4.6 arriving

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4.6 arriving

Dave Anderson-4
The CD set showed up in today's mail (near Boston, Mass.)

        Dave

--
Dave Anderson
<[hidden email]>

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Re: 4.6 arriving

patrick keshishian
On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Dave Anderson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The CD set showed up in today's mail (near Boston, Mass.)
>
>        Dave

I received ship notice this morning. So, after all, Oct 1st (-ish) did
end up to be the release date(?).

--patrick

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Re: 4.6 arriving

Theo de Raadt
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Dave Anderson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > The CD set showed up in today's mail (near Boston, Mass.)
> >
> >        Dave
>
> I received ship notice this morning. So, after all, Oct 1st (-ish) did
> end up to be the release date(?).

Every release, we have tried to ship the CDs before the actual release date
so that a large fraction of our users get them just bnfore the release date.

We may have to open up the FTP servers slightly before November, to
satisfy the users who purchased CDs and who now find themselves
without a full set of 'packages'.. we will try to figure out what day.

But we won't open up the ftp servers today.  I want a sizeable percentage of
purchasers to receive their product first.

So we'll see how it goes.

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Re: 4.6 arriving

Rod Dorman
On Friday, October 2, 2009, 15:37:19, Theo de Raadt wrote:

>   ...
> Every release, we have tried to ship the CDs before the actual release date
> so that a large fraction of our users get them just bnfore the release date.
>
> We may have to open up the FTP servers slightly before November, to
> satisfy the users who purchased CDs and who now find themselves
> without a full set of 'packages'.. we will try to figure out what day.
>
> But we won't open up the ftp servers today.  I want a sizeable percentage of
> purchasers to receive their product first.

Is setting a password on the new package hierarchy and including the
password with the CD feasible or desired?

--
[hidden email]     "The avalanche has already started, it is too
Rod Dorman              late for the pebbles to vote." - Ambassador Kosh

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Re: 4.6 arriving

Theo de Raadt
> > But we won't open up the ftp servers today.  I want a sizeable percentage of
> > purchasers to receive their product first.
>
> Is setting a password on the new package hierarchy and including the
> password with the CD feasible or desired?

I don't see any benefit to that.

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Re: 4.6 arriving

Theo de Raadt
In reply to this post by Rod Dorman
> > But we won't open up the ftp servers today.  I want a sizeable percentage of
> > purchasers to receive their product first.
>
> Is setting a password on the new package hierarchy and including the
> password with the CD feasible or desired?

Actually, I want to be a bit more long winded about this.

Have you thought this through, at all?

So we should go out and talk to all the ftp server admins, and have
them set this up?

OK, let's skip that, since it is too much work for PEOPLE WHO
VOLUNTEER THEIR BANDWIDTH FOR YOU AND I AND EVERYONE ELSE.

So, we'll set it up on only a few special ftp servers, and then they
will get slammed off the internet when someone leaks that password.

Yeah, that will sure encourage continued support from PEOPLE WHO
VOLUNTEER THEIR BANDWIDTH FOR YOU AND I AND EVERYONE ELSE.

So... did you think it through, or as is so typical these days, did
you only think of yourself?

For instance, OpenSSH hit it's 10 year and a total of 16 people
donated in the last 48 hours.  $1000 collected because of such a
special occasion really is not going go to far.  If $1000 is collected
for such a special occasion, can anyone guess what the total is for a
year?  How do hackathons get run?  Where does the magic come from?

It's just another example of everyone only thinking of themselves,
more so these days.

Some days I want to just quit and say fuck it all.

You, members of the world, deserve to live in the filth of telnet.

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Re: 4.6 arriving

Nate Schmoll
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
Why don't we just wait until the packages are officially available  
from the team? I'm pretty sure it will be before or on the documented  
release date.  Exclusivity is quite contradictory to the project's  
objectives.

On Oct 2, 2009, at 11:06 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote:

>>> But we won't open up the ftp servers today.  I want a sizeable  
>>> percentage of
>>> purchasers to receive their product first.
>>
>> Is setting a password on the new package hierarchy and including the
>> password with the CD feasible or desired?
>
> I don't see any benefit to that.

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Re: 4.6 arriving

William Boshuck
In reply to this post by Rod Dorman
> Is setting a password on the new package hierarchy and including
> the password with the CD feasible or desired?

This kind of thread makes me want to chew my teeth.

