing Unix systems in particular
and with some additional training on systemd you would be able to run some
linux systems :) (not saying you want to learn systemd) .
OpenBSD skills are transferable and chances are you would
be able to show other Sys Admins in that job  the awesomeness of OpenBSD :)


> If not, why?
>
> If there is not reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job, why use
> OpenBSD?
>
Are you looking for a job or a career where you will be happy and possibly
make a difference  ? there are lots of jobs with lower skill requirements
however
the opportunity to develop your skills is  limited.
the more challenging  engaging jobs are fewer and farther between,

Lastly I would like to add that the project is not about being popular or
widely deployed
it is about improving security, through the use of good design and coding
practices.
where good design and coding is not enough they innovate to create exploit
mitigation
technologies. there is alot of work that they do to make all these things
happen. they focus
on that rather than trying to market themselves, or train newcomers. I
think users (like me)
should probably put more time into helping the project
(if we cant code perhaps we can write about how we build systems using
openBSD)

For more information on getting started on OpenBSD check out

http://www.openbsdjumpstart.org/
http://www.bsdcertification.org/
http://www.openbsd.org/events.html
https://www.romanzolotarev.com/   (the stuff that this guy has done in the
past year)
https://bsdly.blogspot.com/

there is some git up site that has a tonne of useful articles and blogs on
how other people
got cool things to work on openbsd and this would be useful (but I cant
remember it)
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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Rupert Gallagher
In reply to this post by Man Hobby
If someone is cocky about a certain unix-like OS on their CV but is unable to adhere to the standards while also using other unix-like OSs, they are shown the door where they came from.

A test example that comes to mind is writing /var content into /usr. Many people in this list would not get a job.

On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 04:05, Man Hobby <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi, What is the opinion of employers about OpenBSD? There is reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job? If not, why? If there is not reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job, why use OpenBSD?
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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Bodie-3


On 15.7.2018 17:12, Rupert Gallagher wrote:
> If someone is cocky about a certain unix-like OS on their CV but is
> unable to adhere to the standards while also using other unix-like
> OSs, they are shown the door where they came from.
>
> A test example that comes to mind is writing /var content into /usr.
> Many people in this list would not get a job.
>

What is a purpose of such test and what is expected to be proved by this
operation? Just curious, nothing more.

> On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 04:05, Man Hobby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi, What is the opinion of employers about OpenBSD? There is reason
>> for to learn use OpenBSD to find job? If not, why? If there is not
>> reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job, why use OpenBSD?

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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Rupert Gallagher
Spot the candidate that is aware of common standards, is brave enough to come forward saying that the test is flowed (we ask to write /var stuff inside /usr), and returns the POSIX-compliant solution, citing the standard.

On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 18:31, Bodie <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 15.7.2018 17:12, Rupert Gallagher wrote: > If someone is cocky about a certain unix-like OS on their CV but is > unable to adhere to the standards while also using other unix-like > OSs, they are shown the door where they came from. > > A test example that comes to mind is writing /var content into /usr. > Many people in this list would not get a job. > What is a purpose of such test and what is expected to be proved by this operation? Just curious, nothing more. > On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 04:05, Man Hobby wrote: > >> Hi, What is the opinion of employers about OpenBSD? There is reason >> for to learn use OpenBSD to find job? If not, why? If there is not >> reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job, why use OpenBSD? @gmail.com>
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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Jacqueline Jolicoeur
> Spot the candidate that is aware of common standards, is brave enough to come forward saying that the test is flowed (we ask to write /var stuff inside /usr), and returns the POSIX-compliant solution, citing the standard.

What if they are brave enough to decide to work elsewhere? A place
of employment without intentional flaws in interview questions for
example.

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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Steve Litt
In reply to this post by Man Hobby
On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 23:05:09 -0300
Man Hobby <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> What is the opinion of employers about OpenBSD?
>
> There is reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job?
>
> If not, why?
>
> If there is not reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job, why use
> OpenBSD?

One reason is so that if the corporate powers succeed in making
GNU/Linux into systemd/linux, I have a place to go for a simple, DIY OS
I can bend to my workflow instead of bending my workflow to
Poettering's vision.

SteveT

Steve Litt
Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/key
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt

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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Siju George
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 12:58 PM Steve Litt <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 23:05:09 -0300
> >
> > If there is not reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job, why use
> > OpenBSD?
>

I did not learn it to get a job. I used it in my job instead to get a
better network firewall than the M S Windows/Linux/FreeBSD variants. The
reasons for using OpenBSD can be gleaned from the OS website.

--Siju
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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Marko Cupać
In reply to this post by Man Hobby
On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 23:05:09 -0300
Man Hobby <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What is the opinion of employers about OpenBSD?
> There is reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job?
> If not, why?
> If there is not reason for to learn use OpenBSD to find job, why use
> OpenBSD?

There are employers and employers, as for mine I think their opinion
goes somewhere along the lines of "This is great, both technically and
financially wise, but I'd like to have more than one local guy who knows
how to run this stuff".

Hack with OpenBSD if you like it, and hopefully one day you will be
able to get some money from it.

Regards,
--
Before enlightenment - chop wood, draw water.
After  enlightenment - chop wood, draw water.

Marko Cupać
https://www.mimar.rs/

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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Diana Eichert
I've been on more than one interview committee, if you put OpenBSD
experience on your resume you would stand out in my eyes.  However
most of my co-workers know very little about anything beside MAC,
Winders or Linux, therefore it wouldn't help with them.

Use OpenBSD because you want to.

diana

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Re: Employers, Jobs and OpenBSD

Rupert Gallagher
In reply to this post by Jacqueline Jolicoeur
The name of the game is to select the best candidate, not to hire the average joe.

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 05:02, Jacqueline Jolicoeur <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Spot the candidate that is aware of common standards, is brave enough to come forward saying that the test is flowed (we ask to write /var stuff inside /usr), and returns the POSIX-compliant solution, citing the standard. What if they are brave enough to decide to work elsewhere? A place of employment without intentional flaws in interview questions for example.
12