Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

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Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Marc Espie-2
On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 12:55:04PM +0200, Nicolas Schmidt wrote:

>
> >> On 06/09/17 15:39, SOUL_OF_ROOT 55 wrote:
> >> Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?
> >
> > You?  No, I doubt it.
> ...
> > But, you are welcome, and invited
> ...
> > Nick.
>
> Nick, I don't think you were being either welcoming or inviting there.

Oh, come on this list isn't politically correct, and Nick's answer was
very funny. If the original poster doesn't see the humor, well, he's
probably not right for OpenBSD in any case.

And yeah, you must be this tall to run OpenBSD pretty much says it all
actually.

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Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

Matthew Fioravante
In reply to this post by Mihai Popescu-3
On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 9:20 PM, Mihai Popescu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > I dual boot now between Win7 and FreeBSD
> > on I lapdog I have 5 os on it and use grub2 to boot them
>
> Prepare in the upcoming messages for something like "OpenBSD destroyed
> my harddisk" subject line message! Just a warning.
>
>
OpenBSD 6.1 release has a bug with nvme drives. The disk partitioning
program in the installer read my gpt partition incorrectly. Once I noticed
this I immediately rebooted my machine but it was too late. The partition
table was completely hosed. I suspect that after the incorrect read maybe
it thought my disk was corrupted or had no table and wrote a fresh one for
me automatically.

It actually sounds like a bug that the installer would write to your disk
if you bail out before taking any action. Even if thinks (correctly or
incorrectly) that your disk may have a corrupted partition table it should
do no writes until you actually commit to repartitioning the disk.

The nvme bug appears to be fixed in the latest OpenBSD development
snapshots.

Dual booting OpenBSD is rather easy on UEFI systems. I've got Windows 10,
FreeBSD 11, OpenBSD Current, and Arch Linux all on my laptop.

I would suggest partitioning the disk manually first using a gparted livecd
or similar. Create the partitions and set all of the correct partition
types for your OSes before hand.

I did this and then OpenBSD correctly identified my OpenBSD partition and
installed the OS on it. Has no problem booting with UEFI/GPT with all of my
other OSes present.

Backing up your disk (including your partition table) first would be
prudent of course.
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Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

lists-2
In reply to this post by Marc Espie-2
Sun, 11 Jun 2017 00:43:19 +0200 Marc Espie <[hidden email]>

> On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 12:55:04PM +0200, Nicolas Schmidt wrote:
> >  
> > >> On 06/09/17 15:39, SOUL_OF_ROOT 55 wrote:
> > >> Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?  
> > >
> > > You?  No, I doubt it.  
> > ...  
> > > But, you are welcome, and invited  
> > ...  
> > > Nick.  
> >
> > Nick, I don't think you were being either welcoming or inviting there.  
>
> Oh, come on this list isn't politically correct, and Nick's answer was
> very funny. If the original poster doesn't see the humor, well, he's
> probably not right for OpenBSD in any case.
>
> And yeah, you must be this tall to run OpenBSD pretty much says it all
> actually.

Hi Nicolas,

Soul of root canal is a half retarded troll, totally lacking any character.
I can not believe you're still falling for their simply elemental tactics..

There is one absolutely zero diff between my init reply and Nick Holland's.
Continued further this thread is funny, amusing, and a complete time waste.

For the time being I can say you're all right and correct, but about amiss.
It is not any question "can they", it is those questions why "won't they"..

OpenBSD has always been and will continue to be, most developer use system.
Many if not most of us use the system on all machines completely dedicated.

You, Nicolas, can not defend any troll position here.  They can not use it.

Kind regards,
Anton Lazarov

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Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

Baho Utot
In reply to this post by Mihai Popescu-3


On 06/10/17 16:20, Mihai Popescu wrote:
>> I dual boot now between Win7 and FreeBSD
>> on I lapdog I have 5 os on it and use grub2 to boot them
>
> Prepare in the upcoming messages for something like "OpenBSD destroyed
> my harddisk" subject line message! Just a warning.
>

How is this helpful?

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Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

Kurt H Maier
On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 09:20:49PM -0400, Baho Utot wrote:
> > I dual boot now between Win7 and FreeBSD
> > on I lapdog I have 5 os on it and use grub2 to boot them
>
> How is this helpful?


