Because Theo and various users told them that the projects GnoBSD and Comixwall were worthless and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?

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Because Theo and various users told them that the projects GnoBSD and Comixwall were worthless and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?

français
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Re: Because Theo and various users told them that the projects GnoBSD and Comixwall were worthless and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?

Johan Petersson
Well, that might have been because we already have easy to
use firewall/router management and easy to use desktop.
This is, naturally, nothing but my own humble opinion.

With some respect /Johan Petersson

On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 3:59 PM, français <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I always find it amusing how OpenBSD is "audited", yet there's not one
> audit
> report on the OpenBSD website. The closest answer I've been able to find on
> the mailing list is to review all of the CVS commit logs. Yeah, that's not
> opaque in the slightest...
>
> The bigger problem with OpenBSD is it's community. In the FreeBSD world,
> you
> have PC-BSD and pfsense, both of which are generally welcomed by the
> community. With OpenBSD, there were two sister projects that tried to
> target
> a similar audience: GnoBSD and Comixwall. Comixwall was the equivalent of
> pfsense for easy router/firewall management and GnoBSD was an attempt to
> make an easy-to-use desktop. Both, however, ended up shutting down after
> Theo and various users told them that their projects were worthless and
> that
> they weren't contributing to OpenBSD.
>
> Because Theo and various users told them that their projects were worthless
> and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
>
http://openbsd-archive.7691.n7.nabble.com/Because-Theo-and-various-users-told
-them-that-the-projects-GnoBSD-and-Comixwall-were-worthless-and-t-tp280374.ht
ml
> Sent from the openbsd user - misc mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

jsg
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Re: Because Theo and various users told them that the projects GnoBSD and Comixwall were worthless and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?

jsg
In reply to this post by français
On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 06:59:32AM -0700, français wrote:

> I always find it amusing how OpenBSD is "audited", yet there's not one audit
> report on the OpenBSD website. The closest answer I've been able to find on
> the mailing list is to review all of the CVS commit logs. Yeah, that's not
> opaque in the slightest...
>
> The bigger problem with OpenBSD is it's community. In the FreeBSD world, you
> have PC-BSD and pfsense, both of which are generally welcomed by the
> community. With OpenBSD, there were two sister projects that tried to target
> a similar audience: GnoBSD and Comixwall. Comixwall was the equivalent of
> pfsense for easy router/firewall management and GnoBSD was an attempt to
> make an easy-to-use desktop. Both, however, ended up shutting down after
> Theo and various users told them that their projects were worthless and that
> they weren't contributing to OpenBSD.
>
> Because Theo and various users told them that their projects were worthless
> and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://openbsd-archive.7691.n7.nabble.com/Because-Theo-and-various-users-told-them-that-the-projects-GnoBSD-and-Comixwall-were-worthless-and-t-tp280374.html
> Sent from the openbsd user - misc mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>

   Well maybe!.

   Why don't you write some code instead of expressing an opinion here that won't
   get you a cup of coffee.....

   No matter what, "OpenBSD" has been providing the world a free BSD for
   a long time....Dosen't that speak for itself ?

   Do you use it? Fine contribute...If not, why waste your time here...???

   my humble opinion..

   :)

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Re: Because Theo and various users told them that the projects GnoBSD and Comixwall were worthless and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?

Jorge Castillo
Look if you don't want to use OpenBSD don't use OpenBSD. If you are so
easily swayed over just because someone said something then it's your
fault, don't blame others. I like OpenBSD and I will keep using it as long
as there are developers that keep it going. No matter what anyone tells me
I can't be persuaded to do otherwise. Have a nice day!

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Re: Because Theo and various users told them that the projects GnoBSD and Comixwall were worthless and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?

nawi
In reply to this post by français
> I always find it amusing how OpenBSD is "audited", yet there's not one
> audit
> report on the OpenBSD website. The closest answer I've been able to find
> on
> the mailing list is to review all of the CVS commit logs. Yeah, that's not
> opaque in the slightest...

