Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
50 messages Options
123
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

SOUL_OF_ROOT 55
Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Johan Mellberg
Yes.

2017-06-09 21:39 GMT+02:00 SOUL_OF_ROOT 55 <[hidden email]>:

> Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?
>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Edgar Pettijohn III-2
As long as you can type startx at the command prompt, then yes.

⁣Sent from BlueMail ​

On Jun 9, 2017, 3:07 PM, at 3:07 PM, Johan Mellberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>Yes.
>
>2017-06-09 21:39 GMT+02:00 SOUL_OF_ROOT 55 <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?
>>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Davor Balder
In reply to this post by Johan Mellberg
Installing is not hard. It can be done in 15 min if you are comfortable
with UNIX.

Peruse this and enjoy: http://sohcahtoa.org.uk/openbsd.html#0

Cheers

D


On 10/06/17 06:06, Johan Mellberg wrote:
> Yes.
>
> 2017-06-09 21:39 GMT+02:00 SOUL_OF_ROOT 55 <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?
>>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Ingo Schwarze
In reply to this post by Johan Mellberg
Johan Mellberg wrote on Fri, Jun 09, 2017 at 10:06:18PM +0200:
> 2017-06-09 21:39 GMT+02:00 SOUL_OF_ROOT 55 <[hidden email]>:

>> Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

> Yes.

To provide an example:

On my private desktops and laptops, i never ran anything else since 2001.

And even at work, i only made two exceptions:

From 2003 to 2006, i had one Windows desktop at work because i had to run
a specific commercial binary-only accounting software.

And for a few months in 2007, i ran Debian GNU/Linux on one desktop
at a new job in a software company before i defied the official
company policy of "you can run whatever you want on your desktop,
but it must be Linux" and installed OpenBSD instead.  If anybody
had ever asked, my answer would have been "I consider OpenBSD a
Linux distribution: for all practical purposes, i can run the same
software on it, and i can work much more efficiently with it."
But nobody ever asked.

For the last ten years, nothing else on the desktop, neither privately
nor at work...

Yours,
  Ingo

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Nick Holland
In reply to this post by SOUL_OF_ROOT 55
On 06/09/17 15:39, SOUL_OF_ROOT 55 wrote:
> Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

You?  No, I doubt it.

Me, it's pretty much all I use as a home desktop system.

But you didn't seem to want to give it a try to find out for yourself,
or define what you mean by a "desktop system", or do some basic
research, like maybe googling for "openbsd desktop".  So it might be
quite an uphill battle for you.   You must be so --->  <--- smart to
ride this ride.

But, you are welcome, and invited, to give it a try.  Prove me wrong! :)

Nick.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Solene Rapenne
In reply to this post by Edgar Pettijohn III-2
typing startx isn't even needed if you enable xenodm at install

Je 2017-06-10 00:00, Edgar Pettijohn skribis:

> As long as you can type startx at the command prompt, then yes.
>
> ⁣Sent from BlueMail ​
>
> On Jun 9, 2017, 3:07 PM, at 3:07 PM, Johan Mellberg
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Yes.
>>
>> 2017-06-09 21:39 GMT+02:00 SOUL_OF_ROOT 55 <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>> Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?
>>>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Stephane HUC "PengouinBSD"
In reply to this post by SOUL_OF_ROOT 55
Yes, u can!
And you can read the FAQ about X Window System:
https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq11.html

;)

In fact, i use on Dell AlienWare AW13 :p

Le 06/09/17 à 21:39, SOUL_OF_ROOT 55 a écrit :
> Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?
>

--
~ " Fully Basic System Distinguish Life! " ~ " Libre as a BSD " +=<<<
----
<me>Stephane HUC as PengouinBSD or CIOTBSD</me>
<mail>[hidden email]</mail>


signature.asc (849 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Nicolas Schmidt-2
In reply to this post by Nick Holland

>> On 06/09/17 15:39, SOUL_OF_ROOT 55 wrote:
>> Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?
>
> You?  No, I doubt it.
...
> But, you are welcome, and invited
...
> Nick.

Nick, I don't think you were being either welcoming or inviting there.

To answer OP's question: Yes of course you can, and I did so in the past. The experience wasn't bad, although of course using any free Unix as a desktop system is guaranteed to deliver some pain at least (don't expect it to "just work").