I don't know.  Some people just like talking about their computers to
strangers, I guess.

khm

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Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

Ax0n
In reply to this post by Baho Utot
On dual-booting:

I have set up Windows/OpenBSD dual-boot quite a few times. Windows 7 and
Windows 10 instructions are all about the same, and the information in the
FAQ on multi-booting has enough info to get you started.
https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Multibooting

First, always have good backups, but especially make sure anything
important is backed up and tested before you embark on dual-booting with
Windows. It works best with a fresh install of everything, though. Use the
Windows installer to partition the drive. I like to have three partitions:
1 for Windows, 1 for OpenBSD and one for sharing files between the two.
Install Windows on the first partition.

Carefully install OpenBSD on the second partition. If memory serves
correctly, I had to shell out of the installer, use fdisk to change the
partition type of the OpenBSD partition, then go back into the installer
and tell it to use that partition. BE REALLY CAREFUL using fdisk and
setting up your partitions. after install, follow the FAQ guidance on using
dd to copy the PBR. I mounted a USB stick from the install environment and
copied the PBR to that, then to Windows.

Back in Windows, if you didn't f*** it up with the OpenBSD installer,
follow the FAQ guidance on using BCDEdit, or perhaps, use the free (for
non-commercial use) BCDEdit to add OpenBSD to the Windows bootloader.
Reboot. Get into OpenBSD, if you followed the instructions correctly.
Install exfat-fuse from packages, and use the mkfs.exfat tool to format the
third partition for shared files. For whatever reason, Windows doesn't like
to format hard disk partitions as Exfat, but you can do it from OpenBSD
easily enough.

Did I mention you should back up your data? Even I have messed up a few
times. Fortunately, it was just a fresh Windows install that got clobbered
last time I botched it.

Good luck. I hope you come to enjoy OpenBSD as much as I do.

On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Baho Utot <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I am currently using FreeBSD 11.0 and win7.  I have looked over OpenBSD
> and I like what I am seeing. I have several machine to install it on an old
> laptop Dell Inspirion 1501 and newer AMD64 machines with 8 cores and 16GB
> ram.  I would also like to install into Raspberry pi versions 2 and 3.
>
> I have the following questions:
>
> 1.      Where can I get a list of graphics card that are supported?
>
> 2.      Where can I find information on dual booting OpenBSD
>         and Windows?
>
> 3.      Does OpenBSD need to be on the primary disk drive or can
>         it be installed on the second drive with windos on the
>         first drive.
>
> 4.      Is the manul that is online, can it be obtained on a pdf?
>
> 5.      Where can I find information on wifi support?
>
> These are the important question I have for now.
>
> Thanks
>
>
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Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

bytevolcano
In reply to this post by lists-2
On Sun, 11 Jun 2017 02:32:10 +0300
[hidden email] wrote:
...

> Hi Nicolas,
>
> Soul of root canal is a half retarded troll, totally lacking any
> character. I can not believe you're still falling for their simply
> elemental tactics..
>
> There is one absolutely zero diff between my init reply and Nick
> Holland's. Continued further this thread is funny, amusing, and a
> complete time waste.
>
> For the time being I can say you're all right and correct, but about
> amiss. It is not any question "can they", it is those questions why
> "won't they"..
>
> OpenBSD has always been and will continue to be, most developer use
> system. Many if not most of us use the system on all machines
> completely dedicated.
>
> You, Nicolas, can not defend any troll position here.  They can not
> use it.
>
> Kind regards,
> Anton Lazarov
>

With a name like SOUL_OF_ROOT_CANAL I wonder what he is trying to
achieve. He's not likely to hurt anyone, but he'll get a lot of
mischievous or sarcastic responses.

As for using OpenBSD as a desktop system: yes it is possible with a bit
of work. Over the years I have created a decent configuration of a basic
desktop using the FVWM in the base. The good thing is that once you
have done the hard work, it seems to survive major updates if you back
up the right config files, sure beats Windows and the registry.

As newer versions of OpenBSD are released, I may tweak the setup if the
new release comes with an interesting feature, or removes a feature, or
allows my configuration to be simpler.

I hope to put Windows to rest by 2020, just as Windows 7 reaches the
end of extended support.