Yes, thats it. The audit of the project is the reputation of Theo de Raadt
and the developers in the project. As a coder, you can look at the CVS
tree, as a none developer you have to trust the project, as you would
trust Microsoft, Apple, Ubuntu or other operating system creators.

What helps, if you get a certified by - nothing. On the project website is
a line of text kept in red - thats it. Why ? Simple because with every
change a user made to the system the audit is destroyed.

> The bigger problem with OpenBSD is it's community. In the FreeBSD world,
> you
> have PC-BSD and pfsense, both of which are generally welcomed by the
> community. With OpenBSD, there were two sister projects that tried to
> target
> a similar audience: GnoBSD and Comixwall. Comixwall was the equivalent of
> pfsense for easy router/firewall management and GnoBSD was an attempt to
> make an easy-to-use desktop. Both, however, ended up shutting down after
> Theo and various users told them that their projects were worthless and
> that
> they weren't contributing to OpenBSD.

I readed only parts of the posts but, the main reason was, that this
projects tried to use misc@ for promoting their projects. What they gave
back ... code, donations from their userbase ... I don't know. So, if they
did, it would maybe change the situation.

> Because Theo and various users told them that their projects were
> worthless
> and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?

I think worthless is the wrong word. To create a GUI installer is
something like to reinvent the wheel. A better way would be a discussion
about what people want or need. In OpenBSD are some unwritten rules - I
think. OpenBSD had no GUI installer and, will not have one ... for what,
the existing does the job well. If a user wants a GUI installer, there is
PC-BSD, Ubuntu and so on.

Gnome, many people like it and, many hate it. Whats wrong with a cool
configured fvwm ? I think, people had to re-learn functionality.

If someone wants to create a Live-CD, people could find the project using
Google.

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Re: Because Theo and various users told them that the projects GnoBSD and Comixwall were worthless and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?

Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen
In reply to this post by français
On 10/17/15 15:59, français wrote:
> I always find it amusing how OpenBSD is "audited", yet there's not one audit
> report on the OpenBSD website. The closest answer I've been able to find on
> the mailing list is to review all of the CVS commit logs. Yeah, that's not
> opaque in the slightest...

I was going to let this just pass because my day is a bit overfull
already, but I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. Note that I don't
have any formal attachment to the OpenBSD project, so what follows is my
opinion only, formed by some years of interacting with the OpenBSD
project as well as other parts of the open source world.

Your choice of words is a bit curious - 'opaque' is certainly not what I
would have called providing full access to the source code with close to
real-time access to commits as they happen, in almost all cases with
informative comments for each step. A potentially valid criticism at
some level would have been to say that this provides too much detail and
making sense of the overall picture is too hard for a newcomer.

But keep in mind that OpenBSD is developed and maintained primarily for
and by its developers, who are most certainly capable of making sense of
source code and commit logs. We all get to use the system and enjoy the
benefits, but if you're looking for a high-level executive summary style
document, that's simply not something that's useful to the project
itself. (Then again, I wouldn't be terribly surprised to find that such
documents have been produced for their own internal use by organizations
that were considering implementing OpenBSD in their systems.) You will
find quite a few summaries of work done and planned at various stages in
the papers and presentations collection http://www.openbsd.org/papers/,
some of them may even be high level enough to give the less tech minded
some idea of the overall work.

And of course, by now we're looking back at a full 20 years of work, so
even a very high level executive summary would either need to be quite a
few pages or be essentially useless handwaving.

That said, if reading commit logs and source code (even via the friendly
cvsweb interface http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/) is too much
work, start with the papers and presentations at
http://www.openbsd.org/papers/.

> The bigger problem with OpenBSD is it's community. In the FreeBSD world, you
> have PC-BSD and pfsense, both of which are generally welcomed by the
> community. With OpenBSD, there were two sister projects that tried to target
> a similar audience: GnoBSD and Comixwall. Comixwall was the equivalent of
> pfsense for easy router/firewall management and GnoBSD was an attempt to
> make an easy-to-use desktop. Both, however, ended up shutting down after
> Theo and various users told them that their projects were worthless and that
> they weren't contributing to OpenBSD.
>
> Because Theo and various users told them that their projects were worthless
> and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?