Nicolas
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Donald Allen
On 10 June 2017 at 06:55, Nicolas Schmidt
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>>> On 06/09/17 15:39, SOUL_OF_ROOT 55 wrote:
>>> Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?
>>
>> You?  No, I doubt it.
> ...
>> But, you are welcome, and invited
> ...
>> Nick.
>
> Nick, I don't think you were being either welcoming or inviting there.
>
> To answer OP's question: Yes of course you can, and I did so in the past. The experience wasn't bad, although of course using any free Unix as a desktop system is guaranteed to deliver some pain at least (don't expect it to "just work").

I disagree a bit. Over the years, I've run a variety of Linux systems,
plus all the BSD systems, including Dragonfly. Quite awhile ago, I
settled on OpenBSD as my primary system, and I run it on all my
machines where the hardware is supported, which pretty much means
something other than Nvidia video hardware (I have one such beast, on
which I run Slackware). Installing OpenBSD is as painless as any of
them and probably takes less time than any of them to get to the
initial boot-up. I have a script that sets up PKG_PATH and then
pkg_adds the packages I need. I run a minimal setup, with a window
manager and a few supporting applications, e.g., dmenu, rox, I do find
that I have to modify the default datasizes in /etc/login.conf to
prevent firefox from running out of memory and collapsing. I also set
up an /etc/doas.conf (thank you Ted!) so things that require root
privileges can be done without a fuss.

I've chosen this system because of the attention to security, its
quality (it is just rock solid), and the documentation (the best, by a
significant margin). Performance was an issue for me in the past, but
that is no longer the case. I've gotten the impression that a lot of
effort has gone into performance recently and it shows. I run
'current', by the way, and the only problems I've encountered were my
own doing.

/Don

>
> Nicolas

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Mihai Popescu-3
In reply to this post by SOUL_OF_ROOT 55
> Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

I don't think so, because OpenBSD does not care about desktop users.
In fact, the solely purpose of OpenBSD system is to make/build the next release.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

Manuel Solis
May i suggest you to check
https://sivers.org/openbsd

It helped me when i was just starting because mr sivers share a few tips and config files to begin working with openBSD in minutes.

In my case in did change the window manager later from ratpoison to i3 and then finally i was able to config cwm. (Really cool to have all system up and running in 60 mb RAM usage!!)

Manuel

El 10/06/2017, a las 08:07, Mihai Popescu <[hidden email]> escribió:

>> Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?
>
> I don't think so, because OpenBSD does not care about desktop users.
> In fact, the solely purpose of OpenBSD system is to make/build the next release.
>
G
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system?

G
I would say it depends.

1. What are your requirements

-Do you need to propriety programs like Skype?
Skype don't run on openbsd

-Do you need the latest software?
You might don't find the latest software on the ports. Of course you can
always port it if its open source on OpenBSD but its time consuming.

-What do you think should happen when a program has a memory bug
if you think that it should be terminated then openbsd is fine for you.

-Do you need a really secure OS?
Security is openbsd focus.



2. What is your hardware?

-OpenBSD doesn't support newer hardware. Skylake etc
 I bought my laptop last summer and my laptop wasn't usable until a
couple of months ago.
Skylake wasn't supported, I couldn't use the browser, the webcam, the
wifi, the bluetooth or the card reader and writing to my usb was
extremely slow.
I uninstall openbsd and installed it a couple of months ago. Now wifi
works (although still not perfect) and browser works fine.
I usually don't need webcam or card reader so I don't mind that much
that they don't work. I also have a second laptop in case I need webcam
or card reader.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

Baho Utot
In reply to this post by Manuel Solis
I am currently using FreeBSD 11.0 and win7.  I have looked over OpenBSD
and I like what I am seeing. I have several machine to install it on an
old laptop Dell Inspirion 1501 and newer AMD64 machines with 8 cores and
16GB ram.  I would also like to install into Raspberry pi versions 2 and 3.

I have the following questions:

1. Where can I get a list of graphics card that are supported?

2. Where can I find information on dual booting OpenBSD
        and Windows?

3. Does OpenBSD need to be on the primary disk drive or can
        it be installed on the second drive with windos on the
        first drive.

4. Is the manul that is online, can it be obtained on a pdf?

5. Where can I find information on wifi support?

These are the important question I have for now.

