Bluetooth support status

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Bluetooth support status

John Brahy-2
Hello,

Just curious if there was any change in OpenBSD supporting bluetooth.

In this commit from tedu@ it's saying that support was ripped out of the
kernel because it never really worked.

https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-cvs&m=140511572108715&w=2

man -k blue brings up nothing appros.

Thanks,

JB
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Re: Bluetooth support status

Consus-2
On 17:12 Tue 06 Aug, John Brahy wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Just curious if there was any change in OpenBSD supporting bluetooth.

Sadly, there is none.

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Re: Bluetooth support status

John Brahy-2
ok, thanks. Bluetooth is overcomplicated and if it's not managed properly
it just opens up the attack surface for no reason.

It definitely makes some things easy but there are always workarounds.


On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 11:52 PM Consus <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 17:12 Tue 06 Aug, John Brahy wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Just curious if there was any change in OpenBSD supporting bluetooth.
>
> Sadly, there is none.
>
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Re: Bluetooth support status

Bryan Wright
Are there technical/philosophical problems that make all versions of Bluetooth incompatible with the project, or is it a just matter of removing what is not being maintained?

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Re: Bluetooth support status

Theo de Raadt-2
Bryan Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Are there technical/philosophical problems that make all versions of
> Bluetooth incompatible with the project, or is it a just matter of
> removing what is not being maintained?

I'm sure a bunch of you can come up with theories about what actually
transpired, without reading any of the code that used to be here, or
the commit messages.

Basically, feel free to keep making up stuff.

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Re: Bluetooth support status

John Brahy-2
Right, without reading the code and only reading this commit message
it's all conjecture.

I was just hoping to hear something more if someone was inclined to share.

 inclined. The commit message seems like some sort of inside joke.




Log message:
"It's not the years, honey; it's the mileage."

bluetooth support doesn't work and isn't going anywhere. the current
design is a dead end, and should not be the basis for any future support.
general consensus says to whack it so as to not mislead the unwary.


On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 10:06 AM Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Bryan Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Are there technical/philosophical problems that make all versions of
> > Bluetooth incompatible with the project, or is it a just matter of
> > removing what is not being maintained?
>
> I'm sure a bunch of you can come up with theories about what actually
> transpired, without reading any of the code that used to be here, or
> the commit messages.
>
> Basically, feel free to keep making up stuff.
>
>
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Re: Bluetooth support status

Bryan Wright
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt-2

> On Aug 7, 2019, at 10:06, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Bryan Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Are there technical/philosophical problems that make all versions of
>> Bluetooth incompatible with the project, or is it a just matter of
>> removing what is not being maintained?
>
> I'm sure a bunch of you can come up with theories about what actually
> transpired, without reading any of the code that used to be here, or
> the commit messages.
>
> Basically, feel free to keep making up stuff.
>

I’m sorry, Theo.  I’ve read some, but I’m sure I haven’t read all the history.  I didn’t mean anything by my question, but perhaps I should have done more reading before asking.  Apologies.

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Re: Bluetooth support status

Theo de Raadt-2
In reply to this post by John Brahy-2
Wow, look -- more useless chatter on the topic.

The bt stack we had was designed as "network code", and all sorts of
complex layer violations and device hand-offs were very complicated and
troublesome.

The code was not deleted because bluetooth is shit.  The code was
deleted *because it was shitty and unsuited to the purpose*

And then noone stepped up to write new code.  THAT IS THE WHOLE STORY.

People on misc often want some complicated conspiracy, and fails to
understand it is ALWAYS that "someone has to write the code and maintain
it", and if such a person doesn't exist then either (a) the code doesn't
exist, or (b) the code sucks and people complain about it until (c) we
delete it and then (d) people on misc try to invent fake history.

Since no such person existed, (a) led to (c) and here we are at (d).

I wish everyone would stop making uneducated guesses and trying to
rewrite history that isn't STUDIED and understand.  In particular what
bothers me is the LACK OF STUDY, but this is misc, STUDYING stuff is
clearly too hard, and making uneducated guesses is the norm.

John Brahy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Right, without reading the code and only reading this commit message it's all conjecture.
> I was just hoping to hear something more if someone was inclined to share.
>  inclined. The commit message seems like some sort of inside joke.
>
> Log message:
> "It's not the years, honey; it's the mileage."
>
> bluetooth support doesn't work and isn't going anywhere. the current
> design is a dead end, and should not be the basis for any future support.
> general consensus says to whack it so as to not mislead the unwary.
>
> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 10:06 AM Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  Bryan Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  > Are there technical/philosophical problems that make all versions of
>  > Bluetooth incompatible with the project, or is it a just matter of
>  > removing what is not being maintained?
>
>  I'm sure a bunch of you can come up with theories about what actually
>  transpired, without reading any of the code that used to be here, or
>  the commit messages.
>
>  Basically, feel free to keep making up stuff.
>

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Re: Bluetooth support status

Theo de Raadt-2
In reply to this post by Bryan Wright
Bryan Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > On Aug 7, 2019, at 10:06, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Bryan Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Are there technical/philosophical problems that make all versions of
> >> Bluetooth incompatible with the project, or is it a just matter of
> >> removing what is not being maintained?
> >
> > I'm sure a bunch of you can come up with theories about what actually
> > transpired, without reading any of the code that used to be here, or
> > the commit messages.
> >
> > Basically, feel free to keep making up stuff.
> >
>
> I’m sorry, Theo.  I’ve read some, but I’m sure I haven’t read all the history.  I didn’t mean anything by my question, but perhaps I should have done more reading before asking.  Apologies.

Beyond the commit messages, none of us owes anyone any sort of explanation,
no matter how much it is begged for.

What bothers me greatly is the begging pattern of introducing fake
theories, and a year or so later those fake theories are used as part of
the evidence chain in a new discussion, and another few years later even
more fake discussion is used to create new fake discussion, and
eventually everyone believes parts of it.

How about if you don't know, stop making up guesses.


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Re: Bluetooth support status

John Brahy-2
Ha. I was about to start out with how I can guess how complicated managing
an operating system is. Then I see the last line of your email saying, "How
about if you don't know, stop making guesses".

My comments only apply to my experience coding for bluetooth on mobile
devices and it was just overcomplicated for me and I felt it was opening up
an unnecessary attack surface. That opinion has nothing to do with OpenBSD.

Just writing this here in case someone tries to use this in a future
conversation.







On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 10:22 AM Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Bryan Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 7, 2019, at 10:06, Theo de Raadt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bryan Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Are there technical/philosophical problems that make all versions of
> > >> Bluetooth incompatible with the project, or is it a just matter of
> > >> removing what is not being maintained?
> > >
> > > I'm sure a bunch of you can come up with theories about what actually
> > > transpired, without reading any of the code that used to be here, or
> > > the commit messages.
> > >
> > > Basically, feel free to keep making up stuff.
> > >
> >
> > I’m sorry, Theo.  I’ve read some, but I’m sure I haven’t read all the
> history.  I didn’t mean anything by my question, but perhaps I should have
> done more reading before asking.  Apologies.
>
> Beyond the commit messages, none of us owes anyone any sort of explanation,
> no matter how much it is begged for.
>
> What bothers me greatly is the begging pattern of introducing fake
> theories, and a year or so later those fake theories are used as part of
> the evidence chain in a new discussion, and another few years later even
> more fake discussion is used to create new fake discussion, and
> eventually everyone believes parts of it.
>
> How about if you don't know, stop making up guesses.
>
>
>