If OpenBSD users and developers said that these projects were useless
and that the people behind them were not contributing back to OpenBSD,
maybe that was the (possibly unpleasant to some) truth?

It's been a while since both and I can't be bothered right now to look
things up, but I can say this: I have yet to find a web interface to
firewalls adminstration that I personally found useful, and barring
exotic hardware trouble, I can get a useful desktop with OpenBSD up and
running within 20 minutes from bare metal, and it's a reasonable
assumption that most misc@ posters know enough pkg_add and package names
to do the same.

So essentially the projects were packaging of something that was either
trivial or not needed (or actively harmful, depending on who you ask),
and if the people marketing these trivial efforts were seen to be
unlikely to maintain a healthy relationship to their upstream project, I
would call them useless too.

If you're doing a derivative of an open source project, keeping a sane
relationship to your upstream is is an essential part of your self
preservation. If those derivative projects were run by people who didn't
see that fairly basic fact, that's their loss, not ours.

--
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.

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Re: Because Theo and various users told them that the projects GnoBSD and Comixwall were worthless and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?

Kevin Gerrard
> Im going to chime in here a second, even though it probably is not my
> place.
>
> I am not a network guru, or computer wizard. I have made a living for
> the last 5 years by networking. We use nothing but OpenBSD routers for
this.

> With the help of the community I have been able to learn and market a
> superb firewall/router for clients. Some versions are many years old
> and still out there running for that client. Try doing that with
> Cisco.... (lol) we will not go into the differences there....
> Kudos to this community for the help they provide...You show up in a
> forum or community and complain, whine and bitch about things that
> have to do with the community or project. Why do you waste your time
> here and the leaders of this forum. NOBODY is making you use OpenBSD
> and NOBODY wants to hear the bashing of their community within the
> city limits.
> This might sound harsh but people that go into a community or group
> and start whining should be shot. This is the problem with America
> today. One person is moving into a city and trying to make that city
> conform to that one person's ways and beliefs.... Seems to me the city
> should be able to shoot that person.
> What you are doing is just like if I was to go into Cisco Forums or
> Communities and start bashing and beating on the company and leaders
> in the forum.....Winks.... Do you think they would really care....
> Humor in this is what I see, not a valid user with a valid complaint
> about anything that is worth listening to ....
>
> My two cents worth, I will not respond again to this thread.
>
> Written by a cowboy wannabe that couldn’t make money doing it, now a
> half assed networking tech making money....

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Peter N. M. Hansteen
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 6:51 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Because Theo and various users told them that the projects
GnoBSD and Comixwall were worthless and that they weren't contributing to
OpenBSD?

On 10/17/15 15:59, français wrote:
> I always find it amusing how OpenBSD is "audited", yet there's not one
> audit report on the OpenBSD website. The closest answer I've been able
> to find on the mailing list is to review all of the CVS commit logs.
> Yeah, that's not opaque in the slightest...

I was going to let this just pass because my day is a bit overfull already,
but I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. Note that I don't have any formal
attachment to the OpenBSD project, so what follows is my opinion only,
formed by some years of interacting with the OpenBSD project as well as
other parts of the open source world.

Your choice of words is a bit curious - 'opaque' is certainly not what I
would have called providing full access to the source code with close to
real-time access to commits as they happen, in almost all cases with
informative comments for each step. A potentially valid criticism at some
level would have been to say that this provides too much detail and making
sense of the overall picture is too hard for a newcomer.

But keep in mind that OpenBSD is developed and maintained primarily for and
by its developers, who are most certainly capable of making sense of source
code and commit logs. We all get to use the system and enjoy the benefits,
but if you're looking for a high-level executive summary style document,
that's simply not something that's useful to the project itself. (Then
again, I wouldn't be terribly surprised to find that such documents have
been produced for their own internal use by organizations that were
considering implementing OpenBSD in their systems.) You will find quite a
few summaries of work done and planned at various stages in the papers and
presentations collection http://www.openbsd.org/papers/, some of them may
even be high level enough to give the less tech minded some idea of the
overall work.