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Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

Marko Cupać
In reply to this post by Kurt H Maier
On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 21:07:59 -0700
Kurt H Maier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't know.  Some people just like talking about their computers to
> strangers, I guess.
>

4-way native uefi boot of Windows, FreeBSD, OpenBSD and Linux, with
shared FAT32 partition:

pacija@efreet-freebsd:~ % sudo gpart show ada0
=>       34  468862061  ada0  GPT  (224G)
         34       2014        - free -  (1.0M)
       2048     921600     1  ms-recovery  (450M)
     923648     204800     2  efi  (100M)
    1128448      32768     3  ms-reserved  (16M)
    1161216  125829120     4  ms-basic-data  (60G)
  126990336   33554432     5  freebsd-ufs  (16G)
  160544768    8388608     6  freebsd-swap  (4.0G)
  168933376   41943040     7  openbsd-data  (20G)
  210876416   33554432     8  linux-data  (16G)
  244430848    8388608     9  linux-swap  (4.0G)
  252819456  216042639    10  ms-basic-data  (103G)

Works for me :)
--
Before enlightenment - chop wood, draw water.
After  enlightenment - chop wood, draw water.

Marko Cupać
https://www.mimar.rs/

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Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Flipchan
In reply to this post by SOUL_OF_ROOT 55
Yes just download the desktop manager u want with pkg_add

On June 9, 2017 9:39:30 PM GMT+02:00, SOUL_OF_ROOT 55 <[hidden email]> wrote:
>Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

--
Take Care Sincerely flipchan layerprox dev
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Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Alexander Hall
In reply to this post by bytevolcano



>With a name like SOUL_OF_ROOT_CANAL I wonder what he is trying to

FWIW, that's not the name he's been using.

So far he hasn't proven to be anything but an ass though.

Cheers, Alexander

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Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Mihai Popescu-3
In reply to this post by SOUL_OF_ROOT 55
> FWIW, that's not the name he's been using

Is that '55' from 'SOUL_OF_ROOT 55' a 'SS' in fact?

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Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Rupert Gallagher
In reply to this post by SOUL_OF_ROOT 55
I spent yesterday and today installing 6.1 from scratch on a Dell Optiplex gx620. The machine has a pentium 4 @3.0GHz with 4GB non ECC RAM, returning a passmark of 354*. The aim is to replace the accountant's windows 10 pro tomorrow morning, moving the disk into his more recent Dell. In summary, I have everything he needs, including a gui that looks like windows 7, except for the following, so far:

a toolbar icon for the printer and a gui for cups, configuring and testing the printer (cups), the scanner (sane),  and the remote desktop to a windows server (vnc).

The only thing that refrains me from using it myself is the lack of Apple-like keyboard shortcuts on everything. They are a real time saver; forget about mouse and menu bars, you do everything everywhere with the same command-s, command-c, command-z, etc. By comparison, copying and pasting across windows and vim on other OSs is a royal pain. Opening tabs on terminal, firefox, file manager, vim, you name it: just command-t.

Anyway, it works, it is rock solid, and it is fucking fast, excuse my French. The only app that heats up the CPU is fucking firefox, excuse my French again. So, pending the above, the resulting desktop OS would be good enough for everyday office use, PXE bootable and ansible/remotely configurable.

*By comparison, the NUC6I5SYK has a passmark of 4300, 12x faster than this Dell.
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Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Davor Balder


On 06/12/17 06:06, Rupert Gallagher wrote:
> I spent yesterday and today installing 6.1 from scratch on a Dell Optiplex gx620. The machine has a pentium 4 @3.0GHz with 4GB non ECC RAM, returning a passmark of 354*. The aim is to replace the accountant's windows 10 pro tomorrow morning, moving the disk into his more recent Dell. In summary, I have everything he needs, including a gui that looks like windows 7, except for the following, so far:
>
> a toolbar icon for the printer and a gui for cups, configuring and testing the printer (cups), the scanner (sane),  and the remote desktop to a windows server (vnc).
>
> The only thing that refrains me from using it myself is the lack of Apple-like keyboard shortcuts on everything. They are a real time saver; forget about mouse and menu bars, you do everything everywhere with the same command-s, command-c, command-z, etc. By comparison, copying and pasting across windows and vim on other OSs is a royal pain. Opening tabs on terminal, firefox, file manager, vim, you name it: just command-t.
xfce is available and you should be able to use mac-like shortcuts
there. I think this relates to your chaoice of window manager/desktop
environment. We have choices!
>
> Anyway, it works, it is rock solid, and it is fucking fast, excuse my French. The only app that heats up the CPU is fucking firefox, excuse my French again. So, pending the above, the resulting desktop OS would be good enough for everyday office use, PXE bootable and ansible/remotely configurable.
I've been using seamonkey and qutebrowser with good results.
> *By comparison, the NUC6I5SYK has a passmark of 4300, 12x faster than this Dell.