Thanks

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

techay
You will find all of your answers on the FAQ, in regards to the PDF stuff well you can export man pages as PDF's.

https://www.openbsd.org/faq/

Good luck and enjoy OpenBSD

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD
Local Time: June 10, 2017 7:30 PM
UTC Time: June 10, 2017 5:30 PM
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]

I am currently using FreeBSD 11.0 and win7. I have looked over OpenBSD
and I like what I am seeing. I have several machine to install it on an
old laptop Dell Inspirion 1501 and newer AMD64 machines with 8 cores and
16GB ram. I would also like to install into Raspberry pi versions 2 and 3.

I have the following questions:

1. Where can I get a list of graphics card that are supported?

2. Where can I find information on dual booting OpenBSD
and Windows?

3. Does OpenBSD need to be on the primary disk drive or can
it be installed on the second drive with windos on the
first drive.

4. Is the manul that is online, can it be obtained on a pdf?

5. Where can I find information on wifi support?

These are the important question I have for now.

Thanks
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

Ingo Schwarze
In reply to this post by Baho Utot
Hi,

Baho Utot wrote on Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 01:30:46PM -0400:

> 1. Where can I get a list of graphics card that are supported?

 $ man -s 4 -k graphic drm radeon

On modern amd64, it is mostly intel(4) and radeon(4).
Stay away from NVidia unless you want to use vga(4).

> 2. Where can I find information on dual booting OpenBSD
> and Windows?

Don't do it.  Use separate hardware.  Dual booting is only
asking for trouble.  It's not impossible if you know what you
are doing, but even then, it's not worth it.  If you have to ask
how it works, just don't do it.

> 4. Is the manul that is online, can it be obtained on a pdf?

 $ time man -M/usr/share/man -Tpdf -ak Nd~. > all.pdf
    1m03.33s real     0m52.16s user     0m03.22s system
 $ wc all.pdf                                                  
    165640334 587327767 3457322371 all.pdf

That's only the base system manual (without X11 = Xenocara).

Even though building it with mandoc(1) only takes a minute
on my notebook, i'm not sure it's a great idea to put all
that information into a single file.

It's a 15458 page, 3.5 Gigabyte PDF.

If you want to read specific sections, you can use more
specific commands, see apropos(1).

Or you can view individual typeset pages like this:

 $ doas pkg_add gv
 $ man -Tps pledge | gv -

> 5. Where can I find information on wifi support?

 $ man -k wireless

 https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq6.html#Wireless

Yours,
  Ingo

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen
On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 08:12:31PM +0200, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Baho Utot wrote on Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 01:30:46PM -0400:
>
> > 5. Where can I find information on wifi support?
>
>  $ man -k wireless
>
>  https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq6.html#Wireless

Also, http://man.openbsd.org/ is very useful - go there, type
your keyword in the search field, click apropos and you get all
the man pages matching that keyword.

--
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

Baho Utot
In reply to this post by Ingo Schwarze


On 06/10/17 14:12, Ingo Schwarze wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Baho Utot wrote on Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 01:30:46PM -0400:
>
>> 1. Where can I get a list of graphics card that are supported?
>
>   $ man -s 4 -k graphic drm radeon
>
> On modern amd64, it is mostly intel(4) and radeon(4).
> Stay away from NVidia unless you want to use vga(4).
>
>> 2. Where can I find information on dual booting OpenBSD
>> and Windows?
>
> Don't do it.  Use separate hardware.  Dual booting is only
> asking for trouble.  It's not impossible if you know what you
> are doing, but even then, it's not worth it.  If you have to ask
> how it works, just don't do it.
>

I dual boot now between Win7 and FreeBSD
on I lapdog I have 5 os on it and use grub2 to boot them


>> 4. Is the manul that is online, can it be obtained on a pdf?
>
>   $ time man -M/usr/share/man -Tpdf -ak Nd~. > all.pdf
>      1m03.33s real     0m52.16s user     0m03.22s system
>   $ wc all.pdf
>      165640334 587327767 3457322371 all.pdf
>
> That's only the base system manual (without X11 = Xenocara).
>
> Even though building it with mandoc(1) only takes a minute
> on my notebook, i'm not sure it's a great idea to put all
> that information into a single file.
>
> It's a 15458 page, 3.5 Gigabyte PDF.
>
> If you want to read specific sections, you can use more
> specific commands, see apropos(1).
>
> Or you can view individual typeset pages like this:
>
>   $ doas pkg_add gv
>   $ man -Tps pledge | gv -
>
>> 5. Where can I find information on wifi support?
>
>   $ man -k wireless
>
>   https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq6.html#Wireless
>
> Yours,
>    Ingo
>

Thanks

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

Mihai Popescu-3
In reply to this post by Baho Utot
> I dual boot now between Win7 and FreeBSD
> on I lapdog I have 5 os on it and use grub2 to boot them

Prepare in the upcoming messages for something like "OpenBSD destroyed
my harddisk" subject line message! Just a warning.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

Ingo Schwarze
In reply to this post by Ingo Schwarze
Hi Erling,

Erling Westenvik wrote on Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 10:08:57PM +0200:

> Probably a stupid question but:
> Why isn't the -T switch documented in man(1)?