And of course, by now we're looking back at a full 20 years of work, so even
a very high level executive summary would either need to be quite a few
pages or be essentially useless handwaving.

That said, if reading commit logs and source code (even via the friendly
cvsweb interface http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/) is too much
work, start with the papers and presentations at
http://www.openbsd.org/papers/.

> The bigger problem with OpenBSD is it's community. In the FreeBSD
> world, you have PC-BSD and pfsense, both of which are generally
> welcomed by the community. With OpenBSD, there were two sister
> projects that tried to target a similar audience: GnoBSD and
> Comixwall. Comixwall was the equivalent of pfsense for easy
> router/firewall management and GnoBSD was an attempt to make an
> easy-to-use desktop. Both, however, ended up shutting down after Theo
> and various users told them that their projects were worthless and that
they weren't contributing to OpenBSD.
>
> Because Theo and various users told them that their projects were
> worthless and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?

If OpenBSD users and developers said that these projects were useless and
that the people behind them were not contributing back to OpenBSD, maybe
that was the (possibly unpleasant to some) truth?

It's been a while since both and I can't be bothered right now to look
things up, but I can say this: I have yet to find a web interface to
firewalls adminstration that I personally found useful, and barring exotic
hardware trouble, I can get a useful desktop with OpenBSD up and running
within 20 minutes from bare metal, and it's a reasonable assumption that
most misc@ posters know enough pkg_add and package names to do the same.

So essentially the projects were packaging of something that was either
trivial or not needed (or actively harmful, depending on who you ask), and
if the people marketing these trivial efforts were seen to be unlikely to
maintain a healthy relationship to their upstream project, I would call them
useless too.

If you're doing a derivative of an open source project, keeping a sane
relationship to your upstream is is an essential part of your self
preservation. If those derivative projects were run by people who didn't see
that fairly basic fact, that's their loss, not ours.

--
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.

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Re: Because Theo and various users told them that the projects GnoBSD and Comixwall were worthless and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?