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Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Donald Allen
On 11 June 2017 at 19:16, Davor Balder <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On 06/12/17 06:06, Rupert Gallagher wrote:
>>
>> I spent yesterday and today installing 6.1 from scratch on a Dell Optiplex
>> gx620. The machine has a pentium 4 @3.0GHz with 4GB non ECC RAM, returning a
>> passmark of 354*. The aim is to replace the accountant's windows 10 pro
>> tomorrow morning, moving the disk into his more recent Dell. In summary, I
>> have everything he needs, including a gui that looks like windows 7, except
>> for the following, so far:
>>
>> a toolbar icon for the printer and a gui for cups, configuring and testing
>> the printer (cups), the scanner (sane),  and the remote desktop to a windows
>> server (vnc).
>>
>> The only thing that refrains me from using it myself is the lack of
>> Apple-like keyboard shortcuts on everything. They are a real time saver;
>> forget about mouse and menu bars, you do everything everywhere with the same
>> command-s, command-c, command-z, etc. By comparison, copying and pasting
>> across windows and vim on other OSs is a royal pain. Opening tabs on
>> terminal, firefox, file manager, vim, you name it: just command-t.

They are not everyone's cup of tea, but I use a tiling window manager
with OpenBSD (I like xmonad, but there are other choices: dwm, i3,
awesome; there's also spectrwm, written originally, I believe, by
someone formerly associated with OpenBSD; I've tried it multiple times
over the years and always had problems with it). The point of these
things is, at least in part, exactly what you are talking about --
avoiding having to move between keyboard and mouse by providing
keyboard commands for just about everything (everything you describe
above is just as easy with my setup as on a Mac; I've used both and
prefer the OpenBSD/xmonad setup). Tilers also eliminate the need to
spend time rearranging windows. I do not use a desktop system; just
the window manager, the Rox filer and dmenu. I used xmobar for battery
and date-time info displayed on the bar at the top of the screen.

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Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Davor Balder

On 06/12/17 10:54, Donald Allen wrote:

> On 11 June 2017 at 19:16, Davor Balder <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 06/12/17 06:06, Rupert Gallagher wrote:
>>> I spent yesterday and today installing 6.1 from scratch on a Dell Optiplex
>>> gx620. The machine has a pentium 4 @3.0GHz with 4GB non ECC RAM, returning a
>>> passmark of 354*. The aim is to replace the accountant's windows 10 pro
>>> tomorrow morning, moving the disk into his more recent Dell. In summary, I
>>> have everything he needs, including a gui that looks like windows 7, except
>>> for the following, so far:
>>>
>>> a toolbar icon for the printer and a gui for cups, configuring and testing
>>> the printer (cups), the scanner (sane),  and the remote desktop to a windows
>>> server (vnc).
>>>
>>> The only thing that refrains me from using it myself is the lack of
>>> Apple-like keyboard shortcuts on everything. They are a real time saver;
>>> forget about mouse and menu bars, you do everything everywhere with the same
>>> command-s, command-c, command-z, etc. By comparison, copying and pasting
>>> across windows and vim on other OSs is a royal pain. Opening tabs on
>>> terminal, firefox, file manager, vim, you name it: just command-t.
> They are not everyone's cup of tea, but I use a tiling window manager
> with OpenBSD (I like xmonad, but there are other choices: dwm, i3,
> awesome; there's also spectrwm, written originally, I believe, by
> someone formerly associated with OpenBSD; I've tried it multiple times
> over the years and always had problems with it). The point of these
> things is, at least in part, exactly what you are talking about --
> avoiding having to move between keyboard and mouse by providing
> keyboard commands for just about everything (everything you describe
> above is just as easy with my setup as on a Mac; I've used both and
> prefer the OpenBSD/xmonad setup). Tilers also eliminate the need to
> spend time rearranging windows. I do not use a desktop system; just
> the window manager, the Rox filer and dmenu. I used xmobar for battery
> and date-time info displayed on the bar at the top of the screen.
>

You are right.