Not a stupid question at all.

First answer:
It is, look at man(1) and you will find this sentence:

  The options -IKOTW are also supported and are documented in mandoc(1).

Second answer:

The reason why it isn't in the SYNOPSIS, in the usage(), and in the
main options list is that jmc@ insisted that the man(1) manual page
better be short and simple, and advanced stuff that is more fully
documented in mandoc(1), and more often needed in mandoc(1), not
be duplicated there.  He kind of has a point.  The man(1) manual
is most important for beginners and should better not overwhelm
them.  Advanced users are likely to also find their way if finding
the advanced features requires carefully studying the *whole* text.


I designed the user interface of the OpenBSD versions of man(1),
apropos(1), whatis(1), and mandoc(1) such that all four support
exactly the same options, such that you only need to learn one set
of options, which is not true on other operating systems.  If you
like a bit of confusion now and then, take a look at:

  http://mdocml.bsd.lv/man/man.options.1.html

Yes, -AxY are the only three option letters not yet taken, and all
except -BGJjNOUXyZz have conflicting meanings; the record holders
are -c with nine different meanings, -p and -s with eight, -f and
-w with seven, and several with six different meanings.  Talk about
history -- as if nobody ever looked at what anybody else did...

On OpenBSD, if you like, you can access all functionality of the
four utilities with man(1):

  apropos == man -k
  whatis  == man -f
  mandoc  == man -cl

Also, our options are designed to naturally form four groups
and are firmly grounded in BSD history, with one exception
adopted from Colin Watson's Debian Linux man-db package:

 1. Search options decide which directories are used for searches:

     -M  override MANPATH ("manpath", 4.3BSD man, 1986)
     -m  augment MANPATH ("manpath", 4.3BSD-Reno man, 1990)
     -S  restrict architecture ("subsection", OpenBSD 2.3 man, 1998)
     -s  restrict manual section ("section", OpenBSD 2.3 man, 1998)

 2. Input options decide how command line arguments are interpreted:

     -k  use full search query syntax ("keywords", 4BSD man, 1980)
         (default for -k) search substrings in title lines only
     -f  complete words to be matched in names only ("find", 4BSD man, 1980)
         (default for man(1)) exact match of complete names
     -l  accept file names, ignore search options ("local", man-db 2.2a7, 1994)

 3. Parse options influence interpretation of the input files:

     -I  set default value for .Os macro ("input", OpenBSD 5.2 mandoc, 2012)
     -K  force an input character encoding ("enKoding", groff-1.20, 2005)
     -m  force an input macro language ("macro language", v7 troff, 1979)

 4. Output options decide how output is presented:

     -a  show all matching pages, formatted ("all", 4.3BSD-Tahoe man, 1988)
         (default for man(1)) show the first matching page, formatted
     -T  select an output format for formatting ("terminal", v7 nroff, 1979)
     -O  set output format specific options ("output", OpenBSD 4.8 mandoc, 2009)
     -c  do no use a pager ("copy to stdout", 4.3BSD-Reno man, 1990)
     -h  show the SYNOPSIS sections only ("head", 4.3BSD-Net/2 man, 1991)
         (default for -k and -h) show title lines only
     -w  show file names only ("where", v7 man, 1979)
     -W  select a message level ("warn", OpenBSD 4.8 mandoc, 2009)

 5. One special option can influence search, parse, and output options:

     -C  select alternate config file ("config", 4.4BSD-Lite1 apropos, 1994)

Unfortunately, this structure cannot easily be represented in
the manual pages without bloating them and making them less readable.

Several of the option letters could be more mnemonic.  But they
come from six different programs (troff, nroff, groff, man, apropos,
mandoc) and five different operating systems (Version 7 AT&T Unix,
4.xBSD, groff, Debian man-db, OpenBSD) and the oldest (-mTw) have
been established since 1979, so people have become so used to them
for several decades that it's much too late to change any of them.

Yours,
  Ingo

123