patric conant
On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Kevin Gerrard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > Im going to chime in here a second, even though it probably is not my
> > place.
> >
> > I am not a network guru, or computer wizard. I have made a living for
> > the last 5 years by networking. We use nothing but OpenBSD routers for
> this.
> > With the help of the community I have been able to learn and market a
> > superb firewall/router for clients. Some versions are many years old
> > and still out there running for that client. Try doing that with
> > Cisco.... (lol) we will not go into the differences there....
> > Kudos to this community for the help they provide...You show up in a
> > forum or community and complain, whine and bitch about things that
> > have to do with the community or project. Why do you waste your time
> > here and the leaders of this forum. NOBODY is making you use OpenBSD
> > and NOBODY wants to hear the bashing of their community within the
> > city limits.
> > This might sound harsh but people that go into a community or group
> > and start whining should be shot. This is the problem with America
> > today. One person is moving into a city and trying to make that city
> > conform to that one person's ways and beliefs.... Seems to me the city
> > should be able to shoot that person.
> > What you are doing is just like if I was to go into Cisco Forums or
> > Communities and start bashing and beating on the company and leaders
> > in the forum.....Winks.... Do you think they would really care....
> > Humor in this is what I see, not a valid user with a valid complaint
> > about anything that is worth listening to ....
> >
> > My two cents worth, I will not respond again to this thread.
> >
> > Written by a cowboy wannabe that couldn’t make money doing it, now a
> > half assed networking tech making money....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Peter N. M. Hansteen
> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 6:51 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Because Theo and various users told them that the projects
> GnoBSD and Comixwall were worthless and that they weren't contributing to
> OpenBSD?
>
> On 10/17/15 15:59, français wrote:
> > I always find it amusing how OpenBSD is "audited", yet there's not one
> > audit report on the OpenBSD website. The closest answer I've been able
> > to find on the mailing list is to review all of the CVS commit logs.
> > Yeah, that's not opaque in the slightest...
>
> I was going to let this just pass because my day is a bit overfull already,
> but I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. Note that I don't have any formal
> attachment to the OpenBSD project, so what follows is my opinion only,
> formed by some years of interacting with the OpenBSD project as well as
> other parts of the open source world.
>
> Your choice of words is a bit curious - 'opaque' is certainly not what I
> would have called providing full access to the source code with close to
> real-time access to commits as they happen, in almost all cases with
> informative comments for each step. A potentially valid criticism at some
> level would have been to say that this provides too much detail and making
> sense of the overall picture is too hard for a newcomer.
>
> But keep in mind that OpenBSD is developed and maintained primarily for and
> by its developers, who are most certainly capable of making sense of source
> code and commit logs. We all get to use the system and enjoy the benefits,
> but if you're looking for a high-level executive summary style document,
> that's simply not something that's useful to the project itself. (Then
> again, I wouldn't be terribly surprised to find that such documents have
> been produced for their own internal use by organizations that were
> considering implementing OpenBSD in their systems.) You will find quite a
> few summaries of work done and planned at various stages in the papers and
> presentations collection http://www.openbsd.org/papers/, some of them may
> even be high level enough to give the less tech minded some idea of the
> overall work.
>
> And of course, by now we're looking back at a full 20 years of work, so
> even
> a very high level executive summary would either need to be quite a few
> pages or be essentially useless handwaving.
>
> That said, if reading commit logs and source code (even via the friendly
> cvsweb interface http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/) is too much
> work, start with the papers and presentations at
> http://www.openbsd.org/papers/.
>
> > The bigger problem with OpenBSD is it's community. In the FreeBSD
> > world, you have PC-BSD and pfsense, both of which are generally
> > welcomed by the community. With OpenBSD, there were two sister
> > projects that tried to target a similar audience: GnoBSD and
> > Comixwall. Comixwall was the equivalent of pfsense for easy
> > router/firewall management and GnoBSD was an attempt to make an
> > easy-to-use desktop. Both, however, ended up shutting down after Theo
> > and various users told them that their projects were worthless and that
> they weren't contributing to OpenBSD.
> >
> > Because Theo and various users told them that their projects were
> > worthless and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?
>
> If OpenBSD users and developers said that these projects were useless and
> that the people behind them were not contributing back to OpenBSD, maybe
> that was the (possibly unpleasant to some) truth?
>
> It's been a while since both and I can't be bothered right now to look
> things up, but I can say this: I have yet to find a web interface to
> firewalls adminstration that I personally found useful, and barring exotic
> hardware trouble, I can get a useful desktop with OpenBSD up and running
> within 20 minutes from bare metal, and it's a reasonable assumption that
> most misc@ posters know enough pkg_add and package names to do the same.
>
> So essentially the projects were packaging of something that was either
> trivial or not needed (or actively harmful, depending on who you ask), and
> if the people marketing these trivial efforts were seen to be unlikely to
> maintain a healthy relationship to their upstream project, I would call
> them
> useless too.
>
> If you're doing a derivative of an open source project, keeping a sane
> relationship to your upstream is is an essential part of your self
> preservation. If those derivative projects were run by people who didn't
> see
> that fairly basic fact, that's their loss, not ours.
>
> --
> Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
> http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
> "Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
> delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
>
>
This is non-sense causality. Comixwall and GnoBSD are presented as being
comparable to PC-BSD and pfsense, which they aren't. And then some share of
the blame for Comixwall and GnoBSD's infant death is tied to caustic
statements made on misc about them. PC-BSD is a project taken up initially
and most commonly by FreeBSD committers, active ones at that. If Comixwall
and GnoBSD could be stopped by a few negative comments on misc, they didn't
have anywhere near the momentum needed to be successful open source
projects. FreeBSD and Linux have a different brand of toxic communities
around them, that cater to interests outside the stated goals of OpenBSD.
Fine, when that benefits everyone, but largely they just make fettered junk
that no one outside their ecosystems can take advantage of. FreeBSD is
putting tons of effort into ZFS, a nightmare of licensing that no one
understands, just to get a filesystem that really needs a ratio greater
than 5 to 1000 between ram (ECC) and storage, which is really silly. I
don't think anyone has a problem being a downstream project of OpenBSD, I
believe that both bitrig and mirBSD are successful in that space, and it's
really okay if OpenBSD is the project that's not a good candidate for
PHP-ization of the core OS. This unique community achieves some very
interesting unique milestones, let's call that a win for everyone.