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Re: 4.6 arriving

Vadim Zhukov
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
On 2 October 2009 G. 23:37:19 you wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Dave Anderson
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> > > The CD set showed up in today's mail (near Boston, Mass.)
> > >
> > >        Dave
> >
> > I received ship notice this morning. So, after all, Oct 1st (-ish)
> > did end up to be the release date(?).
>
> Every release, we have tried to ship the CDs before the actual release
> date so that a large fraction of our users get them just bnfore the
> release date.
>
> We may have to open up the FTP servers slightly before November, to
> satisfy the users who purchased CDs and who now find themselves
> without a full set of 'packages'.. we will try to figure out what day.
>
> But we won't open up the ftp servers today.  I want a sizeable
> percentage of purchasers to receive their product first.
>
> So we'll see how it goes.

Maybe then open packages directory only, and leave base closed until
release date?

--
  Best wishes,
    Vadim Zhukov

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

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Re: 4.6 arriving

Rod Dorman
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
On Saturday, October 3, 2009, 02:13:51, Theo de Raadt wrote:
>>> But we won't open up the ftp servers today.  I want a sizeable percentage of
>>> purchasers to receive their product first.
>>
>> Is setting a password on the new package hierarchy and including the
>> password with the CD feasible or desired?
>
> Actually, I want to be a bit more long winded about this.
> Have you thought this through, at all?

Nope, not  at  all.  It was just an idea tossed out to:
  - see if it had any merit
  - perhaps spark some other thoughts on how to increase CD purchases
  - or to get flamed

Its obvious which one you chose.

--
[hidden email]     "The avalanche has already started, it is too
Rod Dorman              late for the pebbles to vote." - Ambassador Kosh

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Re: 4.6 arriving

Theo de Raadt
> On Saturday, October 3, 2009, 02:13:51, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> >>> But we won't open up the ftp servers today.  I want a sizeable percentage of
> >>> purchasers to receive their product first.
> >>
> >> Is setting a password on the new package hierarchy and including the
> >> password with the CD feasible or desired?
> >
> > Actually, I want to be a bit more long winded about this.
> > Have you thought this through, at all?
>
> Nope, not  at  all.  It was just an idea tossed out to:
>   - see if it had any merit
>   - perhaps spark some other thoughts on how to increase CD purchases
>   - or to get flamed
>
> Its obvious which one you chose.

I don't believe you.  You suggested it because you only thought of
your own benefit, not of the amount of work others would have to do.

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Re: 4.6 arriving

Brad Tilley-4
In reply to this post by Rod Dorman
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 12:08 AM, Rod Dorman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Is setting a password on the new package hierarchy and including the
> password with the CD feasible or desired?

Use ports. They work great. The only area I have issues with ports are
on under-powered netbooks... takes forever to compile, otherwise no
problems.

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Re: 4.6 arriving

William Boshuck
In reply to this post by Rod Dorman
On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 01:26:56PM -0400, Rod Dorman wrote:
> On Saturday, October 3, 2009, 02:13:51, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> > Have you thought this through, at all?
>
> Nope, not  at  all.

You might find the list rather unreceptive to the
whistling that results when you unplug both ears.

> It was just an idea tossed out

Without a moment's reflection, and with nothing but a
'me me me me me' attitude aimed at nothing but trying
to screw ever and ever more out of generous volunteers.

This just gives users a bad name.

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Re: 4.6 arriving

nuffnough
In reply to this post by Theo de Raadt
>> Nope, not B at B all. B It was just an idea tossed out to:
>> B  - see if it had any merit
>> B  - perhaps spark some other thoughts on how to increase CD purchases
>> B  - or to get flamed
>>
>> Its obvious which one you chose.
>
> I don't believe you. B You suggested it because you only thought of
> your own benefit, not of the amount of work others would have to do.

Perhaps not everyone who uses OpenBSD has your depth of understanding
of all these processes, Theo.  You're obviously intimately acquainted
with them,  but it is possible Rod might not have been.

You make very salient points about the suggestion being completely
unfeasable, but it seems quite possible that Rod thought he was making
a simple suggestion to solve a perceived problem.  Reading between the
lines,  it seems likely that Rod is also a subscriber to the disc set
and might perhaps feel a little taken aback at the vehemence of the
response.

And yes,  it might be that he's just some schmoe with a mate who's
gonna give him this password he's suggesting...  But to assume that
would also assume a much greater depth of thought than you've
otherwise attributed.