For example on my setup, I've been playing with cwm and fvwm of late. I
also have xfce and gnome installed that I use less frequently.

A word of warning: I found I have issues with libreoffice running in cwm
(it crashes). However, if I load thunar then crashes are not as
frequent.  Loading nautilus in cwm and then libreoffice completely kills
X and puts me in command line.

Fvwm (interestingly enough) does not give me any of those issues so I
have been running fvwm if I have to edit a document in libreoffice (my
work requires me to do this). I am happy and comfortable with this
minimalist setup. Command line is my friend!

I will be happier when abiword is updated to the recent version (there
is a black screen bug with the current port/version). Abiword is lighter
than libreoffice writer.

Cheers

D

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Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Rupert Gallagher
In reply to this post by Davor Balder
On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 1:16 AM, Davor Balder <[hidden email]> wrote:

> xfce is available and you should be able to use mac-like shortcuts there. I think this relates to your chaoice of window manager/desktop
environment. We have choices!

Using xfce already, but Apple-like shortcuts did not work so far.

> I've been using seamonkey and qutebrowser with good results.

Will try them.

I have a privacy and security protocol that I could implement on firefox only, across different OSs, with extensions, configurations and changes to the code. The result is better than torbrowser.

I installed chromium on openbsd, but was greeted by chrome instead. I tried hard to to secure chrome, but each step I took resulted in greater leaks.

I expected the openbsd version of both ff and chrome to be safer by default. There is s lot of work to be done. Will share more next weekend.

R
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Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

acampbell
In reply to this post by Donald Allen
On 11 Jun 2017, Donald Allen wrote:
> On 11 June 2017 at 19:16, Davor Balder <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> They are not everyone's cup of tea, but I use a tiling window manager
> with OpenBSD (I like xmonad, but there are other choices: dwm, i3,
> awesome; there's also spectrwm, written originally, I believe, by
> someone formerly associated with OpenBSD; I've tried it multiple times
> over the years and always had problems with it). The point of these
[snip]

Interesting; I've used spectrwm exclusively for the last 3+ years and
like it better than any of the tiling alternatives.

--
Anthony Campbell http://www.acampbell.uk

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Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Solene Rapenne
In reply to this post by Rupert Gallagher
Je 2017-06-12 07:45, Rupert Gallagher skribis:

> On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 1:16 AM, Davor Balder <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> xfce is available and you should be able to use mac-like shortcuts
>> there. I think this relates to your chaoice of window manager/desktop
> environment. We have choices!
>
> Using xfce already, but Apple-like shortcuts did not work so far.
>
>> I've been using seamonkey and qutebrowser with good results.
>
> Will try them.
>
> I have a privacy and security protocol that I could implement on
> firefox only, across different OSs, with extensions, configurations
> and changes to the code. The result is better than torbrowser.
>
> I installed chromium on openbsd, but was greeted by chrome instead. I
> tried hard to to secure chrome, but each step I took resulted in
> greater leaks.
>
> I expected the openbsd version of both ff and chrome to be safer by
> default. There is s lot of work to be done. Will share more next
> weekend.
>
> R

You can use iridium instead of chromium

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Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Rupert Gallagher
Re: iridium

Nice try, but my FF scores much better results.
I will dig into iridium's source next weekend.

R
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Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Donald Allen
In reply to this post by acampbell
On 12 June 2017 at 03:02, Anthony Campbell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 11 Jun 2017, Donald Allen wrote:
>> On 11 June 2017 at 19:16, Davor Balder <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> They are not everyone's cup of tea, but I use a tiling window manager
>> with OpenBSD (I like xmonad, but there are other choices: dwm, i3,
>> awesome; there's also spectrwm, written originally, I believe, by
>> someone formerly associated with OpenBSD; I've tried it multiple times
>> over the years and always had problems with it). The point of these
> [snip]
>
> Interesting; I've used spectrwm exclusively for the last 3+ years and
> like it better than any of the tiling alternatives.

It's been quite awhile since I tried it and it's possible the issues
I've encountered have been fixed. Or that they were specific to my
video hardware.

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