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Re: Because Theo and various users told them that the projects GnoBSD and Comixwall were worthless and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?

Delan Azabani
You only need a great deal of memory if you wish to use deduplication,
which is an optional ZFS feature that some people consider worth the
cost. While the complexity and licensing of ZFS make it inappropriate
for inclusion in OpenBSD, at least in the near future, let's not throw
around insults as if OpenBSD is the only useful OS out there.

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Re: Because Theo and various users told them that the projects GnoBSD and Comixwall were worthless and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?

Denis Fondras
In reply to this post by Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen
> Both, however, ended up shutting down after Theo and various users told them
> that their projects were worthless and that they weren't contributing to
> OpenBSD.
>

I guess they didn't strongly believe in their added value if they cancelled the
project after someone told them it was not worth.

BTW, if you are looking for a fw GUI, you can ask Esdenera
(https://www.esdenera.com).

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Re: Because Theo and various users told them that the projects GnoBSD and Comixwall were worthless and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?

Marc Espie-2
In reply to this post by français
On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 06:59:32AM -0700, français wrote:
> I always find it amusing how OpenBSD is "audited", yet there's not one audit
> report on the OpenBSD website. The closest answer I've been able to find on
> the mailing list is to review all of the CVS commit logs. Yeah, that's not
> opaque in the slightest...

No it's not.

It's not sugar-coated for dumb-asses such as yourself, but the development
process is certainly open and documented.  A lot of stuff actually goes
through the mailing-lists (tech@ and ports@ mostly).

We don't have a PR department. We don't have people that make tutorial-level
explanations about what's going on.

OpenBSD developers are quite present at various conferences. You want to
know what's going on ? just catch up on eurobsdcon/asiabsd/bsdcan.

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Re: Because Theo and various users told them that the projects GnoBSD and Comixwall were worthless and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?

Dan Farrell-2
In reply to this post by français
I'd like to correct the record here, because you're Misrepresenting with a
capital "M":

Comixwall shut down beacuse Soner Tari, the guy who put it all together,
got butt-hurt after unsuccessfully trying to advertise his project on this
mailing list. Theo's apparent tough-reply was enough to make this guy
cancel his own project entirely. He literally melted down, took his toys
back home, and was never heard from again. Does that sound like a project
you would trust your home network to, much less your day-job-network?

Imagine if it were 'okay' for calomel to advertise here? If you don't
understand the question, you have some learning to do in this subject.

In light of all of this, now maybe do you think the philosophy about not
letting every tom-dick-n-harry advertising their projects here makes sense?


Very Sincerely,

Dan Farrell

On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 9:59 AM, français <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I always find it amusing how OpenBSD is "audited", yet there's not one
> audit
> report on the OpenBSD website. The closest answer I've been able to find on
> the mailing list is to review all of the CVS commit logs. Yeah, that's not
> opaque in the slightest...
>
> The bigger problem with OpenBSD is it's community. In the FreeBSD world,
> you
> have PC-BSD and pfsense, both of which are generally welcomed by the
> community. With OpenBSD, there were two sister projects that tried to
> target
> a similar audience: GnoBSD and Comixwall. Comixwall was the equivalent of
> pfsense for easy router/firewall management and GnoBSD was an attempt to
> make an easy-to-use desktop. Both, however, ended up shutting down after
> Theo and various users told them that their projects were worthless and
> that
> they weren't contributing to OpenBSD.
>
> Because Theo and various users told them that their projects were worthless
> and that they weren't contributing to OpenBSD?
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
>
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-them-that-the-projects-GnoBSD-and-Comixwall-were-worthless-and-t-tp280374.ht
ml
> Sent from the openbsd user - misc mailing list archive at Nabble.com.