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Re: 4.6 arriving

Theo de Raadt
> >> Nope, not B at B all. B It was just an idea tossed out to:
> >> B  - see if it had any merit
> >> B  - perhaps spark some other thoughts on how to increase CD purchases
> >> B  - or to get flamed
> >>
> >> Its obvious which one you chose.
> >
> > I don't believe you. B You suggested it because you only thought of
> > your own benefit, not of the amount of work others would have to do.
>
> Perhaps not everyone who uses OpenBSD has your depth of understanding
> of all these processes, Theo.  You're obviously intimately acquainted
> with them,  but it is possible Rod might not have been.
>
> You make very salient points about the suggestion being completely
> unfeasable, but it seems quite possible that Rod thought he was making
> a simple suggestion to solve a perceived problem.  Reading between the
> lines,  it seems likely that Rod is also a subscriber to the disc set
> and might perhaps feel a little taken aback at the vehemence of the
> response.
>
> And yes,  it might be that he's just some schmoe with a mate who's
> gonna give him this password he's suggesting...  But to assume that
> would also assume a much greater depth of thought than you've
> otherwise attributed.

You're right.  Everything else which we do is so complicated, so why
can't we coordinate 50+ people we don't know to setup special accounts
on their ftp servers.  Why can't we do something so trivial?  Must be
simple resistance.

Or we must be utterly incompetent morons to not be able to do that!
Good god! We're such morons, why trust us for anything at all.

I am just plain fed up with the bullshit you cowards spew.

CPB
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Re: 4.6 arriving

CPB
Theo de Raadt wrote:

>>>> Nope, not B at B all. B It was just an idea tossed out to:
>>>> B  - see if it had any merit
>>>> B  - perhaps spark some other thoughts on how to increase CD purchases
>>>> B  - or to get flamed
>>>>
>>>> Its obvious which one you chose.
>>>>        
>>> I don't believe you. B You suggested it because you only thought of
>>> your own benefit, not of the amount of work others would have to do.
>>>      
>> Perhaps not everyone who uses OpenBSD has your depth of understanding
>> of all these processes, Theo.  You're obviously intimately acquainted
>> with them,  but it is possible Rod might not have been.
>>
>> You make very salient points about the suggestion being completely
>> unfeasable, but it seems quite possible that Rod thought he was making
>> a simple suggestion to solve a perceived problem.  Reading between the
>> lines,  it seems likely that Rod is also a subscriber to the disc set
>> and might perhaps feel a little taken aback at the vehemence of the
>> response.
>>
>> And yes,  it might be that he's just some schmoe with a mate who's
>> gonna give him this password he's suggesting...  But to assume that
>> would also assume a much greater depth of thought than you've
>> otherwise attributed.
>>    
>
> You're right.  Everything else which we do is so complicated, so why
> can't we coordinate 50+ people we don't know to setup special accounts
> on their ftp servers.  Why can't we do something so trivial?  Must be
> simple resistance.
>
> Or we must be utterly incompetent morons to not be able to do that!
> Good god! We're such morons, why trust us for anything at all.
>
> I am just plain fed up with the bullshit you cowards spew.
>
>
>  
Well, I just don't care when you let it out.
Wait another month if you want to.

I only run official releases on my server, and 4.5, 4.4, 4.3, 4.2 and
4.1 never seemed even slightly "broken" to me!

Things will be better with 4.6. Looking forward to it.
But if someone simply MUST have a new feature, -current works just fine
on my desktop.

Thanks Theo and developers!

Chris Bennett

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Re: 4.6 arriving

Aaron Mason
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 9:07 PM, Chris Bennett
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Theo de Raadt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope, not B at B all. B It was just an idea tossed out to:
>>>>> B  - see if it had any merit
>>>>> B  - perhaps spark some other thoughts on how to increase CD purchases
>>>>> B  - or to get flamed
>>>>>
>>>>> Its obvious which one you chose.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't believe you. B You suggested it because you only thought of
>>>> your own benefit, not of the amount of work others would have to do.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps not everyone who uses OpenBSD has your depth of understanding
>>> of all these processes, Theo.  You're obviously intimately acquainted
>>> with them,  but it is possible Rod might not have been.
>>>
>>> You make very salient points about the suggestion being completely
>>> unfeasable, but it seems quite possible that Rod thought he was making
>>> a simple suggestion to solve a perceived problem.  Reading between the
>>> lines,  it seems likely that Rod is also a subscriber to the disc set
>>> and might perhaps feel a little taken aback at the vehemence of the
>>> response.
>>>
>>> And yes,  it might be that he's just some schmoe with a mate who's
>>> gonna give him this password he's suggesting...  But to assume that
>>> would also assume a much greater depth of thought than you've
>>> otherwise attributed.
>>>
>>
>> You're right.  Everything else which we do is so complicated, so why
>> can't we coordinate 50+ people we don't know to setup special accounts
>> on their ftp servers.  Why can't we do something so trivial?  Must be
>> simple resistance.
>>
>> Or we must be utterly incompetent morons to not be able to do that!
>> Good god! We're such morons, why trust us for anything at all.
>>
>> I am just plain fed up with the bullshit you cowards spew.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Well, I just don't care when you let it out.
> Wait another month if you want to.
>
> I only run official releases on my server, and 4.5, 4.4, 4.3, 4.2 and 4.1
> never seemed even slightly "broken" to me!
>
> Things will be better with 4.6. Looking forward to it.
> But if someone simply MUST have a new feature, -current works just fine on
> my desktop.
>
> Thanks Theo and developers!
>
> Chris Bennett
>
>

I've never had a production version of OpenBSD crash for something
that wasn't my fault or due to unsupported hardware.  That's a
testament to OpenBSD's stability and the quality of the work.

I certainly agree with Theo on this one - when you start hiding
things, people find ways around.  Look at the number of WGA hacks on
the Internet - it's because Microsoft sought to proactively protect
their IP by blocking it from undesirable people.  Such efforts served
only to make such undesirables try harder, and when they apply this
kind of passion 99% of the time they will succeed - even if you change
it again it will again be broken.

Microsoft jacked up their prices - people stopped paying and started
pirating.  Microsoft put blocks on their software in an attempt to
prevent piracy, the pirates tried harder.  Building walls to keep
people in only serves to make them try harder to get over them.  Make
a system impenetrable to pirates, and a better pirate will come along
and break it, and all they have to do is share this solution to make
your "impenetrable" system useless.  There's always a bigger fish, and
if you keep trying to block them, you'll end up in an endless arms
race against them.  It doesn't get any simpler than that.

Kudos to Theo and the team for sticking to their principles and
releasing a fully functional OS without restrictions, without
barriers, without any form of encumberment.  I will buy a CD set when
my finances allow me to, you have my word.

Thanks for being awesome.

--
Aaron Mason - Programmer, open source addict
- Oh, why does everything I whip leave me?

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Re: 4.6 arriving

Todd Alan Smith-3
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Aaron Mason <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I will buy a CD set when my finances allow me to, you have my word.

Dude, it's $50. You could've made that in the time it took you to
compose your email.

I'm just sayin'.

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Re: 4.6 arriving

Jeremy Chase
Todd,
Not everyone has so many clients that they can work at any time to earn more
money. You don't know Aaron's financial situation, and I think your
assumptions incredibly insulting. $50 may be pocket change to you, but for
someone struggling to find money for rent, it is a lot.

-Jeremy

--
Jeremy Chase, N1JER
http://weatherfinder.info/



On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Todd Alan Smith <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Aaron Mason <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > I will buy a CD set when my finances allow me to, you have my word.
>
> Dude, it's $50. You could've made that in the time it took you to
> compose your email.
>
> I'm just sayin'.

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Re: 4.6 arriving

Aaron Mason
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Jeremy Chase <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Todd,
> Not everyone has so many clients that they can work at any time to earn more
> money. You don't know Aaron's financial situation, and I think your
> assumptions incredibly insulting. $50 may be pocket change to you, but for
> someone struggling to find money for rent, it is a lot.
>
> -Jeremy
> --
> Jeremy Chase, N1JER
> http://weatherfinder.info/
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Todd Alan Smith
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Aaron Mason <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > I will buy a CD set when my finances allow me to, you have my word.
>>
>> Dude, it's $50. You could've made that in the time it took you to
>> compose your email.
>>
>> I'm just sayin'.
>>
>
>

I'm also tied to a budget - my partner and I are getting married and
therefore saving for that takes priority.  Hopefully I'll have a full
time job soon and will have a little more money to throw around.

--
Aaron Mason - Programmer, open source addict
- Oh, why does everything I whip leave me?

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